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 Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:29 pm
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Garland-Green Khalid Ibn Walid The Pollen Shed Neither of these links support your claims... The first states that Muslims believe that Christianity distorts teachings of monotheism to include the Trinity. Nothing about the Ebionites rejecting these doctrines... The second doesn't mention the Trinity anywhere in the article. The early Christians were either united in their belief of orthodox Christianity, or were considered heretics and were excommunicated, being therefore no longer a part of the Church (this developed the need for creeds). I'm not sure where you're getting your history from, but you may need to do some further research. There is No Real Orthodox in Christianity Christians who didn't Believe in the Trinity were among the earliest Christians The Dogma of the Trinity didn't form until Much Later ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRSAi93_aM
It doesn't matter if the word Trinity is not found in the bible,
or that it was articulated later by the church fathers, the concept
of the trinity is found in the Bible itself, regardless of being called by name or not. Making it pretty much dogma from the very beginning.
Old Testament Trinity Proof Texts
Genesis 1:26
"Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus.
Genesis 19:24
"Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19.
Isaiah 6
Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead.
Isaiah 40-55
Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55.
Isaiah 45:23-24
I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame.
Micah 5:2
But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity.
New Testament Trinity Proof Texts
Mark 2:5-12
Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?
John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.
John 5:18
For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 8:58
"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple.
John 10:33
"I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. ... Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'?"
John 12:41 + Isaiah 6
A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh.
John 19:7
The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God."
Romans 14:11
For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God."
Philippians 2:1-2
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all.
Philippians 2:9-11
"Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
Revelation 22:3
"And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall [latreuo] serve Him."
Jesus worshipped in the highest sense of "latreuo"
*News Flash*
Jesus (peace be upon him) is NOT God Almighty 3nodding |
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:31 pm
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:41 pm
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Isaac was the only son of Abraham and Sarah, and the father of Esau and Jacob, who God renamed Israel. The patriarchs are often named together in both the Old Testament and New Testament e.g. when speaking to Moses, God said, "Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.." (Exodus 3:6 KJV).
Isaac's birth came about from a miracle - Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born (Genesis 21:5), and Sarah, at age 90, had been unable to have children (Genesis 16:1, Genesis 17:17 KJV). As explained by God:
"Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 KJV).
Isaac was not Abraham's firstborn, or only, son. Fourteen years before, when Abraham was 86 (Genesis 16:16), Sarah (then called Sarai) had arranged for a child to be born to Abraham through her own Egyptian maidservant, Hagar. Ishmael was born from the arrangement (Genesis 16:1-4).
The promise did not however go through Ishmael because the covenant had already been made with Abraham, with a yet-unborn Isaac the designated heir, before Ishmael was conceived or born (Genesis 15:2-6). While God does not play favorites, He was also not bound to any other arrangements for children that Abraham and Sarah had taken upon themselves to bring about after the matter had been firmly decided by God.
Abraham's greatest test of obedience to God involved Isaac:
"Take your son, your only son [i.e. only son with his wife Sarah] Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." (Genesis 22:2 KJV)
Abraham passed the test, while God stopped it before any actual harm to could come to Isaac:
"Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son [i.e. only son with his wife Sarah], from Me." (Genesis 22:12 KJV).
Abraham had been willing to give up his son to God, just as God Himself would later give up His Own Son to a sacrifice that was allowed to happen. An interesting point is that the place where Abraham was sent to sacrifice Isaac, Mount Moriah, is today known as the Temple Mount in Jerusalem - Isaac (Isaac, not Ishmael, was a direct ancestor of the Messiah, Jesus Christ) would have been sacrificed very near the place that Jesus Christ was Crucified.
An important point about Abraham is that although all bloodline Jews of today are descended from him, Abraham himself was not a Jew. Abraham's son Isaac, had a son Jacob (who was renamed Israel), who had 12 sons (from whom came The Tribes Of Israel), one of which was Judah, from whom came the Jews. The first "Jew" was Judah, Abraham's great-grandson (see Hebrews). Both Jews and Arabs are equally descended from Abraham, but Abraham himself was neither "Jew" nor "Arab".
