False doctrines

[Masrur Fanalis]

You know, I noticed that there are many false doctrine that I've learned throughout my years as a christian that aren't biblical. I thought they were true, until I actually went to see what the Bible says.

List of false doctrine I've come upon:

*Jesus went to hell
*Adam wasn't with Eve when she was being tempted
*The thief did go to heaven with Jesus that very day
*"Catching" the Holy Spirit
*Faith AND works get you to heaven
*We go straight to heaven once we die to be judged by God.
*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation)  

[Ratsah]

Suigetsushi-Otouto

You know, I noticed that there are many false doctrine that I've learned throughout my years as a christian that aren't biblical. I thought they were true, until I actually went to see what the Bible says.

List of false doctrine I've come upon:

*Jesus went to hell
*Adam wasn't with Eve when she was being tempted
*The thief did go to heaven with Jesus that very day
*"Catching" the Holy Spirit
*Faith AND works get you to heaven
*We go straight to heaven once we die to be judged by God.
*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation)

Jesus did in fact went to Abraham's Bosom (paradise separated by a Gulf and across the Gulf was Hell, where the rich man went) to resurrect Lazarus.

Luke 16:23 | Read whole chapter | See verse in context
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Hell in the Greek, Hades. In the Hebrew Sheol.  

[real eyes realize]

Suigetsushi-Otouto

List of false doctrine I've come upon:

*Jesus went to hell disagree; like Hamul mentioned, he did go to Sheol/Hades/the grave

*Adam wasn't with Eve when she was being tempted agree; Genesis 3:7

*The thief did go to heaven with Jesus that very day; half-false; both the thief and Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom in Sheol, like Hamul mentioned

*"Catching" the Holy Spirit ??? I don't even know what that is lol.

*Faith AND works get you to heaven It is false in this sense: relying on your own works/ your own ideas of righteousness won't get you in; relying on God's work (his redemption of you, atonement sacrifice, and how he sanctifies you through his word, him working through you) does.

*We go straight to heaven once we die to be judged by God. agree; we go to Sheol (Abraham's bosom side for believers, torturous side for non-believers); breath goes back to God; we wait for the resurrection.

*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation) ??? I know he is God, I don't know what you mean by "a god" ? Mind quoting the verse?

 

[Masrur Fanalis]

real eyes realize

Suigetsushi-Otouto

List of false doctrine I've come upon:

*Jesus went to hell disagree; like Hamul mentioned, he did go to Sheol/Hades/the grave

*Adam wasn't with Eve when she was being tempted agree; Genesis 3:7

*The thief did go to heaven with Jesus that very day; half-false; both the thief and Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom in Sheol, like Hamul mentioned

*"Catching" the Holy Spirit ??? I don't even know what that is lol.

*Faith AND works get you to heaven It is false in this sense: relying on your own works/ your own ideas of righteousness won't get you in; relying on God's work (his redemption of you, atonement sacrifice, and how he sanctifies you through his word, him working through you) does.

*We go straight to heaven once we die to be judged by God. agree; we go to Sheol (Abraham's bosom side for believers, torturous side for non-believers); breath goes back to God; we wait for the resurrection.

*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation) ??? I know he is God, I don't know what you mean by "a god" ? Mind quoting the verse?

"In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word was a god."

"Catching the Holy Spirit" or "Slain in the spirit" is a behavior of having no control over yourself thinking that it is the Holy Spirit: laughing uncontrollably, speaking tongues all of a sudden but really just talking mumbo jumbo, ect ect

I disagree. We are in a deep sleep and we have no conscience when we die. I g2g for now. Ttyl  

[Masrur Fanalis]

Hamul

Suigetsushi-Otouto

You know, I noticed that there are many false doctrine that I've learned throughout my years as a christian that aren't biblical. I thought they were true, until I actually went to see what the Bible says.

List of false doctrine I've come upon:

*Jesus went to hell
*Adam wasn't with Eve when she was being tempted
*The thief did go to heaven with Jesus that very day
*"Catching" the Holy Spirit
*Faith AND works get you to heaven
*We go straight to heaven once we die to be judged by God.
*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation)

Jesus did in fact went to Abraham's Bosom (paradise separated by a Gulf and across the Gulf was Hell, where the rich man went) to resurrect Lazarus.

Luke 16:23 | Read whole chapter | See verse in context
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Hell in the Greek, Hades. In the Hebrew Sheol.

