So its Christmas today, so naturally since I was in the house (which was a bad judgement call) my mom decided to force me to sit down so she could tell me all about Jesus and God and going to Heaven or Hell. I wanted to discuss a few things she brought up. Oh my mom obviously is very Christian and I am Atheist (she doesn't know this.)
1. My mom said God is a jealous guy. Isn't jealousy one of those things the bible says the Devil gives you or something? This doesn't make much sense to me. If you created an entire world and populated it and all that, what reason do you really have to be jealous? Is it not enough to have made everything but now you have to be jealous that these people you supposedly made don't worship you and only you? I don't really know how to feel about that.
2. My mom fully believes in spirits and demons and thinks the Devil is trying to get me possessed by a "lesbian spirit" so that I will go to hell. She also says she's seen spirits and demons. I don't believe this for a second. And I don't know what she saw, or what she thinks she saw, but I don't believe in spirits or demons. Do you think there is any legitimacy to spirits and demons?
3. My mom says Jesus was born on Christmas and that's what the holiday is about. I remember reading something about how that is incorrect. Who knows the real history of Christmas?
4. My mom says that people who believe in God go to Heaven and people who don't go to Hell. I find this to be a grave injustice. Do you know how many serial killers believe in God and how many genuinely good people don't? It just doesn't make sense that I would go to Hell just for not believing when I haven't done anything in my life to deserve to burn forever in the pits of Hell. It doesn't make sense that all the people who do a lot of good for people but don't believe would be punished for something and dumb as a difference in opinion. What do you think really happens when you die?
5. My mom says that praying will get me a lot. Just pray and things will come to me because God is awesome. I don't believe in this either. She seems to do a lot of praying and not a lot of doing but you have to do things to get things. I believe that If I actually try that things will happen, not if I just ask God he'll deliver. And if I remember correctly, God helps those who help themselves. And I know that this is something that really helps people and that's perfectly okay, I just personally don't think it works. It at least never has for me and I'm okay with that. Why do you think people pray? Do you think its kind of like a placebo or do you think it actually works?
6. Do you think my mom is crazy? I kind of do.
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:50 pm
Answer to 3: The original holiday around this time was invented by the Pagans, it was the Winter Solstice. The Christians (somehow) took offence and claimed it as the birth of their "savior." Which is how Easter was born as well. It was originally the Summer Solstice. Both Summer and Winter Solstice were meant to mark the changing of the seasons.
Also, remind your mother the bible was made by ignorant people in an ignorant time who said you can't eat shellfish or blend different fabrics, and it wasn't made by God or the Holy Spirit. I mean, I don't think the Holy Spirit could hold a damn quill.
Also, remind your mother the bible was made by ignorant people in an ignorant time who said you can't eat shellfish or blend different fabrics, and it wasn't made by God or the Holy Spirit. I mean, I don't think the Holy Spirit could hold a damn quill.
Hahaha! I loved that.
NegaScott_7x7
1. My mom said God is a jealous guy. Isn't jealousy one of those things the bible says the Devil gives you or something? This doesn't make much sense to me. If you created an entire world and populated it and all that, what reason do you really have to be jealous? Is it not enough to have made everything but now you have to be jealous that these people you supposedly made don't worship you and only you? I don't really know how to feel about that.
I never understood this either. But then again, I'm also an atheist, so I'm not the best person to be able to explain this to you.
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2. My mom fully believes in spirits and demons and thinks the Devil is trying to get me possessed by a "lesbian spirit" so that I will go to hell. She also says she's seen spirits and demons. I don't believe this for a second. And I don't know what she saw, or what she thinks she saw, but I don't believe in spirits or demons. Do you think there is any legitimacy to spirits and demons?
Pfffft~ I personally don't believe in spirits or demons and I have no memories of ever having experiencing the 'supernatural' that aren't easily explained. She could be legitimately crazy and actually be hallucinating that spirits are coming to possess you with...lesbianism? I honestly can't tell you, this just seems completely ridiculous to me.
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3. My mom says Jesus was born on Christmas and that's what the holiday is about. I remember reading something about how that is incorrect. Who knows the real history of Christmas?