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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:30 pm
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Khalid Ibn Walid Garland-Green Khalid Ibn Walid The Pollen Shed Neither of these links support your claims... The first states that Muslims believe that Christianity distorts teachings of monotheism to include the Trinity. Nothing about the Ebionites rejecting these doctrines... The second doesn't mention the Trinity anywhere in the article. The early Christians were either united in their belief of orthodox Christianity, or were considered heretics and were excommunicated, being therefore no longer a part of the Church (this developed the need for creeds). I'm not sure where you're getting your history from, but you may need to do some further research. There is No Real Orthodox in Christianity Christians who didn't Believe in the Trinity were among the earliest Christians The Dogma of the Trinity didn't form until Much Later ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRSAi93_aMIt doesn't matter if the word Trinity is not found in the bible, or that it was articulated later by the church fathers, the concept of the trinity is found in the Bible itself, regardless of being called by name or not. Making it pretty much dogma from the very beginning. Old Testament Trinity Proof Texts Genesis 1:26 "Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus. Genesis 19:24 "Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19. Isaiah 6 Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead. Isaiah 40-55 Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55. Isaiah 45:23-24 I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame. Micah 5:2 But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity. New Testament Trinity Proof Texts Mark 2:5-12 Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone? John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. John 5:18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. John 8:58 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. John 10:33 "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. ... Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'?" John 12:41 + Isaiah 6 A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. John 19:7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God." Romans 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God." Philippians 2:1-2 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. Philippians 2:9-11 "Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Revelation 22:3 "And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall [latreuo] serve Him." Jesus worshipped in the highest sense of "latreuo"
*News Flash*
Jesus (peace be upon him) is NOT God Almighty 3nodding
I do not have time to read, and answer every single link this site lists. It would take me weeks just to read all of it, but I know a site that provides reasonable answers to all objections Answering Christianity has.
That site is: http://www.answering-islam.org/
I think if you visited the sited you would find answers that are more than reasonable.
Your comment to my post where I show Jesus to be God using the Old testament is not persuasive, and do not offer a reasonable answer to the evidence I listed. Simply calling something a News Flash, doesn't make it news, or at least not news to note. In this case it is an old objection that I personally feel have been answered more than enough times by Christian apologists.
And as for the link you provided, how can I take the site you provided seriously considering some of the groundless 9/11 conspiracy theories it tries to offer as truth? How can I trust them to make sound evaluations of scripture if this is what they believe? It makes me question their judgment. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:14 am
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Excellent point, Garland Green. And like I posted before, it is wise to do one's own research. Consistently siting conspiracy theorists doesn't help your case. The facts are often skewed to fit whatever previous assumptions the author maintains.
"For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear." 2 Timothy 4:3
To say:
Quote: *News Flash* Jesus (peace be upon him) is NOT God Almighty
is a faulty argument in at least three ways:
1. This is not an argument (2 premises and 1 conclusion), nor is it a rebuttal. This is a statement. It proves nothing and is unsupported. Yes, you did support it later with a link, but as has been previously requested, please read the articles yourself and articulate what you want to say. Unless you yourself wrote these, we have no way of knowing whether or not everything presented therein is your full opinion.
2. You say "peace be upon him" for Muhammad. Muhammad died at the age of 62, by Muslim accounts (site). Yet it is also retained that Jesus did not die (site). So then "pbuh" ought not apply to Jesus, since it is taught that he had not died (Islam teaches that He will die after returning for 40 days and crushing the cross - site). So either you believe that Jesus did not die (and ought not to say pbuh), or you believe that he died and rose again (because he would need to be alive again in order to die again).
3. To say "*News Flash*" is a sarcastic and underhanded way of saying "this should be common knowledge". This is a subtle but definite example of the logical fallacy "argumentum ad populum", or "appeal to the people/masses". It proposes that a proposition must be true because many or most people believe it. Truth is not subjective to popular opinion. Nor does it necessitate common knowledge. One does not necessitate the other.