How come Lazarus didn't speak of anything when he died? Because he had no conscience...

I think that story was just a parable. I should look at it more...  

[Masrur Fanalis]

Hamul

Suigetsushi-Otouto

You know, I noticed that there are many false doctrine that I've learned throughout my years as a christian that aren't biblical. I thought they were true, until I actually went to see what the Bible says.

List of false doctrine I've come upon:

*Jesus went to hell
*Adam wasn't with Eve when she was being tempted
*The thief did go to heaven with Jesus that very day
*"Catching" the Holy Spirit
*Faith AND works get you to heaven
*We go straight to heaven once we die to be judged by God.
*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation)

Jesus did in fact went to Abraham's Bosom (paradise separated by a Gulf and across the Gulf was Hell, where the rich man went) to resurrect Lazarus.

Luke 16:23 | Read whole chapter | See verse in context
And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

Hell in the Greek, Hades. In the Hebrew Sheol.

"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going."

The grave

It does not mean "hell," as Judaism has never had the concept of a hell.  

[Masrur Fanalis]

real eyes realize

Suigetsushi-Otouto

List of false doctrine I've come upon:

*Jesus went to hell disagree; like Hamul mentioned, he did go to Sheol/Hades/the grave

*Adam wasn't with Eve when she was being tempted agree; Genesis 3:7

*The thief did go to heaven with Jesus that very day; half-false; both the thief and Jesus went to Abraham's Bosom in Sheol, like Hamul mentioned

*"Catching" the Holy Spirit ??? I don't even know what that is lol.

*Faith AND works get you to heaven It is false in this sense: relying on your own works/ your own ideas of righteousness won't get you in; relying on God's work (his redemption of you, atonement sacrifice, and how he sanctifies you through his word, him working through you) does.

*We go straight to heaven once we die to be judged by God. agree; we go to Sheol (Abraham's bosom side for believers, torturous side for non-believers); breath goes back to God; we wait for the resurrection.

*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation) ??? I know he is God, I don't know what you mean by "a god" ? Mind quoting the verse?

Yes, they both went to the grave. But, the grave isn't Jesus' kingdom.

Ecclesiastes 9:5,10 (NIV) For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward and even the memory of them is forgotten WHATEVER your hand finds to do, DO IT WITH ALL YOUR MIGHT for in the grave, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 ESV

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. ...  

[real eyes realize]

There are two main reasons why I don't think it's a parable:

1) unlike the other examples where he explicitly says, "I'm about to tell you a parable" or "then Jesus told them a parable", such a statement is absent (neither introducing it as a parable nor as an outro declaring it to have been a parable). For instance, Matthew 13:3, 24, 31, 33, all those parables are introduced as parables and after he's told all the parables, it reiterates "When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there" down in v. 53). Whether it's the use of an intro or outro, both are absent from the incident described in Luke 16:19-31.

2) Something else that is characteristic of the other parables, but that is absent from Luke 16:19-31: the earthly example that demonstrates a spiritual truth. What's the analogy? For example, in three different parables, the "lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son" all three objects are representations of a straying Israelite who repents (Luke 15:7, 10, 32); Another example, we're told the "harvest" in Matthew 13 represents the end of the age and the "harvesters/reapers" represent the angels (Matthew 13:39). That kind of analogy/representation is absent from Luke 16:19-31. Jesus jumps straight into describing "something" that is other worldly.


edit:

Suigetsushi-Otouto

Yes, they both went to the grave. But, the grave isn't Jesus' kingdom.

Agree. The Kingdom takes place on the planet hence our need to be resurrected.

another edit, lol: I know this isn't directed at me, but this...

Quote:

"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going."

The grave

It does not mean "hell," as Judaism has never had the concept of a hell.

...doesn't prove one's soul isn't feeling anything in the afterlife. What you learned on earth will not benefit you in the place of rest/comfort or torture that you're going to; you won't be able to put it to use, it's a different environment and not a place you go to "to produce" anything or "apply wisdom" as you wait for the resurrection. Nor can you see what your family is doing (hence the rich man asking Abraham to resurrect Lazarus in order to be able to communicate with the family he left behind). They were carried away by the angels (Luke 16:22), at least it explicitly states that Lazarus was. It's another plane of existence, IMO.  

