Eternal Security of the Believer?

[Garland-Green]

Can a believer fall from faith? Will God keep someone in the saving faith, against the persons will? There are some verses that indicate that a believer can become apostate. Feel free to share insight, and verses!

Hebrews 6:4-6 ESV
For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

2 Timothy 2:13 ESV
If we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself.

Hebrews 10:26 ESV
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,

Romans 8:38-39
38For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

What are your thoughts?  

[real eyes realize]

My stance: only if a person keeps believing.

Quote:

2 Timothy 2:12 (NIV)

12 if we endure,
    we will also reign with him.
    If we disown him,
    he will also disown us;

Quote:

1 Timothy 4:16 (NIV)

16 Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.

Quote:

1 Corinthians 15:2 (NIV)

2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

Quote:

James 1:12 (NIV)

12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.

On a personal note, I don't see how I can stop believing at this point. All the time I've spent getting to know him, going through experiences depending on him, taking a leap of faith in obeying his commands, even when I didn't see the reason behind it, and in the end the circumstance working out fine if not better—all of that has deepened my faith beyond the point of no return. I think it's impossible for a person like that to stop believing; one who has genuinely sought to develop their relationship with God can't stop.

Those who have a shallow faith are the ones in danger of walking away and not being saved. There was no genuine conversion, though they may have had an inkling of faith/belief in God/Jesus. When confronted with "deny God and live OR stick with God and die", people with shallow faith may negate him. And to quote Jesus directly:

Quote:

Matthew 10:33 (NIV)

33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Quote:

Mark 8:38 (NIV)

38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

To disown him means you actually owned him at one point but then discarded him.


Addressing the seemingly-contradictory verses in the OP: notice Romans 8 only talks about external things that try to separate you from God. But our choice to walk away can separate us from God. Ergo, nothing outside of our choice can separate us from God. And in 2 Tim 2:13, it's not communicating he's going to save you anyway, but that's he's going to stay loyal to what he said, even though we didn't to stay loyal to what we said. And what did he say? Believe and live, don't believe stay condemned/I won't save you. He's going to be faithful/loyal to what he originally pronounced, whether you choose life or death.

Quote:

John 3:18 (NIV)

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

[Biblical_Counselor]

I too believe that if we keep a hold and continue in the faith, we will remain secured in Christ.

Col. 1:22 - 23

In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister.

The key word is "if." There is if we do or if not we do. If we do this, we get this blessing, and if we don't, we don't inherit the blessing. Just like in the Old Testament, their faith was measured by their obedience. The same is applied here. I know that we are saved by faith and not of works. It is the Saving Power of Jesus that cleanses us from sin. But Jesus often says that if we are His disciples, we will continue in His Word and Keep His Word.

Works, in itself, is dead. But faith is works in action.

James 2:17 - 18

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

But can someone fall away or can become unsaved again? I think we are shifting the burden of proof. The question is not can someone fall away, but can someone not to continue in His Word. It says that we are His Disciples if we are continuing in His Word. (John 8 )

But in 1 Timothy 4, it says:

1 Timothy 4:1 - 2

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron.

The word "Spirit" is capitalized so the Holy Spirit is warning us that in the last days, some shall depart from the faith. Some people claims that the "some" are angels, which I disagree. Angels do not have faith. Faith is the things we do not seen, but Angels is in the realm of the knowing. They know God and talk to God. So I believe it is us.

But the interesting key is "depart from the faith." It is not the World depart in the faith. To depart of something, we must first be part of that something. So some (of us who are in the faith) shall depart from the faith. How? By giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrine of devils. The another thing to look at is "giving heed.' It means that we allowed it. If we allow the seducing spirits and the doctrine of devils to come into our lives, we could fall from the faith.  

[Yosim]

Hi, former atheist of 11 years here. My biggest battle is with disbelief, but through disbelief my faith is always refined. While I agree that enduring in faith is a necessary aspect of salvation, I take a Calvinist approach. I can testify that, by putting your money on "if we hold on tight" alone, we are doomed to incessant worry, which causes us to focus our reliance on ourselves, thus hinders our relationship with God who promises to lift us up. By grace we have been gifted Christ's resume, so I think the following psalm applies to us:

"The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, and He delights in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.” Psalm 37:23-24

Behold! What love the Father has lavished that we should be called children of God, and that is what we are. In the eyes of the Father, we are good; and David was keen to be aware that we are prone to falling. There is no translation that says "if we fall." It is certain we will, and just about every character in the Bible reflects that. It gets complicated here but we are absolutely responsible for falling. Even then, God is still sovereign, for "Many are the plans in a person's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails." Proverbs 19:21.

I learned about the gift of salvation through a slice of banana bread a friend shared with me. She gave me the fabulous bread she made, I only had to accept it by means of consuming it. After consuming it, I simply can't return the gif, nor would my loving friend ask for me to give it back. It is already in me and nourishing and energizing me. Much like the Holy Spirit- it has already entered us, thus compels and directs us. I think it wise to rest on that truth rather than question it. The trouble with stressing over our salvation is that it brings us to thinking subconsciously that we must earn it, and that is simply not why Jesus went through what he did. If my friend required payment or service for the bread, it would not be a gift, it would be an earning.

Can you imagine if he got so impatient with our falling and doubting and overlooking chances to be thankful that he took our gift back? Surely one who takes back a gift they have given because the receiver did not react as expected had works in mind. This is not love. God promises to sustain and uphold us, for he loves us! With everlasting, unchangeable, unbreakable, unfailing love! "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39. To think little old me and my moments of ignorance could change that.

