**Picture Contest X**

[Garland-Green]

Ferocious, thick scaled, OT sea dwelling creature. What does God have to say about it, and what is its name?  

[CheyenneServant]

I learned about Dinosaurs in the class at youth service at my church. I found out they were mentioned in JOb
Job 40:15–24
"Behold, Behemoth, which I made as I made you; he eats grass like an ox. Behold, his strength in his loins, and his power in the muscles of his belly. He makes his tail stiff like a cedar; the sinews of his thighs are knit together. His bones are tubes of bronze, his limbs like bars of iron.

"He is the first of the works of God; let him who made him bring near his sword! For the mountains yield food for him where all the wild beasts play. Under the lotus plants he lies, in the shelter of the reeds and in the marsh. For his shade the lotus trees cover him; the willows of the brook surround him. Behold, if the river is turbulent he is not frightened; he is confident though Jordan rushes against his mouth. Can one take him by his eyes, or pierce his nose with a snare?"
So my group at church thought that since Dragons were mentioned in the bible and they look like Dinosaurs which we already know have existed that dragons really must be related to Dinosaurs.  

[real eyes realize]

From the sounds of it, Behemoth is more of a land-dweller ("eateth grass", "He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens", Job 40:15, 21 KJV); The next chapter (Job 41) describes Leviathan, the one who dwells in the sea ("Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook"; "Can you fill its hide with harpoons or its head with fishing spears?"; "It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.").

Yet, despite living in the sea, Leviathan sounds amphibious because it would come up on land: i.e. Job 41:30 (NIV) "Its undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.". So the bottom of the animal is really jagged, unlike what's shown in the illustration; the KJV is a bit more descriptive I think, "Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire". All we have describing Leviathan's back are verses 13, 15-17 which say, "Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?", "Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted." Sounds smooth to me, and clearly gigantic because the scales are the size of shields. What amazes me is how a sea monster can breathe out fire ("Its snorting throws out flashes of light; its eyes are like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from its mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boiling pot over burning reeds. Its breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth." v. 18-21), which explains why Leviathan makes the sea a "boiling pot", but what in the world is this: "It leaves a glistening wake behind it; one would think the deep had white hair." v. 32 question like tendrils of a jellyfish? or a shining trail of bubbles? I wonder what it really means. Must be fast, traveling at high speeds, to leave bubbles like that, if it's actually referring to bubbles that is.

Elsewhere in the bible:

Quote:

Isaiah 27:1 (NIV)

27 In that day,

the Lord will punish with his sword—
his fierce, great and powerful sword—
Leviathan the gliding serpent,
Leviathan the coiling serpent;

Quote:

Psalm 104:26 (NIV)

26 There the ships go to and fro,
and Leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.

Despite being apocrypha, I was really excited when I read both Behemoth and Leviathan mentioned in the Book of Enoch, of all things lol, and that they're sex-specific/gender-specific:

Quote:

7. And on that day were two monsters parted, a female monster named Leviathan, to dwell in the abysses of the ocean over the fountains of the waters. 8. But the male is named Behemoth, who occupied with his breast a waste wilderness named †Dûidâin†, on the east of the garden where the elect and righteous dwell, where my grandfather was taken up, the seventh from Adam, the first man whom the Lord of Spirits created.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe063.htm

I'm guessing they're the only one of their kind if Noah is going through the trouble of saying one is male and the other is female. The bible doesn't mention those details though, but reading through the bible it doesn't sound like they're a very populous species. When it says "Leviathan" it sounds like one individual creature, not one of many.

mostly quoting from NIV, unless otherwise stated.


edit: a different picture of a threshing instrument, fits the KJV description more http://www.flickr.com/photos/telcoserf/2957952119/  

[Islamic Teacher]

I don't believe in either the Behemoth or Leviathan
If i were to guess I would say it was a Leviathan since it seems more ocean based  

[Islamic Teacher]

Dragons related to Dinosaurs ? rolleyes

You can't be serious rofl

The Behemoth isn't a Dinosaur either talk2hand  

[Islamic Teacher]

real eyes realize

From the sounds of it, Behemoth is more of a land-dweller ("eateth grass", "He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens", Job 40:15, 21 KJV); The next chapter (Job 41) describes Leviathan, the one who dwells in the sea ("Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook"; "Can you fill its hide with harpoons or its head with fishing spears?"; "It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.").

Yet, despite living in the sea, Leviathan sounds amphibious because it would come up on land: i.e. Job 41:30 (NIV) "Its undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.". So the bottom of the animal is really jagged, unlike what's shown in the illustration; the KJV is a bit more descriptive I think, "Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire". All we have describing Leviathan's back are verses 13, 15-17 which say, "Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?", "Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted." Sounds smooth to me, and clearly gigantic because the scales are the size of shields. What amazes me is how a sea monster can breathe out fire ("Its snorting throws out flashes of light; its eyes are like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from its mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boiling pot over burning reeds. Its breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth." v. 18-21), which explains why Leviathan makes the sea a "boiling pot", but what in the world is this: "It leaves a glistening wake behind it; one would think the deep had white hair." v. 32 question like tendrils of a jellyfish? or a shining trail of bubbles? I wonder what it really means. Must be fast, traveling at high speeds, to leave bubbles like that, if it's actually referring to bubbles that is.