[Masrur Fanalis]

real eyes realize

There are two main reasons why I don't think it's a parable:

1) unlike the other examples where he explicitly says, "I'm about to tell you a parable" or "then Jesus told them a parable", such a statement is absent (neither introducing it as a parable nor as an outro declaring it to have been a parable). For instance, Matthew 13:3, 24, 31, 33, all those parables are introduced as parables and after he's told all the parables, it reiterates "When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there" down in v. 53). Whether it's the use of an intro or outro, both are absent from the incident described in Luke 16:19-31.

2) Something else that is characteristic of the other parables, but that is absent from Luke 16:19-31: the earthly example that demonstrates a spiritual truth. What's the analogy? For example, in three different parables, the "lost sheep, the lost coin, the lost son" all three objects are representations of a straying Israelite who repents (Luke 15:7, 10, 32); Another example, we're told the "harvest" in Matthew 13 represents the end of the age and the "harvesters/reapers" represent the angels (Matthew 13:39). That kind of analogy/representation is absent from Luke 16:19-31. Jesus jumps straight into describing "something" that is other worldly.


edit:

Suigetsushi-Otouto

Yes, they both went to the grave. But, the grave isn't Jesus' kingdom.

Agree. The Kingdom takes place on the planet hence our need to be resurrected.

another edit, lol: I know this isn't directed at me, but this...

Quote:

"All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going."

The grave

It does not mean "hell," as Judaism has never had the concept of a hell.

...doesn't prove one's soul isn't feeling anything in the afterlife. What you learned on earth will not benefit you in the place of rest/comfort or torture that you're going to; you won't be able to put it to use, it's a different environment and not a place you go to "to produce" anything or "apply wisdom" as you wait for the resurrection. Nor can you see what your family is doing (hence the rich man asking Abraham to resurrect Lazarus in order to be able to communicate with the family he left behind). They were carried away by the angels (Luke 16:22), at least it explicitly states that Lazarus was. It's another plane of existence, IMO.

I will research the topic about the thief and Jesus more. I still don't know the definite answer of this. But, I will hold onto the opinion that the thief didn't go with him that very day until I find out more about it...because Jesus did say "...I have not ascended to the Father yet."

So here's some new news. I talked to my father about this and he said that the story of the rich man and lazarus, was in fact, true and not a parable. I've learned something new today. :3

Also, that Lazarus was the same one who Jesus ressurected and wept for.

Btw, what is "Abraham's bosom"? I would like to learn more...

I still do hold onto the fact that Jesus didn't go to hell though...but he did go to the grave.  

[real eyes realize]

Suigetsushi-Otouto

I will research the topic about the thief and Jesus more. I still don't know the definite answer of this. But, I will hold onto the opinion that the thief didn't go with him that very day until I find out more about it...because Jesus did say "...I have not ascended to the Father yet."

So here's some new news. I talked to my father about this and he said that the story of the rich man and lazarus, was in fact, true and not a parable. I've learned something new today. :3

Also, that Lazarus was the same one who Jesus ressurected and wept for.

Btw, what is "Abraham's bosom"? I would like to learn more...

I still do hold onto the fact that Jesus didn't go to hell though...but he did go to the grave.

Well, yeah, "hell" to me is the grave. "Hell" is thrown into the lake of fire at end times (Revelation 20:14), so they're not the same place.

1) It doesn't appear to be the same Lazarus for two major reasons: first, they're relying on Moses' revelation to save them instead of Jesus; second, the Lazarus in Luke 16 is poor and alone living outside the Rich man's gate, but the Lazarus who fell sick (and that Jesus resurrected) lived with his sisters Martha and Mary in a house (John 11:1-2); verse 20 of that same chapter reveals they had a home. In keeping with the gospel of Luke, the fact that they own a house is recorded in Luke 10:38. edit: One Lazarus is totally destitute living on the streets; the other Lazarus is fine, living in a house with siblings, and from the sounds of it, his family is rich (his sister Mary owned a costly perfume which she bathed Jesus' feet in, in John 12:3; and in John 12:2 the Lazarus with the sisters is eating at a table; he wasn't starving, unlike the poor Lazarus of Luke 16).

2) The only biblical mention of "Abraham's Bosom" is in Luke 16:22 (http://biblehub.com/luke/16-22.htm); some other versions translate it to say "Abraham's side". It seems to be just that: the side of the chasm where you can find Abraham; it's the side of comfort, that's all I know.  