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:24 am
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Garland-Green Khalid Ibn Walid Garland-Green Khalid Ibn Walid The Pollen Shed Neither of these links support your claims... The first states that Muslims believe that Christianity distorts teachings of monotheism to include the Trinity. Nothing about the Ebionites rejecting these doctrines... The second doesn't mention the Trinity anywhere in the article. The early Christians were either united in their belief of orthodox Christianity, or were considered heretics and were excommunicated, being therefore no longer a part of the Church (this developed the need for creeds). I'm not sure where you're getting your history from, but you may need to do some further research. There is No Real Orthodox in Christianity Christians who didn't Believe in the Trinity were among the earliest Christians The Dogma of the Trinity didn't form until Much Later ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXRSAi93_aMIt doesn't matter if the word Trinity is not found in the bible, or that it was articulated later by the church fathers, the concept of the trinity is found in the Bible itself, regardless of being called by name or not. Making it pretty much dogma from the very beginning. Old Testament Trinity Proof Texts Genesis 1:26 "Let US make man in OUR image": Three plural pronouns, (We, Us, Our) used 6 different times in four different passages: Gen 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa 6:8. The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that the Father was talking to Jesus. Genesis 19:24 "Then Yahweh [on earth in human form] rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh [in spirit form in heaven] out of heaven. Genesis 19:24. In this text Abraham is visited by three individuals, one being Yahweh and the other two angels. Here we have God on the earth (Jesus) and God in heaven (father) sending down fire from heaven. This incident when Abraham met with Yahweh God, is what Jesus referred to when he said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." (John 8:56) The unanimous opinion of the apostolic Fathers was that Jesus visited Abraham in Genesis 18 and 19. Isaiah 6 Isaiah saw the glory of Yahweh, but John says that Isaiah really saw the glory of Christ. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. Combine this with the fact the Yahweh said, "Who will go for US" is a plural pronoun indicating more than one person in the Godhead. Isaiah 40-55 Jesus echoes the "I AM" statements in Isaiah chapters 40-55. Isaiah 45:23-24 I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him shall be put to shame. Micah 5:2 But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, Too little to be among the clans of Judah, From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, From the days of eternity. New Testament Trinity Proof Texts Mark 2:5-12 Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone? John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. John 5:18 For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. John 8:58 "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad." The Jews therefore said to Him, "You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?" Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am." Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself, and went out of the temple. John 10:33 "I and the Father are one." The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. ... Has it not been written in your Law, 'I said, you are gods'?" John 12:41 + Isaiah 6 A simple reading of the context of John 12 makes it clear that John is saying that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus Christ himself in Isaiah 6. This proves Jesus is Yahweh. John 19:7 The Jews answered him, "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the Son of God." Romans 14:11 For it is written, "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to Me, And every tongue shall give praise to God." Philippians 2:1-2 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all. Philippians 2:9-11 "Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." Revelation 22:3 "And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, and His bond-servants shall [latreuo] serve Him." Jesus worshipped in the highest sense of "latreuo" *News Flash* Jesus (peace be upon him) is NOT God Almighty 3nodding
I do not have time to read, and answer every single link this site lists. It would take me weeks just to read all of it, but I know a site that provides reasonable answers to all objections Answering Christianity has.
That site is: http://www.answering-islam.org/
I think if you visited the sited you would find answers that are more than reasonable.
Your comment to my post where I show Jesus to be God using the Old testament is not persuasive, and do not offer a reasonable answer to the evidence I listed. Simply calling something a News Flash, doesn't make it news, or at least not news to note. In this case it is an old objection that I personally feel have been answered more than enough times by Christian apologists.
And as for the link you provided, how can I take the site you provided seriously considering some of the groundless 9/11 conspiracy theories it tries to offer as truth? How can I trust them to make sound evaluations of scripture if this is what they believe? It makes me question their judgment.
Answering-Christianity was created to object everything answering-islam has
Answering-islam is a lying,decieving website pirate
If you truly believe what it says then i feel sorry for you talk2hand |
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:26 pm
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A continuation of History. Ishmael, meaning God hears, was the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his wife Sarah. When Sarah had found herself not having children, she arranged to have a child with Abraham by Hagar acting as a surrogate mother (Genesis 16:1-4), even though God had specifically stated that a child (i.e. Isaac) would be born to Sarah in due time.
Ishmael was born at Mamre, when Abraham was 86, 11 years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land of Israel (Genesis 16:3). He grew up to be a man of the desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward people, exactly as God described him to his mother before he was born:
"Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to your affliction. He shall be a wild a** of a man, his hand against every man and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 16:11-12 ).
