Astral Projection?

[-luhhs kii-]

Is this wrong in the terms of Christianity?

ALSO: Is coming in contact with spirits, trying to communicate, Ouija boards, etc. against our religion as well?  

[Garland-Green]

Christians are to find truth only in the words of God, as Jesus prays in John 17:17, "Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth."

A person trying to achieve an out-of-body experience in order to connect with spirits or the spirit world is practicing the occult. There are two forms of this. The first is called the “phasing” model, in which the person tries to find new spiritual truth by accessing a part of the mind that is "shut off" during everyday life. This practice is connected to Buddhism or postmodernism and the belief that enlightenment is achieved from looking within oneself. The other form, called the “mystical” model, is when the person tries to exit the body entirely, his/her spirit traveling to another plane that is not connected to the physical world at all.

The Bible explicitly warns against occult practice, or sorcery, in Galatians 5:19-20, saying that those who practice it will not inherit God's kingdom. God's commands are always for our good, and He commands us to stay far away from occult practices because there is great potential, when trying to access the spiritual world, of opening oneself up to demons who can tell us lies about God and confuse our minds. In Job 4:12-21, Eliphaz describes being visited by a lying spirit in a vision that tells him God does not regard humans and that He doesn't care for us, which is false! The phasing model is also futile, according to Scripture. Jeremiah 17:9 says, "The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately sick; who can understand it?" and 1 Corinthians 2:1-5 says, "When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. I came to you in weakness and fear, and with much trembling. My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit's power, so that your faith might not rest on men's wisdom, but on God's power." It is futile to search for infinite wisdom inside the finite mind of man.  

[Aquatic_blue]

Yes, astral projection is wrong. Sometimes if something has the term "astral" in it - question it, since astrology is wrong according to Christianity. Not only is astral projection wrong, but it is also dangerous. If you have your soul leave your body, what if something happens and you cannot put it back or something else invades your physical body and you can't get back in? Anything having to do with communicating with those among the dead can be dangerous. Using a ouija board is never a safe thing to do and even though people say, "You can have a safe ouija board session." Don't believe it - some things can come out that may take more power than one person or many people have to put it back because it doesn't want to go back. Ouija boards can have many consequences because that's a portal - you release something or a lot of different somethings that may be able to harm you since you are already communicating with these things.

Here are some Bible verses to think about:

Leviticus 19:31 NIV:

“‘Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:6 NIV:

“‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

Deuteronomy 18:10 - 13 NIV:

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

1 Chronicles 10:13 - 14 NIV:

Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.

2 Kings 21:5 - 6 NIV:

In the two courts of the temple of the LORD, he built altars to all the starry hosts. He sacrificed his own son in the fire, practiced divination, sought omens, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, arousing his anger.  

[-luhhs kii-]

Yup, I figured :/
I'll just stick to watching Insidious.

It just sucks cause I find it so interesting, all of it. But I know it is wrong and against God's will.  

[Aporeia]

Sigh... I'm in a combative mood today, so here we go.

Aquatic_blue

Yes, astral projection is wrong. Sometimes if something has the term "astral" in it - question it, since astrology is wrong according to Christianity.

Astral = dealing with stars.

Anyways, astral projection has nothing to do with astrology. Literally nothing.

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Not only is astral projection wrong, but it is also dangerous. If you have your soul leave your body, what if something happens and you cannot put it back or something else invades your physical body and you can't get back in?

Doesn't work like that. It's "projection." More like a flashlight, and less like you leaving your body unattended.

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Anything having to do with communicating with those among the dead can be dangerous. Using a ouija board is never a safe thing to do and even though people say, "You can have a safe ouija board session." Don't believe it - some things can come out that may take more power than one person or many people have to put it back because it doesn't want to go back. Ouija boards can have many consequences because that's a portal - you release something or a lot of different somethings that may be able to harm you since you are already communicating with these things.

Fun fact, the Ouija board was invented by employees of the Parker Brothers (Later bought by Hasbro) board game makers. It was made as a novelty toy. How it works is mostly a matter of leverage, and the collective desire of the group playing to try to force words to come out. Funny parlor trick, not really anything else.

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Here are some Bible verses to think about:

Leviticus 19:31 NIV:

“‘Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

m'kay...? Relative how? did you just want numbers?

Quote:

Leviticus 20:6 NIV:

“‘I will set my face against anyone who turns to mediums and spiritists to prostitute themselves by following them, and I will cut them off from their people.

