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| What would you pay for a breeding? |
| Current, 12k (6k per parent) |
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40% |
[ 43 ] |
| 13k-25k (total) |
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23% |
[ 25 ] |
| 26k-50k |
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20% |
[ 22 ] |
| 51k-100k |
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12% |
[ 13 ] |
| Other? Post please! |
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2% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 106 |
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 Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:35 pm
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Totally not going to bother reading the rest of this thread given the few posts above me and the assumption it is not necessary to do so.
Going along with a basic reading of the proposed idea and the cooler-head suggestions of those above (notably Sabin) I'm so down with the theory of a price hike. (And not a wimpy one, I'd actually be talking the original 500k+) Would it be easy for me to meet? No, no it won't... but if saving up the funds and paying more does increase my chances of getting baskets for a pair I have plots for... yeah I'd pay for that. I really would. I equate it to spending more on a nice laptop as opposed to a cheap piece of crap just so I have a laptop. You pay for quality and quality isn't cheap.
If I may be candid, were this shop an enterprise based on giving things away for free/reduced, they would have 499857698457 colorists and little to no standards when it comes to coloring. The auctions wouldn't rocket into outer space, customs wouldn't regularly have multiple entries for pets costing upwards of 4 million, and breeding openings wouldn't see 7+ pages of entries. As Sabin mentioned, this shop has serious supply meeting demand issues on all fronts, and how the staff decide to deal with that is completely up to them. (If they even do, it may not actually be bad business to keep it as-is.)
Riding on that, I don't actually think increasing breeding costs would help much. Primary issue remains the sheer number of entries per slot opening, bottle-necking entries via the price hike may work for the first round of openings, but with gold being so easy to get, they would return soon enough. And people would be even angrier because now they are waiting a year on a slot and are willing to pay 500k for it. But this part is pure conjecture, people very well may be turned off by the notion of 500k breedings and abandon the shop in droves!
So all in all, while I may in theory support this measure, I don't actually think it would work long term and hope instead that the demand is met in some other way. I've been around awhile and have seen a lot of changes here, and by far the most apparent is the serious lack of slots vs customer count.
My belated lurker 2 cents~
(Also, lol guys. Don't get so mad~! <333)
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Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:16 pm
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If prices did get increased to 500k a pop then quality as well as .. um.. speed? i guess should be something that colourists take into consideration.
Don't get me wrong, I understand RL happens and so long as a colourist makes note of this and gives the customers the option of transferring after the right amount of time has passed, then I see no problem with that.
But, if we end up forking out 500k for a breeding, we shouldn't have to wait months and months for baskets and then months and months for poppings.
I feel like it should be a rule that all stages of a breeding are done before the baskets are dropped. I get that it may take more time, but if a colourist suddenly has RL issues or what have you, at least another colourist can drop the growings on time. I'd much rather wait a little extra time for a basket and get the other stages on time than have one stage and spend forever waiting on the other(s).
I said it before, I'll say it again. if breeding prices are put up. Fine. So be it. But it should be flat out across the board, not a tiered system. There aren't really any pros for a tiered system other than those that benefit the colurists and, as Mobbu has pointed out, everything that is done is done for the customers, more so than the colourists.
However, a tiered system of prices has quite a few of cons.
+ It creates more work for the already strained staffers.
+ It creates a big issue with 'he said, she said' where as one colourist might say x pony is minor edited and another colourist might consider it moderate. Thus, if said soquili is deemed minor by.. whatever staffer would label edits and the colourist who deems it minor then rolls it has to breed it. What if they're not comfortable with moderate edits? What if they can't pull off this breeding in a reasonable time frame because of said edits? It just creates more stress for them.
+ It increases the already large divide between those who have edited soq and those who have unedited soq. (though this is mostly if the price difference between unedit and edited soq is significantly larger). If breeding an unedited soq, for example costs.. 50k per parent and an extreme edited mutant (for example, my tree soq) is.. 500k per parent.. There's going to be a lot more of edited soq breeding with edited soq only. There's already a lot of that and I know I've been guilty of it myself with certain soq. But if the price was tiered and the difference ridiculous, I would probably never breed an edited soq (that is, an extremely edited soq or a mutant) with an unedited. :/
+ More that I can't think of but have been posted on previous pages.
