matthew 7:22-what does it mean???

[Masrur Fanalis]

◄ Matthew 7:22 ►

New International Version (©2011)

Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?'

These people obviously thought they were of Jesus, but in verse 23, Jesus rejects them. These people were good. They probably knew Jesus because they said "in your name". Why did Jesus reject them?  

[Rednal]

...Are you sure that's the right verse? Looking in my bible, it seems a bit different...  

[Masrur Fanalis]

Rednal

...Are you sure that's the right verse? Looking in my bible, it seems a bit different...

Is it NIV?  

[Rednal]

Wait, nevermind. sweatdrop I was looking at the wrong area. Um, let's see...

From the context of the section as a whole, I believe it's talking about actually believing in God and honestly working to follow His will. Simply saying "I do this in the name of God!" doesn't mean that people are actually following Him. You can't do wrong, claim it's in the name of God, and that somehow makes it good. Also, liars who use faith to take advantage of others best reconsider their actions...

...

In other words, you can't just call yourself a Christian. You have to be one.  

[Masrur Fanalis]

Rednal

Wait, nevermind. sweatdrop I was looking at the wrong area. Um, let's see...

From the context of the section as a whole, I believe it's talking about actually believing in God and honestly working to follow His will. Simply saying "I do this in the name of God!" doesn't mean that people are actually following Him. You can't do wrong, claim it's in the name of God, and that somehow makes it good. Also, liars who use faith to take advantage of others best reconsider their actions...

...

In other words, you can't just call yourself a Christian. You have to be one.

But they said "Lord,Lord..." it would seem as if they knew him. Also, how can you take advantage of someone by helping them? They prophesied, healed, and rebuked demons in HIS name. Is it because they thought it was works that would save them?  

[Rednal]

Well, for example, you could charge ridiculous fees for things that ought to be done at little or no cost. Remember how Jesus went on a rampage inside the Temple? Sacrifices were, themselves, ordered by the Lord... but it's possible to do it wrong. Also, false prophets, claiming to have divine revelations they actually don't. It seems to me these people wouldn't truly be acting in a Godly fashion; their claims to do things in His name would, in effect, be lies.  

[Masrur Fanalis]

Rednal

Well, for example, you could charge ridiculous fees for things that ought to be done at little or no cost. Remember how Jesus went on a rampage inside the Temple? Sacrifices were, themselves, ordered by the Lord... but it's possible to do it wrong. Also, false prophets, claiming to have divine revelations they actually don't. It seems to me these people wouldn't truly be acting in a Godly fashion; their claims to do things in His name would, in effect, be lies.

Hmm. Sounds right  

[jack0076970]

yes, NIV
full text for reference
NIV - 21“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

KJV - 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It is reminiscent of the stark warning Jesus levelled against the scribes & pharisees when he declared "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors me with their lips, but their heart is far away from me." (Matthew 15:8, Mark 7:6)

The declaration from verse 22 is given at the time of judgement in defence of their right to enter heaven. "Look at all these great things I've done for You in Your name even!"

Paul in his letter to Timothy warns "1But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.2For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,3unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,4treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,5holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these."

Judas was counted as one of the twelve, when the disciples (and later another 70) went out at Jesus command "He gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease" (Mat 10:1) and they did and he did and yet did it do him any good in the end?

A "Sunday Christian" seems coined for those that "declare" their love for God by church attendance but show little evidence of it through the course of their daily lives the rest of the week. I recall one gentleman who stayed in a caravan with his wife on a property I was also renting at, one day came to church dressed nicely with his bible under his arm. At the preaching of the word he cried and so on. At home in the early afternoon after dinner I heard from the caravan the most abusive foul-mouthed attack on his wife... others are less obvious but God's eye is open unto all our deepest secrets, there is nothing that can be hidden from Him.  

[jack0076970]

IVovacane

Rednal

Wait, nevermind. sweatdrop I was looking at the wrong area. Um, let's see...

From the context of the section as a whole, I believe it's talking about actually believing in God and honestly working to follow His will. Simply saying "I do this in the name of God!" doesn't mean that people are actually following Him. You can't do wrong, claim it's in the name of God, and that somehow makes it good. Also, liars who use faith to take advantage of others best reconsider their actions...

...

In other words, you can't just call yourself a Christian. You have to be one.