Context, yo. Generally, when God starts throwing out words like "prostitute," he's talking about idolatry. Or prostitutes... but generally the "temple prostitutes" of various indigenous religious of the area they inhabited.

Quote:

Deuteronomy 18:10 - 13 NIV:

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD; because of these same detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. You must be blameless before the LORD your God.

Ooh, deuteronomy is fun. Should we also talk about women not wearing bracelets, hats, or jackets belonging to males, men doing vice versa, eating shellfish, women leaving the house on their periods, having multifiber clothing, breeding plants, or being near anyone for a day after an involuntary nocturnal emission?

No, because we're not Jews, we're Christian.

Quote:

1 Chronicles 10:13 - 14 NIV:

Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the LORD. So the LORD put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse.

M'kay? Numbers game again?

Quote:

2 Kings 21:5 - 6 NIV:

In the two courts of the temple of the LORD, he built altars to all the starry hosts. He sacrificed his own son in the fire, practiced divination, sought omens, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, arousing his anger.

See above.  

[Aquatic_blue]

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Fun fact, the Ouija board was invented by employees of the Parker Brothers (Later bought by Hasbro) board game makers. It was made as a novelty toy. How it works is mostly a matter of leverage, and the collective desire of the group playing to try to force words to come out. Funny parlor trick, not really anything else.

It may be marketed as an 'novelty toy' in stores, but this is one of Satan's hidden evils. Ouija boards are used to contact the dead. There's nothing "funny" about contacting the dead, and pulling something out you may not be able to put back.

In an instruction manual for a ouija board, also published by Parker Brothers, it includes this phrase:

"Weird and mysterious. Surpasses, in its unique results, mind reading, clairvoyance and second sight."

We are warned to stay away from things such as mind reading and telling the future, and one defintion of clairvoyance (from a dictionary) says, "the supernatural power of seeing objects or actions removed in space or time from natural viewing."

It says "supernatural power", "objects or actions removed in space or time from natural viewing".

All these things should be raising red flags. If something even suggests that it might be able to communicate with things of a supernatural nature besides God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit if God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit are included in the "supernatural" category, it's best to stay away from it. Satan is sneaky like this - marketing something so powerful as a "novelty toy".

Quote:

Context, yo. Generally, when God starts throwing out words like "prostitute," he's talking about idolatry. Or prostitutes... but generally the "temple prostitutes" of various indigenous religious of the area they inhabited.

"Prostitute" can have many meanings. A lot of them are similar, but there is one that can mean to be "unfaithful to God".

Strong's H2181 zanah:

1) to commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot

a) (Qal)

1) to be a harlot, act as a harlot, commit fornication

2) to commit adultery

3) to be a cult prostitute

4) to be unfaithful (to God) (fig.)

b) (Pual) to play the harlot

c) (Hiphil)

1) to cause to commit adultery

2) to force into prostitution

3) to commit fornication

In this context, people were being unfaithful to God by following mediums and spiritists.

Quote:

Ooh, deuteronomy is fun. Should we also talk about women not wearing bracelets, hats, or jackets belonging to males, men doing vice versa, eating shellfish, women leaving the house on their periods, having multifiber clothing, breeding plants, or being near anyone for a day after an involuntary nocturnal emission?

No, because we're not Jews, we're Christian.

Some of these things you list had a specific place and time before Jesus had sacrificed himself on the cross and God's grace had set us free from a lot of these rules.

As Christians, we are to follow The Holy Bible. Yes, some of it has changed such as not having to worry about the difference between "clean" and "unclean" food - as long as we give thanks for it, it's clean because God made the food clean according to what happened in Peter's Vision in Acts 10:9 - 23.

There are some things that we still do need to follow. For example, divination is something that no one should do because God clearly detests it. We are not to participate in such wicked activities such as sacrificing people, divination, interpreting omens, sorcery, witchcraft, spell casting, or consulting the dead. This is clearly said to us and applies to everybody.  

[Aporeia]

Aquatic_blue

Quote:

Fun fact, the Ouija board was invented by employees of the Parker Brothers (Later bought by Hasbro) board game makers. It was made as a novelty toy. How it works is mostly a matter of leverage, and the collective desire of the group playing to try to force words to come out. Funny parlor trick, not really anything else.