Now, I do believe that colourists do a lot of work with a little amount of payment. However, I don't think breedings should cost as much as customs or even close to. You don't get to customize anything. You don't get to give your soquili all the edits you like. It's a gamble. Albeit, one that almost always ends up with fantastic results. However, there are times when you may not have gotten a certain edit you were hoping for a child to have. Or a certain breed trait. Or a certain gender. or just anything in general. Breedings costing 100K+ per parent are going to result in a lot less newbies, too. Because who wants to invest that much money on a risk like gifting to a newbie who may or may not stick around?
As it is, I think most of the negativity of rising prices in this thread comes from the lack of slots. And I completely agree with that. Who wants to raise prices for something we don't even have on a regular basis? Staff have provided valid reasons for the lack of slots (issues behind the scenes, back log of work from other colourists, training new staff). But, I, like many others, despite these reasons, still dislike the fact that there haven't been any slots (event slots aside). I think before even considering rising the prices for breedings, we at least need to have breedings on a consistent basis. Otherwise (and I'll repeat myself from a previous post) it's kind of a slap in the face to colourists. 'no breedings slots forever guys. but we've raised the price lolololololol'.
If breedings were a regular thing and stages were dropped off in a timely manner, I would be all for upping the price. I would be willing to pay 50k per parent. I've paid that in stores that have a lot lower quality than soq and I've been fine with it. Would I pay more? Probably not. Would I support a tiered system? Not in the slightest.
As for people saying 'I can get gold easily'. Well, that's great for you and kudos. But what about those of us who don't have RL income to spend on GC? What about those of us who don't have the time to sit around booty grabbing/playing the market/what have you? Why should those people be negatively effected because a few of you have the income to spend such an amount on breedings? Saving up the millions for customs is hard enough as it is without saving up hundreds of thousands for breedings.
Rambled a bit and probably repeated myself but w/e.
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:31 am
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:52 am
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:12 am
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Syaoran-Puu Again, this is my personal opinion and not the opinion of the store/staff A lot of you are talking about 'long waiting periods'.... but that's not ALL colourists (not denying that it is some.... I have waited months and months for breedings... and actually waited two years for two big bribe pets that in the end never got produced), BUT that just a few not everyone!!! There are quite a few colourists who are very timely... and their quality is amazing! Take Shalar by Mindsend, or just look at Phoenix that Agneza did, they are both absolutely stunning! And both were done in the .... Pregnant stage >> One Week - Baskets >> One Week - Foals >> Two Weeks - Adults. So it's not an issue with all colourists..... EDIT: I don't believe paying them more will get 'higher quality' as most are suggesting.... especially since people like Mindsend and Agneza and Mobbu (and others I just don't want to bore everyone will all the names) are already producing pets at the highest quality they can..... I think the main issue is that the aren't enough slots! Let's be honest there have been less Breeding slots this year so far than any previous year to this point. So we just need to see MORE MORE MORE MORE. Something I am under the understanding will be happening soon. Again, I dislike the tiered system.... as explained in my previous post (page 4 I think). I also don't see the need for them costing something as ridiculous as 500k. I don't think they should cost anywhere near the same price as customs! Especially since colourists do get more Staff Credits for breedings and most do consider this more of a payment than gold.... which means... why are we really bothering with a price increase? It comes down to the notion again... are we simply trying to make slots less competitive? If so I don't think it would work, while sure a few would drop out I do believe a lot of people would still enter (at least to begin with). So yeah... I do not see the need to increase. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:53 am
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So . . . I haven't posted in this thread before, even though I've been reading along since Saturday afternoon. But the vitriol was more than I wanted to deal with. I saw no reason for it and it upset me. I knew if I posted, I wouldn't be able to keep my disappointment over the attitudes of some of the people from coloring my words. I am grateful things have calmed down and the topic at hand is actually being discussed now.
So . . . on to that.
I, honestly, have always wondered at both the FS and Breeding prices. It is such a small amount that it almost seems pointless to even mess with. Looking around at other shops just on the front page of the B/C area - and there's not much that is even the same price as here, most are higher.