Elsewhere in the bible:

Quote:

Isaiah 27:1 (NIV)

27 In that day,

the Lord will punish with his sword—
his fierce, great and powerful sword—
Leviathan the gliding serpent,
Leviathan the coiling serpent;

Quote:

Psalm 104:26 (NIV)

26 There the ships go to and fro,
and Leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.

Despite being apocrypha, I was really excited when I read both Behemoth and Leviathan mentioned in the Book of Enoch, of all things lol, and that they're sex-specific/gender-specific:

Quote:

7. And on that day were two monsters parted, a female monster named Leviathan, to dwell in the abysses of the ocean over the fountains of the waters. 8. But the male is named Behemoth, who occupied with his breast a waste wilderness named †Dûidâin†, on the east of the garden where the elect and righteous dwell, where my grandfather was taken up, the seventh from Adam, the first man whom the Lord of Spirits created.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe063.htm

I'm guessing they're the only one of their kind if Noah is going through the trouble of saying one is male and the other is female. The bible doesn't mention those details though, but reading through the bible it doesn't sound like they're a very populous species. When it says "Leviathan" it sounds like one individual creature, not one of many.

mostly quoting from NIV, unless otherwise stated.


edit: a different picture of a threshing instrument, fits the KJV description more http://www.flickr.com/photos/telcoserf/2957952119/

You do "realize" that the Book of Enoch (I've read it) isn't in YOUR bible rolleyes
I believe in the Bible yet i'm surprised that there are christians out there who actually think the Leviathan and Behemoth are real surprised  

[real eyes realize]

Khalid Ibn Walid

You do "realize" that the Book of Enoch (I've read it) isn't in YOUR bible rolleyes
I believe in the Bible yet i'm surprised that there are christians out there who actually think the Leviathan and Behemoth are real surprised

That's why I said "apocrypha".

Since the bible does mention Behemoth and Leviathan, there will be Christians who believe it, naturally. That kind of goes with the territory: you believe the holy books of your religion. What should surprise you are Christians who don't believe what's written. Whatever is being described is/was real. I wouldn't expect for a person who isn't a Christian to believe in it. At first I thought it was a machine, but whatever it is, YHWH created it and it's serpent-like.  

[Islamic Teacher]

real eyes realize

Khalid Ibn Walid

You do "realize" that the Book of Enoch (I've read it) isn't in YOUR bible rolleyes
I believe in the Bible yet i'm surprised that there are christians out there who actually think the Leviathan and Behemoth are real surprised

That's why I said "apocrypha".

Since the bible does mention Behemoth and Leviathan, there will be Christians who believe it, naturally. That kind of goes with the territory: you believe the holy books of your religion. What should surprise you are Christians who don't believe what's written. Whatever is being described is/was real. I wouldn't expect for a person who isn't a Christian to believe in it. At first I thought it was a machine, but whatever it is, YHWH created it and it's serpent-like.

First of its "Holy Book" not books
If Yahweh (Allah) created the Leviathan and Behemoth i have to ask
WHY?
Where are they Now?
Allah only Knows  

[real eyes realize]

Khalid Ibn Walid

First of its "Holy Book" not books

No, it's definitely "books" plural, since we have many authors, despite them all being inspired by YHWH. The Torah (written/compiled by Moses), the Prophets (variety: Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Habakkuk, etc...), the Books of Wisdom (Ecclesiastes, Proverbs, Psalms, etc... by Solomon and David/ their scribes), the Historical books of the OT (Chronicles, Kings, Esther, etc...) the Gospels, the Epistles and the Biblical Apocrypha. Many scrolls, many books. Apparently, that statement doesn't even apply with Islam {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_holy_books}, which also has many books. All of the scrolls have been compiled into books for our modern convenience, but that is not how they came into existence.

Khalid Ibn Walid

If Yahweh (Allah) created the Leviathan and Behemoth i have to ask
WHY?
Where are they Now?
Allah only Knows

I guess this was a rhetorical question.  

[Garland-Green]

real eyes realize

From the sounds of it, Behemoth is more of a land-dweller ("eateth grass", "He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens", Job 40:15, 21 KJV); The next chapter (Job 41) describes Leviathan, the one who dwells in the sea ("Can you pull in Leviathan with a fishhook"; "Can you fill its hide with harpoons or its head with fishing spears?"; "It makes the depths churn like a boiling caldron and stirs up the sea like a pot of ointment.").