It may be marketed as an 'novelty toy' in stores, but this is one of Satan's hidden evils. Ouija boards are used to contact the dead. There's nothing "funny" about contacting the dead, and pulling something out you may not be able to put back.

In an instruction manual for a ouija board, also published by Parker Brothers, it includes this phrase:

"Weird and mysterious. Surpasses, in its unique results, mind reading, clairvoyance and second sight."

Congratulations for not comprehending a word I said. That takes... let's call it *something*.

Quote:

We are warned to stay away from things such as mind reading and telling the future, and one defintion of clairvoyance (from a dictionary) says, "the supernatural power of seeing objects or actions removed in space or time from natural viewing."

It says "supernatural power", "objects or actions removed in space or time from natural viewing".

All these things should be raising red flags. If something even suggests that it might be able to communicate with things of a supernatural nature besides God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit if God/Jesus/The Holy Spirit are included in the "supernatural" category, it's best to stay away from it. Satan is sneaky like this - marketing something so powerful as a "novelty toy".

And astral projection is neither clairvoyance nor necromancy.

Quote:

Quote:

Context, yo. Generally, when God starts throwing out words like "prostitute," he's talking about idolatry. Or prostitutes... but generally the "temple prostitutes" of various indigenous religious of the area they inhabited.

"Prostitute" can have many meanings. A lot of them are similar, but there is one that can mean to be "unfaithful to God".

Strong's H2181 zanah:

1) to commit fornication, be a harlot, play the harlot

a) (Qal)

1) to be a harlot, act as a harlot, commit fornication

2) to commit adultery

3) to be a cult prostitute

4) to be unfaithful (to God) (fig.)

b) (Pual) to play the harlot

c) (Hiphil)

1) to cause to commit adultery

2) to force into prostitution

3) to commit fornication

In this context, people were being unfaithful to God by following mediums and spiritists.

Going to go out on a limb here and say that said mediums/spiritualists were worshiping other gods, and demanding reverence/sacrifice for their services.

Quote:

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Ooh, deuteronomy is fun. Should we also talk about women not wearing bracelets, hats, or jackets belonging to males, men doing vice versa, eating shellfish, women leaving the house on their periods, having multifiber clothing, breeding plants, or being near anyone for a day after an involuntary nocturnal emission?

No, because we're not Jews, we're Christian.

Some of these things you list had a specific place and time before Jesus had sacrificed himself on the cross and God's grace had set us free from a lot of these rules.

As Christians, we are to follow The Holy Bible. Yes, some of it has changed such as not having to worry about the difference between "clean" and "unclean" food - as long as we give thanks for it, it's clean because God made the food clean according to what happened in Peter's Vision in Acts 10:9 - 23.

There are some things that we still do need to follow. For example, divination is something that no one should do because God clearly detests it. We are not to participate in such wicked activities such as sacrificing people, divination, interpreting omens, sorcery, witchcraft, spell casting, or consulting the dead. This is clearly said to us and applies to everybody.

Deuteronomy 22:5

“A woman shall not wear a man's garment, nor shall a man put on a woman's cloak, for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God.

Cool, so doing so is about the equivalent of giving your younger sibling your coat because you dressed in layers and they didn't.

That's an abomination, clearly, which is the same sort of language used to refer to the subject we're discussing.

I await your poorly indoctrinated reply.  

[Aquatic_blue]

Quote:

And astral projection is neither clairvoyance nor necromancy.

If the instruction manual to this board mentions "clairvoyance" being involved then there must be a possibility that it is involved or that some idea of it is involved - it raises a red flag for Christians. Although, unfortunately, I suppose some may be too blind to see it.

A lot of mediums have messed around with this board as well, and have made their own stuff using a planchette as a pointer, with tables and dials. If this resembles something a medium would use - I don't see why Christians have any business using it.

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Cool, so doing so is about the equivalent of giving your younger sibling your coat because you dressed in layers and they didn't.

That's an abomination, clearly, which is the same sort of language used to refer to the subject we're discussing.

I await your poorly indoctrinated reply.

Well, I see in your sentence that according to Deuteronomy 22:5 - you say, "Doing so is about the equivalent of giving your younger sibling your coat." and this does not correlate with Deuteronomy 22:5 because you've failed to identify the gender of the older and younger sibling - both could be male, both could be female, one could be male and the other female so this question cannot be answered according to the verse you posted. You have given no specification. When you say after that, "because you dressed in layers and they didn't." I don't see the issue with dressing in "layers". This is confusing your statement by putting Deuteronomy 22:5 with this because Deuteronomy 22:5 mentions cross-dressing, and nothing to do about layers. Be careful not to confuse your statement, but be specific in what it is exactly you are asking.