What the other guy said~
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4. My mom says that people who believe in God go to Heaven and people who don't go to Hell. I find this to be a grave injustice. Do you know how many serial killers believe in God and how many genuinely good people don't? It just doesn't make sense that I would go to Hell just for not believing when I haven't done anything in my life to deserve to burn forever in the pits of Hell. It doesn't make sense that all the people who do a lot of good for people but don't believe would be punished for something and dumb as a difference in opinion. What do you think really happens when you die?
Different denominations might have different beliefs on this, but yeah. What I was raised under (Roman Catholicism) basically states that you have to believe in God and that Jesus was his son and not sin(or ask forgiveness) in order to gain entrance to heaven. If any of those is missing, you're out of luck. Then again, my family was pseudo-religious and never really did any church things besides holidays, so maybe I'm not the best authority on this.
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5. My mom says that praying will get me a lot. Just pray and things will come to me because God is awesome. I don't believe in this either. She seems to do a lot of praying and not a lot of doing but you have to do things to get things. I believe that If I actually try that things will happen, not if I just ask God he'll deliver. And if I remember correctly, God helps those who help themselves. And I know that this is something that really helps people and that's perfectly okay, I just personally don't think it works. It at least never has for me and I'm okay with that. Why do you think people pray? Do you think its kind of like a placebo or do you think it actually works?
I used to pray a lot for proof of God's existence. I never even got that. In all of my experience and what I've gathered from other people, it seems as though praying doesn't 'get' you anything so much as you get it yourself. For some people praying does bring comfort, though. And for cancer patients it can actually help a little bit with the cancer. I view this as a placebo effect, but take it as you will.
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6. Do you think my mom is crazy? I kind of do.
How crazy are you talking? I don't think she's legitimately institutionally insane, but a victim of human nature. We all want something to believe in and that's perfectly fine, but when you start saying that you've seen lesbian demons possessing your child or whatever then it's probably at the point where you're fooling yourself.
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:00 pm
1.) last time i checked, god was supposed to be some sort of all perfect being? and jealousy was satan's domain or something like that. if god's jealous of us, then we must have done something right. emotion_awesome
2.) maybe? i don't think we'll really ever know. but i highly doubt it.
3.) ...pfft. last time i checked, he was supposed to be born around september or october! christians just got their undies in a bunch a while back because people celebrated different holidays then they did and weren't christian so they claimed that december 25th was the birth of jesus and yadda yadda. ..okay, that was probably a bit insensitive to christians. my apologies.
4.) well, that is what the bible says and all that? but if heaven and hell is real, i doubt this is put into practice (and with that sentence, i would like to say i am agnostic atheist).
5.) uh sure okay whatever floats her boat. personally, i don't believe that for a second.
also-- adding onto what Timid Mishu said about the bible and the whole holy spirit thing:
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Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:00 pm
NegaScott_7x7
So its Christmas today, so naturally since I was in the house (which was a bad judgement call) my mom decided to force me to sit down so she could tell me all about Jesus and God and going to Heaven or Hell. I wanted to discuss a few things she brought up. Oh my mom obviously is very Christian and I am Atheist (she doesn't know this.)
Perhaps I could help shed some light on this matter, as a deeply religious individual.
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1. My mom said God is a jealous guy. Isn't jealousy one of those things the bible says the Devil gives you or something? This doesn't make much sense to me. If you created an entire world and populated it and all that, what reason do you really have to be jealous? Is it not enough to have made everything but now you have to be jealous that these people you supposedly made don't worship you and only you? I don't really know how to feel about that.
Yes and no.
Let's imagine you won a contest, but the award is given to somebody him. You want the prize, you DESERVE the prize. God creates the world, all of man, and they worship idols. It's not that he is Jealous. The translation would be closer, in fact, to "zealous", as God is eager to be loved by his creations.
This is a story, a comparison, the idea is that you should love god and credit him for his creations. That's all it means any time it speaks of Jealousy. It's too easy to think of the bratty kid who wants what he doesn't have. It's not literally, it's allegorical. It's a story with a moral, which means to give God some credit for what he does. You aren't supposed to fear his Jealous rage. People place too much emphasis on the Fear of God.... Of course, people put too much emphasis on the Bible as fact as opposed to a bunch of stories, divinely inspired, but not literal text.