Really, to my mind, the prices for FS and Breeding are just formalities, pittances. And this argument that people can't afford more is ridiculous. Even most of the recent gold shop items are at or above the FS price, and a decent number is above the Breeding price. If paying more than the current prices is going to cause people to walk away away from the shop, then it's not the gold that's the problem.
I'm not saying it should go up to 500k - that is too high. But 50k for breedings seems totally within reason to me. And FS going up to 25k sounds like a good idea too.
I don't think at 50k people will stop giving away baskets. There will be extra baskets and people who are inclined to share with newbies will still be inclined to share with newbies. 50k won't be breaking any banks. And even if someone needs to save up a little longer because they don't currently have it on their account, it shouldn't take long. I don't think it would even stop people from paying for a whole breeding or FS.
But it feels to me as though the price is just there to keep from giving them away for free. But it's so close to free it isn't even funny. I'm not super rich - I look at what people pay for auctions and wince. I had to save up for a long time to have the gold to pay for my custom wishes. But that doesn't change the argument. Current prices are beyond low.
To my mind, if someone isn't willing to look at the prices and realize just how low they are, they also aren't seeing the value of the work. The argument of 'just pixels' is, in some ways true, but it misses so very much. If you go to a convention and see a print you like - you'll likely have to fork over at least $20 to take it home with you. That's just pixels - it's just that it's pixels in a piece of paper.
Tektek is currently assessing cash as 100,000 per $2.50. So . . . a breeding is currently going for - equivalent value of $.30 [no - I'm not saying go out and buy GC - I'm just making a point]. So, for the equivalent of thirty cents you're getting how many hours of time from a colorist? Because, I promise, it isn't even close to minimum wage. I'm not saying it needs to be, but there is value to the colorist's time.
And making gold takes . . . how much time? I work more than 50 hours a week. I have friends I want to hang out with in the real world. I have family and obligations there. I don't spend much time on gaia - to the point that I couldn't even interact with the event except to get a proxy - and I still see how ridiculously low the prices for FS and Breedings are here.
The prices that low suggest there is no true value to those items. And there is great value in them. I looked around and many shops had their FS at or above the breeding price here. And breedings were even more expensive. The argument that someone would have to tell the other shops to do the same is ridiculous given that.
Soquili is a flag ship of the B/C shop. Few other shops even come close to the quality and desirability of Soq. And the prices here for FS and Breedings are some of the lowest one can find. If people can afford the higher prices in other shops, they would surely work to afford them here.
I don't understand all the arguments in here. I particularly don't understand the venom that was thrown around because of this suggestion. And I am very upset that people were not able to act as adults and have a reasonable conversation about something like this without the kind of attacks I saw.
But I'm even more upset that so many of you think so little of the time of those who work so hard to get you such amazing pieces of art. That's what we're talking about here. Each one of these 'pixel horses' are individualized, one of a kind, pieces of art. Are they all on the same base - sure - but they are works of art none the less. They require creativity and work, time and love. And some of you are so busy spitting hate that you can't see how your arguments might come across to those who give so much of their time and themselves for you.
Too much of this thread felt ungrateful. The last few topics in the Feedback Forum have had a lot of that feel to me. I am so glad the colorists here understand that the unthinking cruelty of some of the people here doesn't reflect the shop as a whole. That they step in and try to understand and guide things, give their thoughts, and overlook the underlying thoughts behind the words.
There is no reason a price increase to 25k for FS and 50k for Breedings should be looked at as unreasonable. And every reason to think about it logically as something we do to show, just a bit, of our appreciation. Yes, we can tip now, and I do - and I still would. But at least then I'd stop being embarrassed when I start a trade for their hard work. I don't like feeling like I'm sucking up to the colorists when I give them what I feel is fair compensation for the time and effort they put in to the work they do for me. By no means do I think 25k and 50k are enough to equal fair compensation - given current values on gaia. But it's at least a step in that direction that is still within fairly easy reach of those who don't have time or RL money to add to the equation.
I think that it's fair to ask for the same time commitment from the customer in effort at raising gold through the normal gaia means as the time commitment that the colorists put in to the work they are doing on that customer's art. If you can't spend at least the little bit of time of time it takes to get that much gold [which doesn't take long] - how can you justify asking the colorist to spend that kind of time on your art. And, yes, it takes that kind of time to produce the quality of Soq we see in FS and Breedings.