1 Corinthians 14:33 NIV:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Also, what Bible version are you using? I do not see the word "woman's cloak" in the NIV, KJV, 21st Century KJV, ASV, NLT, CJB, 1599 GB, NKJV, or WEB. Those aren't all the versions out there, but I wonder why it is in multiple versions I do not see the word "woman's cloak" but rather "women's clothing/woman's garment/woman's raiment". "Cloak" can be a part of a garment, but I don't use see a version that specifically says "cloak" by itself, but rather garment/clothing as in reference to many different types of attire that would belong to a woman.

I am also unsure why you keep asking questions considering you won't believe a word I say either way.  

[Ratsah]

Sounds out there to me. razz  

[Meili Kyumee Youichi]

@False Dichotomy:
It is true that we must always see the Bible in context; but it is much better appreciated if you explain your argument to support Astral projections [along with Bible verses] rather than looking where each Bible verses doesn't correctly address the issue of Astral projections. =]  

[Aporeia]

Meili Kyumee Youichi

@False Dichotomy:
It is true that we must always see the Bible in context; but it is much better appreciated if you explain your argument to support Astral projections [along with Bible verses] rather than looking where each Bible verses doesn't correctly address the issue of Astral projections. =]

Support is a strong word. I defend the irrelevance of it.  

[Aporeia]

Aquatic_blue

Quote:

And astral projection is neither clairvoyance nor necromancy.

If the instruction manual to this board mentions "clairvoyance" being involved then there must be a possibility that it is involved or that some idea of it is involved - it raises a red flag for Christians. Although, unfortunately, I suppose some may be too blind to see it.

A lot of mediums have messed around with this board as well, and have made their own stuff using a planchette as a pointer, with tables and dials. If this resembles something a medium would use - I don't see why Christians have any business using it.

Personal experience on the matter points to most people being full of ****, people taking on the mantle of "mediums" especially. It's an awareness thing, opening your eyes doesn't make it any less there. It's no more "clairvoyance" than taking a conscious effort to look in your bedroom for things you forgot were there.

Quote:

Cool, so doing so is about the equivalent of giving your younger sibling your coat because you dressed in layers and they didn't.

That's an abomination, clearly, which is the same sort of language used to refer to the subject we're discussing.

I await your poorly indoctrinated reply.

Well, I see in your sentence that according to Deuteronomy 22:5 - you say, "Doing so is about the equivalent of giving your younger sibling your coat." and this does not correlate with Deuteronomy 22:5 because you've failed to identify the gender of the older and younger sibling - both could be male, both could be female, one could be male and the other female so this question cannot be answered according to the verse you posted. You have given no specification. When you say after that, "because you dressed in layers and they didn't." I don't see the issue with dressing in "layers". This is confusing your statement by putting Deuteronomy 22:5 with this because Deuteronomy 22:5 mentions cross-dressing, and nothing to do about layers. Be careful not to confuse your statement, but be specific in what it is exactly you are asking.No, it didn't mean cross dressing, men and women more or less wore similar garments. It refers to a kind of "dating" custom, not far from one we have here, where men and women would give/swap clothing, such as jackets or bracelets as a sign of affection. It's actually referred to in more detail later on in Deuteronomy, but my point was intentionally about misuse of verses.

Few things in Deuteronomy apply to us, and many have connotations we are not aware of without extensive study. Cherry picking is also form of hypocrisy. Either you follow the whole law (barring blatant omissions, like food consumption), or you don't. You can't just say half the laws are irrelevant if you choose to choose to tell others certain cherry picked ones are still relevant.

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1 Corinthians 14:33 NIV:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace—as in all the congregations of the Lord’s people.

Matthew 10:34

I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword.

I can play that game too.

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Also, what Bible version are you using? I do not see the word "woman's cloak" in the NIV, KJV, 21st Century KJV, ASV, NLT, CJB, 1599 GB, NKJV, or WEB. Those aren't all the versions out there, but I wonder why it is in multiple versions I do not see the word "woman's cloak" but rather "women's clothing/woman's garment/woman's raiment". "Cloak" can be a part of a garment, but I don't use see a version that specifically says "cloak" by itself, but rather garment/clothing as in reference to many different types of attire that would belong to a woman.