[Masrur Fanalis]

real eyes realize

Suigetsushi-Otouto

I will research the topic about the thief and Jesus more. I still don't know the definite answer of this. But, I will hold onto the opinion that the thief didn't go with him that very day until I find out more about it...because Jesus did say "...I have not ascended to the Father yet."

So here's some new news. I talked to my father about this and he said that the story of the rich man and lazarus, was in fact, true and not a parable. I've learned something new today. :3

Also, that Lazarus was the same one who Jesus ressurected and wept for.

Btw, what is "Abraham's bosom"? I would like to learn more...

I still do hold onto the fact that Jesus didn't go to hell though...but he did go to the grave.

Well, yeah, "hell" to me is the grave. "Hell" is thrown into the lake of fire at end times (Revelation 20:14), so they're not the same place.

1) It doesn't appear to be the same Lazarus for two major reasons: first, they're relying on Moses' revelation to save them instead of Jesus; second, the Lazarus in Luke 16 is poor and alone living outside the Rich man's gate, but the Lazarus who fell sick (and that Jesus resurrected) lived with his sisters Martha and Mary in a house (John 11:1-2); verse 20 of that same chapter reveals they had a home. In keeping with the gospel of Luke, the fact that they own a house is recorded in Luke 10:38. edit: One Lazarus is totally destitute living on the streets; the other Lazarus is fine, living in a house with siblings, and from the sounds of it, his family is rich (his sister Mary owned a costly perfume which she bathed Jesus' feet in, in John 12:3; and in John 12:2 the Lazarus with the sisters is eating at a table; he wasn't starving, unlike the poor Lazarus of Luke 16).

2) The only biblical mention of "Abraham's Bosom" is in Luke 16:22 (http://biblehub.com/luke/16-22.htm); some other versions translate it to say "Abraham's side". It seems to be just that: the side of the chasm where you can find Abraham; it's the side of comfort, that's all I know.

1) Ah. I've heard that when Jesus was telling the story of the richman and Lazarus, he was prophecying Lazarus' second death. Hnng. Idk...lol

2)Ah. Well I know what's for certain, we will have all our questions answered. c:  

[Masrur Fanalis]

real eyes realize

Suigetsushi-Otouto

I will research the topic about the thief and Jesus more. I still don't know the definite answer of this. But, I will hold onto the opinion that the thief didn't go with him that very day until I find out more about it...because Jesus did say "...I have not ascended to the Father yet."

So here's some new news. I talked to my father about this and he said that the story of the rich man and lazarus, was in fact, true and not a parable. I've learned something new today. :3

Also, that Lazarus was the same one who Jesus ressurected and wept for.

Btw, what is "Abraham's bosom"? I would like to learn more...

I still do hold onto the fact that Jesus didn't go to hell though...but he did go to the grave.

Well, yeah, "hell" to me is the grave. "Hell" is thrown into the lake of fire at end times (Revelation 20:14), so they're not the same place.

1) It doesn't appear to be the same Lazarus for two major reasons: first, they're relying on Moses' revelation to save them instead of Jesus; second, the Lazarus in Luke 16 is poor and alone living outside the Rich man's gate, but the Lazarus who fell sick (and that Jesus resurrected) lived with his sisters Martha and Mary in a house (John 11:1-2); verse 20 of that same chapter reveals they had a home. In keeping with the gospel of Luke, the fact that they own a house is recorded in Luke 10:38. edit: One Lazarus is totally destitute living on the streets; the other Lazarus is fine, living in a house with siblings, and from the sounds of it, his family is rich (his sister Mary owned a costly perfume which she bathed Jesus' feet in, in John 12:3; and in John 12:2 the Lazarus with the sisters is eating at a table; he wasn't starving, unlike the poor Lazarus of Luke 16).

2) The only biblical mention of "Abraham's Bosom" is in Luke 16:22 (http://biblehub.com/luke/16-22.htm); some other versions translate it to say "Abraham's side". It seems to be just that: the side of the chasm where you can find Abraham; it's the side of comfort, that's all I know.

Hell is seperation from God. I assure you, you will not be seperated from God once you enter your grave. c:  

[CherieBunnie]

Masrur Fanalis

*Jesus is a god (referring to the New World Translation)

Jesus is God. He and the Father are one.

1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 10:30 I and my Father are one.

1 John 5:7 (you won't find this in the new bible versions) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace