Devil's Music Part 1 & 2

[Ratsah]

Part 1

Part 2  

[real eyes realize]

The music samples he played at the end of "Part 1" pretty much sum up his argument:

• the lyrical content must be biblical truth.
  
• if the rhythm makes you want to fornicate, avoid the song.
  
• if the rhythm makes you angry, avoid those songs.
  
• if the rhythm makes you depressed avoid these too.
  

I must say, those were some of the crappiest contemporary songs I've ever heard LOL. But I agree 100% with the above.

He errs though by saying it shouldn't make you excitable:

Quote:

2 Samuel 6:14-15 (NIV)

14 Wearing a linen ephod, David was dancing before the Lord with all his might, 15 while he and all Israel were bringing up the ark of the Lord with shouts and the sound of trumpets.

Note: this is during the time David acted righteous and loyal to YHWH's ways and not following his flesh. By that I'm referring to before the Bathsheba incident, but technically he shouldn't have transported the Ark by ox/wheels. It was supposed to be carried by the Kohathites (Numbers 4 & 7:6-9). You can't dance like that if you were listening to something resembling "Old Hymns". You wouldn't shout when a hymn is playing. The hymns Denlinger played at the end are nice, pure, safe and mellow; however, rhythmically-speaking, that's not the kind of music played in Israel/the Middle East/in the Bible when worshiping YHWH or rejoicing at his feasts. To give you a taste for the kind of instruments they used (and which YHWH obviously accepted or else he would've smited them like he did with Nadab, Abihu and Uzzah), consider the following:

Quote:

1 Chronicles 13:8-10 (NIV)

8 David and all the Israelites were celebrating with all their might before God, with songs and with harps, lyres, timbrels, cymbals and trumpets.

9 When they came to the threshing floor of Kidon, Uzzah reached out his hand to steady the ark, because the oxen stumbled. 10 The Lord’s anger burned against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he had put his hand on the ark. So he died there before God.

The lively music was fine; touching the ark was not. Denlinger is getting a little Pharisaical here: "Old Hymnals" are man's invention/tradition not God's command. God's music, as described in the bible, is much more excitable than that. He almost seems to be insinuating that the "Old Hymns" is what YHWH prefers when actually it was YHWH who instituted the playing of trumpets (Joshua 6:4). Trumpets = excitable music, often used during war (like drums); not "Old Hymnal" material (which is mellow). Speaking of drums, the timbrels/tambourines are basically hand drums with cymbals attached. Miriam worshiped YHWH with them in Exodus 15:20.

Some more verses describing the ancient Israelite worship music (which YHWH accepted):

Quote:

2 Chronicles 5:12 (NIV)

12 All the Levites who were musicians—Asaph, Heman, Jeduthun and their sons and relatives—stood on the east side of the altar, dressed in fine linen and playing cymbals, harps and lyres. They were accompanied by 120 priests sounding trumpets.

Quote:

Psalm 150:4-5 (NIV)

4 praise him with timbrel and dancing,
praise him with the strings and pipe,
5 praise him with the clash of cymbals,
praise him with resounding cymbals.

Quote:

Nehemiah 12:27 (NIV)

27 At the dedication of the wall of Jerusalem, the Levites were sought out from where they lived and were brought to Jerusalem to celebrate joyfully the dedication with songs of thanksgiving and with the music of cymbals, harps and lyres.

Quote:

Ezra 3:10-13 (NIV)

10 When the builders laid the foundation of the temple of the Lord, the priests in their vestments and with trumpets, and the Levites (the sons of Asaph) with cymbals, took their places to praise the Lord, as prescribed by David king of Israel. 11 With praise and thanksgiving they sang to the Lord:

“He is good;
his love toward Israel endures forever.”

And all the people gave a great shout of praise to the Lord, because the foundation of the house of the Lord was laid. 12 But many of the older priests and Levites and family heads, who had seen the former temple, wept aloud when they saw the foundation of this temple being laid, while many others shouted for joy. 13 No one could distinguish the sound of the shouts of joy from the sound of weeping, because the people made so much noise. And the sound was heard far away.

Loud. Noisy. Overwhelming emotion. Complete opposite of what Denlinger is teaching. These verses are talking about a moment of true repentance too. What does that tell you? More positive associations with lively music.

Further, YHWH never spoke badly of the type of music played at his appointed feasts (that he lists in Leviticus 23) either. The joyful songs played during the feasts were also lively, hence why, when he threatened to take their "joy" away when they backslipped/disobeyed, that included taking away his feasts and the music played therein (Isaiah 24:8; Jeremiah 7:34; Lamentations 5:14; Ezekiel 26:13; Hosea 2:11). It wasn't mellow music. Celebratory music, especially from the Middle East, rarely is mellow (if ever?).

Ironically enough, as these verses show, biblical music is very rhythmic and loud; the instruments in scripture actually resemble those used in Africa.

For example, this ancient Lyre:



To reiterate: nothing against the "Old Hymns" he's referring to, because I do like mellow music myself, but to say the rhythmic music that makes your body want to move is somehow less godly, is just plain unbiblical. He didn't play a single example of rhythmic music that was godly, only the ungodly ones (and IMO crappy ones, lol; not even secular people would enjoy it I think). And of course, the bible itself describes very rhythmic and loud music that makes you want to dance. I do agree though that "Screamo" is nowhere near biblical or godly; that kind of music just induces anger. It sounds hateful to the ear.