Yet, despite living in the sea, Leviathan sounds amphibious because it would come up on land: i.e. Job 41:30 (NIV) "Its undersides are jagged potsherds, leaving a trail in the mud like a threshing sledge.". So the bottom of the animal is really jagged, unlike what's shown in the illustration; the KJV is a bit more descriptive I think, "Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire". All we have describing Leviathan's back are verses 13, 15-17 which say, "Who can strip off its outer coat? Who can penetrate its double coat of armor?", "Its back has rows of shields tightly sealed together; each is so close to the next that no air can pass between. They are joined fast to one another; they cling together and cannot be parted." Sounds smooth to me, and clearly gigantic because the scales are the size of shields. What amazes me is how a sea monster can breathe out fire ("Its snorting throws out flashes of light; its eyes are like the rays of dawn. Flames stream from its mouth; sparks of fire shoot out. Smoke pours from its nostrils as from a boiling pot over burning reeds. Its breath sets coals ablaze, and flames dart from its mouth." v. 18-21), which explains why Leviathan makes the sea a "boiling pot", but what in the world is this: "It leaves a glistening wake behind it; one would think the deep had white hair." v. 32 question like tendrils of a jellyfish? or a shining trail of bubbles? I wonder what it really means. Must be fast, traveling at high speeds, to leave bubbles like that, if it's actually referring to bubbles that is.

Elsewhere in the bible:

Quote:

Isaiah 27:1 (NIV)

27 In that day,

the Lord will punish with his sword—
his fierce, great and powerful sword—
Leviathan the gliding serpent,
Leviathan the coiling serpent;

Quote:

Psalm 104:26 (NIV)

26 There the ships go to and fro,
and Leviathan, which you formed to frolic there.

Despite being apocrypha, I was really excited when I read both Behemoth and Leviathan mentioned in the Book of Enoch, of all things lol, and that they're sex-specific/gender-specific:

Quote:

7. And on that day were two monsters parted, a female monster named Leviathan, to dwell in the abysses of the ocean over the fountains of the waters. 8. But the male is named Behemoth, who occupied with his breast a waste wilderness named †Dûidâin†, on the east of the garden where the elect and righteous dwell, where my grandfather was taken up, the seventh from Adam, the first man whom the Lord of Spirits created.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe063.htm

I'm guessing they're the only one of their kind if Noah is going through the trouble of saying one is male and the other is female. The bible doesn't mention those details though, but reading through the bible it doesn't sound like they're a very populous species. When it says "Leviathan" it sounds like one individual creature, not one of many.

mostly quoting from NIV, unless otherwise stated.


edit: a different picture of a threshing instrument, fits the KJV description more http://www.flickr.com/photos/telcoserf/2957952119/

Correct! We have many myths of fire breathing creatures called dragons, so it is not fare fetched to think it possible.



This painting is circa 1506 by Raphael.
Saint George and the Dragon

The word dinosaur is a fairly new word (1800's) it would not have been used when the Bible was written because it was yet to be invented. Instead what if they went by another name? As for example dragon?

It is very interesting to note, however, that nearly every major ancient culture has myths and legends about giant reptiles. How would these civilizations, continents and millennia apart, all come up with legends of giant reptile creatures? Evolutionary scientists tell us that dinosaurs existed millions of years before human beings. Dinosaur fossils were not discovered until thousands of years after the myths of giants reptiles began. How can this be?

Both the Behemoth and the Leviathan have dinosaur like features,
and seem to fit the criteria regardless of being the only one of the kind.

@ Khalid Ibn Walid: Both the Behemoth and the Leviathan are more than likely long dead. Everything in creation suffers under Adams sin, and everything in creation groans under sin. The Leviathan and the Behemoth regardless of their mythical appearance were animals with blood, skin and bones.  

[Garland-Green]

Khalid Ibn Walid

Dragons related to Dinosaurs ? rolleyes

You can't be serious rofl

The Behemoth isn't a Dinosaur either talk2hand

No, dragons are dinosaurs in a sense. It is history turned into mythology.
Like I said earlier the word dinosaur is a fairly new word (1800's).  

[Garland-Green]

 

[Islamic Teacher]

real eyes realize

Khalid Ibn Walid

First of its "Holy Book" not books

No, it's definitely "books" plural, since we have many authors, despite them all being inspired by YHWH. The Torah (written/compiled by Moses), the Prophets (variety: Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Habakkuk, etc...), the Books of Wisdom (Ecclesiastes, Proverbs, Psalms, etc... by Solomon and David/ their scribes), the Historical books of the OT (Chronicles, Kings, Esther, etc...) the Gospels, the Epistles and the Biblical Apocrypha. Many scrolls, many books. Apparently, that statement doesn't even apply with Islam {http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_holy_books}, which also has many books. All of the scrolls have been compiled into books for our modern convenience, but that is not how they came into existence.

Khalid Ibn Walid

If Yahweh (Allah) created the Leviathan and Behemoth i have to ask
WHY?
Where are they Now?
Allah only Knows

I guess this was a rhetorical question.

Oh yeah, i forgot thanks for reminding me sweatdrop
Here's a list of all the Books
Scrolls of Abraham and Moses
Torah
Gospel
Quran

The last Question was Rhetorical (Hope i didn't confuse you)  

[Islamic Teacher]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtxhbF-AeQQ

Here's the Islamic Version of Adam and Eve and the Dinosaurs, Satan,etc.