When a feast was held to celebrate the weaning of Isaac, who was born 13 years later, Ishmael caused trouble by insulting and mocking his little brother (Genesis 21:8-9). After Sarah, who by then had come to dislike both Hagar and Ishmael, saw what he was doing, she said to Abraham "Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 21:10 )
Abraham opposed Sarah's demand - despite Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:
"But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 )
Hagar and Ishmael were sent away, but they were not abandoned. God appeared and spoke to Hagar, assuring her that He would watch over them and see them prosper (Genesis 21:17-19). "And God was with the lad, and he grew up; he lived in the wilderness, and became an expert with the bow. He lived in the wilderness of Paran; and his mother took a wife for him from the land of Egypt" (Genesis 21:20-21 ).
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Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:49 pm
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Khalid Ibn Walid Answering-Christianity was created to object everything answering-islam has Answering-islam is a lying,decieving website pirate If you truly believe what it says then i feel sorry for you talk2hand
The reverse could also be said, but it's all petty.
"No, you're deceived," "No! You're deceived," is not a debate. It's just childish. Also, the argument is a combination of "argumentum ad hominem," and "argumentum ad baculum," appealing to the person and appealing to force, respectively. Whether or not answering-islam is a lying website does not negate nor successfully refute Garland's argument, not does it improve your own. Your statement adds nothing to the debate but intimidation, which is found in "argumentum ad baculum," or "appealing to force." You are implying that Garland is to be pitied. In fact, your statement implies that anyone who believes it is to be pitied. Therefore, we should not believe it. Do you see the logical fallacy?
The fallacy is further established by ignoring the rest of Garland's argument.
Regardless of whether or not your statements are true, your arguments (in the above quotes) are fallacious and therefore ought to be rethought. |
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Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2013 7:59 am
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:57 am
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:41 am
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Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:36 pm
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You have been spewing words concerning a religion you know little about. Maybe, as I catholic, I can shed just a little light upon your mind. Christianity was formerly a branch of judaism, and for the most part, continued to be such up until the Roman empire established Christianity as proper religion, and adopted it as the state religion of Rome. Before this, the desciples of christ didn't formally call themselves "Christian". They called themselves Jews. But since "Jew" is pretty much just another word for "Israeli", the Romans couldn't just assimilate into such a religion. Thus, the followers of christ became Christians, who accepted all to partake in their faith with their establishment of the Nicene creed. If you don't know what that is...then you should look it up. It is the true statement of faith for christianity. If I must compare it to something in islam, think of it like the Shahada...even though the nicene creed came first. It explains the trinity. But in case its not explicit enough for you, look at this diagram. It should explain.
Orthodox christianity was established later by the eastern roman empire (Coined today as the Byzantine empire). It was basically a seperate religion for the simple fact that the byzantine emperor claimed to be the religious leader instead of his holiness, the pope. They also challenged a few christian doctrines, including the trinity at one point. This lead to the entire empire's excommunication from the church. In rhetalliation, the Byzantines attempted to excommunicate the western roman empire (The catholics). In essence, it was something like this.
Pope "I am sorry, but you and your people are so twisted in your ways, that there is no hope for you. And I must put an end to it before you corrupt anymore souls with your heresy. So, I must excommunicate you."
Byzantine emperor No...you can't do that. You can't just excommunicate me and tell me I'm going to hell. Well get this I'm excommunicating YOU! HA! TAKE THAT!
And that was pretty much how Eastern Orthodox Christianity started. But the point I was trying to establish, is that the trinity has been a part of Christian Doctrine since the start of the religion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
As for your posts on Islam...I respect it as a religion...but you are wrong about it being the only religion able to sustain a government. There are many theocratic nations out there, one of them being Vatican City, which is indeed governed by the catholic church and its teachings. Furthermore, Islam truly isn't perfect, which is why Islamic empires, such as the Ummayad, Abbassid, and Ottomans, all fell. And why? Because of infighting over who should be the next Caliph. And now its escalated into something so strange that people cant even remember THAT was the reason the Sunnis and Shi'ites originally started fighting. One believed the Caliph should be a descendant of muhammad. Others thought that since his bloodline was so diluted, and his descendants so unfit for leadership, that the caliph could be any person of arabian descent.
Like I said, I respect Islam as a religion. It provides a belief for people who would otherwise have none. Islam is also one of the least tolerant religions out there, and to go about attacking others without proper fore-knowlege on who you're attacking...well...its not smart my friend. |
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:55 am
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:06 pm
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Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:56 pm
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