Bible.cc, whatever translation is first on the list usually, they've got like 14 of them.

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I am also unsure why you keep asking questions considering you won't believe a word I say either way.

I already know what you're going to answer. I'm no stranger to any of these doctrines or thoughts. However, not all questions asked have the intent of you delivering an answer to me.  

[Garland-Green]

False Dichotomy

Meili Kyumee Youichi

@False Dichotomy:
It is true that we must always see the Bible in context; but it is much better appreciated if you explain your argument to support Astral projections [along with Bible verses] rather than looking where each Bible verses doesn't correctly address the issue of Astral projections. =]

Support is a strong word. I defend the irrelevance of it.

Nothing is irrelevant. Nothing, or no one can remain lukewarm, in the middle.

Revelation 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Romans 14:22-23
Everything that Does Not Come from Faith is Sin

Astral Projection is either something God wants you to do for your spiritual growth (Holy Spirit is all you need. John 14:26), or it is damaging to your relationship with God because you seek spiritual knowledge outside of Christ. I don't see God being indifferent to this since it is the way he has prepared for us to walk. There is no other way for people to have a personal relationship with God, or obtain any trustworthy spiritual knowledge. The purpose of Astral Projection as far as I have been able to tell is to have experience in the spirit world, the astral plane, attaining spiritual insight, and truth.

John 8: 32
And you will know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The truth is only in Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5, Ephesians 4:21). Going into a spirit world out of curiosity, or to seek truth is purposeless for someone who is saved (also for someone unsaved), and have the holy spirit. Having the truth living in us we know it and do not have to search anywhere. It could possibly also be dangerous since we know there are deceiving spirits out there. Why expose yourself to possible spiritual danger? If you have living waters coming from within that will never leave you thirsty what is the point in looking for water elsewhere? (John 7:38.)

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

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I await your poorly indoctrinated reply.

Please try to keep things polite and friendly. We are all here to understand God better, and his will for us, not to win an argument. Underhanded insults are against the guild rules and I see not option but to give you a warning.  

[Aporeia]

Garland-Green

False Dichotomy

Meili Kyumee Youichi

@False Dichotomy:
It is true that we must always see the Bible in context; but it is much better appreciated if you explain your argument to support Astral projections [along with Bible verses] rather than looking where each Bible verses doesn't correctly address the issue of Astral projections. =]

Support is a strong word. I defend the irrelevance of it.

Nothing is irrelevant. Nothing, or no one can remain lukewarm.

Revelation 3:16
So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

^ Does not equate to polarity. You're allowed to be on the fence about things. I don't care to get into my rant about what that verse actually refers to, but I will say I don't respond nicely to choppy bible quoting.

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Romans 14:22-23
Everything that Does Not Come from Faith is Sin

Like tying your shoes, or chewing bubble gum.

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Astral Projection is either something God wants you to do for your spiritual growth (Holy Spirit is all you need. John 14:26), or it is damaging to your relationship with God because you seek spiritual knowledge outside of Christ. I don't see God being indifferent to this since it is the way he has prepared for us to walk. There is no other way for people to have a personal relationship with God, or obtain any trustworthy spiritual knowledge.

Not all that's green is grass.

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The purpose of Astral Projection as far as I have been able to tell is to have experience in the spirit world, the astral plane, attaining spiritual insight, and truth.

Then you have a very poor understanding of it.

Quote:

John 8: 32
And you will know the Truth, and the Truth will set you free.

John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

The truth is only in Jesus Christ (1 Timothy 2:5, Ephesians 4:21). Going into a spirit world out of curiosity, or to seek truth is purposeless for someone who is saved (also for someone unsaved), and have the holy spirit. Having the truth living in us we know it and do not have to search anywhere. It could possibly also be dangerous since we know there are deceiving spirits out there. Why expose yourself to possible spiritual danger? If you have living waters coming from within that will never leave you thirsty what is the point in looking for water elsewhere? (John 7:38.)

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Sigh, the rest of this is irrelevant and rambling. I assume you lost the fox at the word "truth."  

[Inspirational ANON]

In terms of communicating with spirits, there are 9 gifts referenced in the bible and 1 is to be able to see and communicate with them. So in terms of that, it isn't wrong. If you need scripture reference, I can provide.