Its mean to point us in the direction of God, to understand him, but it's not the absolute word of God. The bible is stories, some true, some exaggeration, all that reflect the best morality of the time in which it was written (which can be fairly bigoted at some point, but when men have the pen, prejudice works its way into the text).
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2. My mom fully believes in spirits and demons and thinks the Devil is trying to get me possessed by a "lesbian spirit" so that I will go to hell. She also says she's seen spirits and demons. I don't believe this for a second. And I don't know what she saw, or what she thinks she saw, but I don't believe in spirits or demons. Do you think there is any legitimacy to spirits and demons?
I'd like to give you scriptural perspective on this one, but there isn't. Your mom is just crazy.
The Bible is not meant, as I said, to be taken as fact. Further more, you can go all over the internet and find great arguments opposing this idiotic notion that the Bible is inherently homophobic. There is NO reason to believe Homosexuality is the result of demonic possession or evil spirits in anyway.
Going with the allegorical perspective, a demon would symbolize anything that would try to keep you from simply living a good life, as opposed to an actual demon. In scripture, demons are often there to lie to people, try to convince them to do wrong. We read the stories, and we are supposed to think of times when we ourselves would give in.
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3. My mom says Jesus was born on Christmas and that's what the holiday is about. I remember reading something about how that is incorrect. Who knows the real history of Christmas?
Jesus was not born on Christmas. There are several theories about when Christ was actually born, if he was (since I called myself a Christian, you can guess my perspective on that. Maybe. I did kinda imply the Bible wasn't all that important). But none of them say December 25th.
The Date was taken from previously existing Holidays, such as Saturnelia and Sol Invictus (I believe) in addition to many others. This was a way for early Christians to have common ground with other groups at the time- religious groups they were attempting to convert or conquer. Having traditions in common simply made people raised in other traditions more "agreeable" to this new Religion.
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4. My mom says that people who believe in God go to Heaven and people who don't go to Hell. I find this to be a grave injustice. Do you know how many serial killers believe in God and how many genuinely good people don't? It just doesn't make sense that I would go to Hell just for not believing when I haven't done anything in my life to deserve to burn forever in the pits of Hell. It doesn't make sense that all the people who do a lot of good for people but don't believe would be punished for something and dumb as a difference in opinion. What do you think really happens when you die?
Hell is mentioned in the Bible. As Hades, as Sheol, and with many other words that refer to either simply graves or places that existed in common myths of the time. This place of fire and Brimstone? It's barely mentioned in the Bible, if at all. I could go into more detail, but I want to actually sleep tonight. It's worth researching, though.
I don't know what happens when we die. I have my beliefs, but that's just it- my beliefs. I can assure you, though, this notion of hell is silly.
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5. My mom says that praying will get me a lot. Just pray and things will come to me because God is awesome. I don't believe in this either. She seems to do a lot of praying and not a lot of doing but you have to do things to get things. I believe that If I actually try that things will happen, not if I just ask God he'll deliver. And if I remember correctly, God helps those who help themselves. And I know that this is something that really helps people and that's perfectly okay, I just personally don't think it works. It at least never has for me and I'm okay with that. Why do you think people pray? Do you think its kind of like a placebo or do you think it actually works?
There is an old Joke about this.
A man is hiking in the woods. All of a sudden, he sees a bear. In a mad dash he runs fast as he can. Through the forest, down the ravine, not even thinking about where he's going. But the bear keeps up with him.
The man is out of breath. On one side of him, the bear. On the other side, the bottom of a cliff. He starts to climb, but falls. He's too weak to continue.
Finally, he calls out to God.
"God, please, save me from this bear."
He looks over the bear, who is also praying.
"God, please bless this food that I am about to eat."
You can't ask God for tangible things. You can't ask God to give you things. To pray is to try to communicate with God, talk to him, understand him. Not to ask him for a new job or to for the Chicago Fire to topple the Columbus Crew. No, you pray to Sean Johnson for that one.
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6. Do you think my mom is crazy? I kind of do.
Yes.....
Of course, you probably think I'm crazy for believing in God despite knowing that it's extremely improbable, perhaps impossible, for this God person to exist. The difference is, some the things your mother seems to be saying is dangerous. Its almost as if the Bible, for her, is there to act as God's divine commands, rather as a blue print to lead you to God.