I, personally, am highly grateful to the staff and colorists here for all they do. And I want there to be some reflection of the value of their time. They spend so much of it on us, we should be willing to give something back.
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:01 am
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I think Cel and Syaoran and Lyda have made some great points here.
- but as it currently stands, even putting GC completely aside, a colorist could in theory make more gaia gold playing booty grab with their time than working on breedings or FS pets. So do I think it's unreasonable that the price of a breeding be approximiately equivalent in gold that could be earned from booty grab in the same time it would take to color a pet? Not at all. But yeah, like Lyda says - each soquili is the product of honest time someone put into a piece of art. But on the flip side - because of all of this, gold isn't the primary motivator for most if not all of the colorists.
((And I know the reasons why not, but I do wish that more colorists could occasionally take RL soquili commissions to be able to make some real world money on the pets they make. Were the system different, etc. A colorist might be able to pay some bills by doing a couple of pets a month on the RL side. BUT I know that there are a number of reasons that make that difficult if not impossible)).
Okay, this is almost completely off-topic, but seeing as how the conversation has kind of drifted at least in the last few posts away from the price of the breeding slots and more towards "how can we make this less competitive"...
This would make things DIFFICULT in the short term, but in the long run, I think it would make a lot of people happy.
What if you can only win ONE breeding a month OR one freebie OR one flaffle win. Keep customs separate if you like from that allotable total because of the pricing and to make things more fair to the colorists, but hear me out:
The BIGGEST problem: - everyone currently has been trying with two couples for a long time. If you change it to only being able to win once, the easiest way to implement that without screwing over you other breeding partner would be to limit you to only being able to enter one couple per raffle. This means a lot of tough decisions as what might be a first priority breeding for you might be 2nd priority for your breeding partner. Maybe compromises can be made with trying for certain colorists' slots with one couple and the other colorists' slots with the other.
This also might help people pick and choose couples based on a colorist's strengths and weaknesses as opposed to just trying with them in order to get another LL counter.
BUT, in the long run, every time someone wins, they're out of the running. Raffle lists are halved, and if someone enters a flatsale and win, they can't breed that month. So it also means being choosier with flatsale or freebie pets. Don't enter if you don't really like the soquili being offered.
The downside to that is you can't predict flatsale pets. What if you won a breeding and one you love comes up? Possible solutions would be either (A) have flatsales either at the begining of the month regularly, or at least a preview of the pets, or (B) Don't look you breeding win as a gift horse in the mouth (pun intended) - and tell yourself that you had a 1/200-ish chance of winning the freebie anyway.
Just some thoughts *shrugs*
But I can't think of anyone who would be disappointed with the potential of "only" one breeding win per month. I think it's mostly a hangover because SHIFTING to the system would be hard, even if it would be better in the long run.
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:36 am
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:45 am
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:59 am
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:29 am
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Syaoran-Puu Ishtanballa I told myself I wasn't going to post in here-not for the same reasons as others who were avoiding it-, but here I am, posting. I always saw the 6k prices for breedings and FSs as the shop cutting people a bit of a break. A gift, if you will. Why do I see it this way? Because nearly everything else that involves gold in this shop is going to cost a pretty penny. Auctions go for mind blowing amounts of gold. Raffles, more gold tossed into the pot, the better the chances. And customs speak for themselves. <3 I agree with this.
100% in agreement with this too. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:06 am
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:28 pm
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Kettyn Syaoran-Puu Ishtanballa I told myself I wasn't going to post in here-not for the same reasons as others who were avoiding it-, but here I am, posting. I always saw the 6k prices for breedings and FSs as the shop cutting people a bit of a break. A gift, if you will. Why do I see it this way? Because nearly everything else that involves gold in this shop is going to cost a pretty penny. Auctions go for mind blowing amounts of gold. Raffles, more gold tossed into the pot, the better the chances. And customs speak for themselves. <3 I agree with this. 100% in agreement with this too.
I also agree with this. |
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 1:42 pm
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Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:16 pm
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Reply