As for how ancient Israelite music may have sounded, this uses the same kind of instruments and is middle eastern: http://youtu.be/JDycKNMkwFo . The first 60 seconds should give you a pretty good idea.

I'm in a crunch for time; I'll be listening to part 2 later. I'm listening to "Part 2" now, and everything I just posted debunks his whole intro. I'll keep listening though.

edited  

[Ratsah]

I think it can go both ways, is what I think he's trying to point out.

4 Then an herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O people, nations, and languages,

5 That at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of musick, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up:

6 And whoso falleth not down and worshiper shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.

7 Therefore at that time, when all the people heard the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and all kinds of musick, all the people, the nations, and the languages, fell down and worshiped the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king had set up.

It is all about how and where you play the music and towards what purpose you play it as, that constitutes for good worship or bad worship. I think he personally like the lighter side of the spectrum. I do agree with what he says in terms of some Christian groups trying to conform to heavy metal, and vocal styles to appeal to the "lost" but that's just that they are lost. If they don't have a bone of respect for God in the first place it's really a waste of time. =  

[Jewelies]

I've only been able to listen to the first recording, but...I did have some concerns about some of the stuff he's saying.

He seems to be saying that all rock music is evil, even Christian rock. I have to disagree. I feel that if music points to God, makes you think about God, reflects on God, gives God the glory, worships God, etc., I honestly can't see how it's evil.

I do agree that satan knows music. Satan had instruments built into his body, of course he knows music. That's why there is such vastly perverted, satanic and demonic music in the world. I just disagree that it's the beat and/or rhythm that innately make a song satanic in nature. There is a lot of Christian rock that points directly to God, why would satan make music that draws people to God? That makes no sense. His goal is to kill and destroy, to draw people away from God.

There's some other stuff too, but it would take forever to type up everything. I do agree very much that as Christians we have to be careful about what we listen to, however I just can't agree with what he's saying. I listen to Christian rock myself and I can say that the only thing it does is make me think of God. It doesn't make me feel promiscuous, angry, depressed or anything of the like.

Also his argument that Christian Rock makes people not have to admit that they're sinners is just...not right. Just look up the song 'But you Love me Anyways' by Sidewalk Prophets. That song is all about how we're sinners, how we so don't deserve God's love, but that he loves us anyways. The song doesn't preach 'you don't have to change', either.

I'm done now. I'm sorry if I wasn't supposed to post in here, I'll delete my post if I'm not. DX I'm really not used to guilds.  

[Ratsah]

Jewelies

I've only been able to listen to the first recording, but...I did have some concerns about some of the stuff he's saying.

He seems to be saying that all rock music is evil, even Christian rock. I have to disagree. I feel that if music points to God, makes you think about God, reflects on God, gives God the glory, worships God, etc., I honestly can't see how it's evil.

I do agree that satan knows music. Satan had instruments built into his body, of course he knows music. That's why there is such vastly perverted, satanic and demonic music in the world. I just disagree that it's the beat and/or rhythm that innately make a song satanic in nature. There is a lot of Christian rock that points directly to God, why would satan make music that draws people to God? That makes no sense. His goal is to kill and destroy, to draw people away from God.

There's some other stuff too, but it would take forever to type up everything. I do agree very much that as Christians we have to be careful about what we listen to, however I just can't agree with what he's saying. I listen to Christian rock myself and I can say that the only thing it does is make me think of God. It doesn't make me feel promiscuous, angry, depressed or anything of the like.

Also his argument that Christian Rock makes people not have to admit that they're sinners is just...not right. Just look up the song 'But you Love me Anyways' by Sidewalk Prophets. That song is all about how we're sinners, how we so don't deserve God's love, but that he loves us anyways. The song doesn't preach 'you don't have to change', either.

I'm done now. I'm sorry if I wasn't supposed to post in here, I'll delete my post if I'm not. DX I'm really not used to guilds.

Don't worry, you can post anywhere you want. razz Yeah, I disagree with the rhythm objections he made, because the Jews did use to use cymbals and so forth after victories and celebration feasts and shouldn't be frowned on. From my experience the heavier drum beats kinda distract from Praise and exalts the flesh over the spirit. I think that's what he was mainly concerned over. May have not come out so clear.  

[Rednal]

*Falls over laughing*

There's nothing inherently good or evil about different elements of music. Sure, particular beats, tunes, and styles can make people feel certain ways, but... far too many people usually go for the idea that "If I don't like it, or if I don't understand it, then it must be bad!"

I mean, does Satan know music? ...Yeah, sure, probably. And Hitler ate sugar. Do we ban things just because bad people know of them and/or enjoy them? Of course not. I mean, heck there's Christian death metal, of which my only complaint is that I can't understand a word and have to take the lyrics entirely on faith because of how raspy and incomprehensible it is. Much like many parts of religion. XD

...

Seriously, though. Blaming rhythms or tunes as somehow inherently bad? I can't agree with anything of that sort. I think there's more important things to focus on.