Still, you can imagine in a world like this why one would be drawn to believing in something bigger than oneself, and I think there is a good reason to be, just as there is reason to doubt. The problem is when things become literal, we start listening to the words of people from the second century and earlier, people who didn't know that homosexuality was normal, who didn't know that Sperm did not come in limited amounts, who were still bound by the popular beliefs and prejudices of the day.
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:20 pm
I don't think people are crazy for believing in God, I think they're crazy when they go too far with it, like my mom does. I long for things to believe in just like everyone else, which is why I chose to be straight edge and I join clubs or groups as opposed to religion just because that's not for me.
And to be fair, my mom does mean well. She literally is afraid that I will go to Hell and she doesn't want me to end up there and she's only doing what she thinks is best, but she's still crazy. Its kind of like hoarding. My mom is a Jesus hoarder as I think I will call it. Its something I think she is compelled to believe in and when a traumatic event happened (which was my grandmother, her mother, dying), it got worse. I think she just wants to see my grandma again and this is the only way she knows how to go about it. But because this is the only way she knows, she ends up hurting me in the long run because she pretty much only does what the bible tells her to do, and she believes it tells her that who I am or at least part of who I am is a sin. My mother takes the bible extremely literally.
I know I'm not the OP, but thanks for the insight. That really clears up a lot of things I used to question.
Posted: Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:44 pm
NegaScott_7x7
I don't think people are crazy for believing in God, I think they're crazy when they go too far with it, like my mom does. I long for things to believe in just like everyone else, which is why I chose to be straight edge and I join clubs or groups as opposed to religion just because that's not for me.
Well then, here's to you.
Sorry, major Punk Rock fan, though I'm more into the Street Dogs/Dropkick Murphys Working Class Punk type stuff.
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And to be fair, my mom does mean well. She literally is afraid that I will go to Hell and she doesn't want me to end up there and she's only doing what she thinks is best, but she's still crazy. Its kind of like hoarding. My mom is a Jesus hoarder as I think I will call it. Its something I think she is compelled to believe in and when a traumatic event happened (which was my grandmother, her mother, dying), it got worse. I think she just wants to see my grandma again and this is the only way she knows how to go about it. But because this is the only way she knows, she ends up hurting me in the long run because she pretty much only does what the bible tells her to do, and she believes it tells her that who I am or at least part of who I am is a sin. My mother takes the bible extremely literally.
Most people take the Bible literally. It's the word of God, so they say. And that's actually a scary thing to me, the fact that people DO mean well. It's so much easier when the antagonists in your life are bad people, not well meaning people, good people who do horrible things.
Best you can do is state your case and try to get more moderate reactions, and wait until your able to live life as you see fit.
Let's imagine you won a contest, but the award is given to somebody him. You want the prize, you DESERVE the prize. God creates the world, all of man, and they worship idols. It's not that he is Jealous. The translation would be closer, in fact, to "zealous", as God is eager to be loved by his creations.
This is a story, a comparison, the idea is that you should love god and credit him for his creations. That's all it means any time it speaks of Jealousy. It's too easy to think of the bratty kid who wants what he doesn't have. It's not literally, it's allegorical. It's a story with a moral, which means to give God some credit for what he does. You aren't supposed to fear his Jealous rage. People place too much emphasis on the Fear of God.... Of course, people put too much emphasis on the Bible as fact as opposed to a bunch of stories, divinely inspired, but not literal text.
Its mean to point us in the direction of God, to understand him, but it's not the absolute word of God. The bible is stories, some true, some exaggeration, all that reflect the best morality of the time in which it was written (which can be fairly bigoted at some point, but when men have the pen, prejudice works its way into the text).
People have said things like this to me before. Thing is God isn't just some bratty kid. What you're saying makes sense. If I did a project, I'd want credit for it and everything you said. Thing is, I'm not an almighty all knowing perfect being. And that's why I have a hard time understanding your God.
That and I wish I could remember the verse that said God takes different forms and to pick one. But I'm not giving enough info to Google to find it. sad
Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:14 am
best to ignore her, we all have that one person in out familys who is a huge bible believer and takes everything out of context
i personaly believe that god is a flawed being and has to learn just like we do
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