But they said "Lord,Lord..." it would seem as if they knew him. Also, how can you take advantage of someone by helping them? They prophesied, healed, and rebuked demons in HIS name. Is it because they thought it was works that would save them?

That too... I kind of wonder at the idea of people that think good works will save them alone, what genuine motivation is behind it whether there is any conscious acknowledgement that we are saved by Jesus sacrifice & that alone. Don't get me wrong, good works are essential but they are the evidence of salvation rather than the means of it.
Maybe it is because while doing "good stuff" in Jesus name, they also clung to their love of sin and that has some serious consequences.  

[Masrur Fanalis]

jack0076970

IVovacane

Rednal

Wait, nevermind. sweatdrop I was looking at the wrong area. Um, let's see...

From the context of the section as a whole, I believe it's talking about actually believing in God and honestly working to follow His will. Simply saying "I do this in the name of God!" doesn't mean that people are actually following Him. You can't do wrong, claim it's in the name of God, and that somehow makes it good. Also, liars who use faith to take advantage of others best reconsider their actions...

...

In other words, you can't just call yourself a Christian. You have to be one.

But they said "Lord,Lord..." it would seem as if they knew him. Also, how can you take advantage of someone by helping them? They prophesied, healed, and rebuked demons in HIS name. Is it because they thought it was works that would save them?

That too... I kind of wonder at the idea of people that think good works will save them alone, what genuine motivation is behind it whether there is any conscious acknowledgement that we are saved by Jesus sacrifice & that alone. Don't get me wrong, good works are essential but they are the evidence of salvation rather than the means of it.
Maybe it is because while doing "good stuff" in Jesus name, they also clung to their love of sin and that has some serious consequences.

I wish I could tip your post but the tip button isn't there sweatdrop  

[jack0076970]

things must work differently in guilds. In the regular forums my online presence is hidden but here it's on for the world to see which is ok 'cause I'm among friends.  

[Rednal]

When you think about it, it's actually sort of bad to want to do things like casting demons out. The implication is that you want other people to be suffering somehow so that you can fix it; even if you're doing it in God's name, I think it's sort of bad to want the situation to be happening at all.

Also, emphasis on performing obvious works for others to see can take the focus away from God... again, bad.  

[Sachie Whitby]

The version of the Bible I own has footnotes. I'm not going to type them all out concerning chapter 7, but here is what is written that covers that part you're asking about:

Quote:

7:21-23 The attack on the false prophets is continued, but is broadened to include those disciples who perform works of healing and exorcism in the name of Jesus (Lord) but live evil lives. Entrance into the kingdom is only for those who do the will of the Father. On the day of judgement (on that day) the morally corrupt prophets and miracle workers will be rejected by Jesus.

The short version is that Jesus rejects people who claim to perform good deeds in his name but in actually are morally corrupt.  

[Masrur Fanalis]

Sachie Whitby

The version of the Bible I own has footnotes. I'm not going to type them all out concerning chapter 7, but here is what is written that covers that part you're asking about:

Quote:

7:21-23 The attack on the false prophets is continued, but is broadened to include those disciples who perform works of healing and exorcism in the name of Jesus (Lord) but live evil lives. Entrance into the kingdom is only for those who do the will of the Father. On the day of judgement (on that day) the morally corrupt prophets and miracle workers will be rejected by Jesus.

The short version is that Jesus rejects people who claim to perform good deeds in his name but in actually are morally corrupt.

So...sinners? o- o
or people who just do it and havent accepted jesus?
or....?  

[Sachie Whitby]

IVovacane

Sachie Whitby

The version of the Bible I own has footnotes. I'm not going to type them all out concerning chapter 7, but here is what is written that covers that part you're asking about:

Quote:

7:21-23 The attack on the false prophets is continued, but is broadened to include those disciples who perform works of healing and exorcism in the name of Jesus (Lord) but live evil lives. Entrance into the kingdom is only for those who do the will of the Father. On the day of judgement (on that day) the morally corrupt prophets and miracle workers will be rejected by Jesus.

The short version is that Jesus rejects people who claim to perform good deeds in his name but in actually are morally corrupt.

So...sinners? o- o
or people who just do it and havent accepted jesus?
or....?

Not sinners in general.... Mathew 7:15-23 specifically concerns false prophets, with prophets specifically defined as people who spoke in the name of God. Essentially what is going on here is that Jesus is rejecting false prophets [as in people who claim to act in the name of God but in reality, do not.]