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 12:10, "That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." It is said in Psalm 37:23 that "The steps of a man are established by the LORD, And He delights in his way." Surely "our way" includes our stumbles and strivings and pushing through trials, the way a father patiently watches his child walk and grins as they inevitably lose their balance. Surely God would not smite us in our moments of disbelief, and I can testify to his faithfulness and love because I have tested His patience myself. I believe, try as we may to return his gift, it simply remains in us and, he will always bring us back to faith. Hopefully this is encouraging to the reborn who fret over losing their gift.  

[Garland-Green]

Yosim

Hi, former atheist of 11 years here. My biggest battle is with disbelief, but through disbelief my faith is always refined. While I agree that enduring in faith is a necessary aspect of salvation, I take a Calvinist approach. I can testify that, by putting your money on "if we hold on tight" alone, we are doomed to incessant worry, which causes us to focus our reliance on ourselves, thus hinders our relationship with God who promises to lift us up. By grace we have been gifted Christ's resume, so I think the following psalm applies to us:

"The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD, and He delights in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down; For the LORD upholds him with His hand.” Psalm 37:23-24

Behold! What love the Father has lavished that we should be called children of God, and that is what we are. In the eyes of the Father, we are good; and David was keen to be aware that we are prone to falling. There is no translation that says "if we fall." It is certain we will, and just about every character in the Bible reflects that. It gets complicated here but we are absolutely responsible for falling. Even then, God is still sovereign, for "Many are the plans in a person's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails." Proverbs 19:21.

I learned about the gift of salvation through a slice of banana bread a friend shared with me. She gave me the fabulous bread she made, I only had to accept it by means of consuming it. After consuming it, I simply can't return the gif, nor would my loving friend ask for me to give it back. It is already in me and nourishing and energizing me. Much like the Holy Spirit- it has already entered us, thus compels and directs us. I think it wise to rest on that truth rather than question it. The trouble with stressing over our salvation is that it brings us to thinking subconsciously that we must earn it, and that is simply not why Jesus went through what he did. If my friend required payment or service for the bread, it would not be a gift, it would be an earning.

Can you imagine if he got so impatient with our falling and doubting and overlooking chances to be thankful that he took our gift back? Surely one who takes back a gift they have given because the receiver did not react as expected had works in mind. This is not love. God promises to sustain and uphold us, for he loves us! With everlasting, unchangeable, unbreakable, unfailing love! "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 8:38-39. To think little old me and my moments of ignorance could change that.

Paul says in 2 Corinthians 12:10, "That is why, for Christ's sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong." It is said in Psalm 37:23 that "The steps of a man are established by the LORD, And He delights in his way." Surely "our way" includes our stumbles and strivings and pushing through trials, the way a father patiently watches his child walk and grins as they inevitably lose their balance. Surely God would not smite us in our moments of disbelief, and I can testify to his faithfulness and love because I have tested His patience myself. I believe, try as we may to return his gift, it simply remains in us and, he will always bring us back to faith. Hopefully this is encouraging to the reborn who fret over losing their gift.

To me that sounds like a very healthy approach that probably provides a lot of peace for you. Also a very interesting way of being saved. I'll confess that I occasionally worry about falling away. I do realize that the Holy Spirit is a seal on the believer (Ephesians 1:13), and yet I worry. I am trying to articulate why I worry, but I can't quite express it. I think it is a fear of going back to where I was, to be left alone. To not have any foundation to stand on, or hope, of losing what is most important. I think also partly my fear is from not seeing the verses I first referred to in this post in the right light. Fear is often irrational isn't it. I think it also stems from remembering who I was, and what I would go back to. I do appreciate the banana bread analogy. smile

Romans 3:22
This righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile,

Galatians 3:27
for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Perhaps God use our falling and doubts to sanctify us. Maybe He is at work in us (Philippians 2:13), allowing us to doubt, to be bothered by concepts that are unsettling so that we can rely on Him for the answers, so that we can learn that even if we do not have all the answers we do have what matters the most, or that we do not have to have the answers to all those minor questions.

Isaiah 41:10
So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.

No. I can't really imagine God stripping people of their righteousness, if their righteousness is not based on work but based on Jesus. His righteousness being imputed to the believer. Rewards is another thing though. I think there will be people with very few rewards in Heaven, and who will get very stern talking to (Romans 14:12, Matthew 12:36) for actions they have done or words they have spoken that were not done in the Spirit.  

[Yosim]

Garland, I'm glad we can share the burden and lift each other up. I think the unnecessary worry is caused in part by social conditioning- one's worth is based on works, in many ways and in every culture I can think of. Even parents tend to base how they treat their children on whether or not their expectations are met. Luckily, God turns the collective intuition of society upside-down smile even chooses the weakest and least favored of us to lead. As a former proponent of natural selection, I'm constantly astounded by Christian insight and how distinctly it contrasts the wisdom of the world.

Oh man, the topic of works in heaven- if I'm stressing over anything as a Christian it's that, haha. I can't remember the last time I've done any good work purely for Christ. Surely God will compensate me for the small percentage of which I did razz  

[Marek James]

I used to have more of an Arminian belief on this, but have since begun to believe that yes "once saved, always saved". I did not "save" myself to begin with so how could I lose it? I simply repented and accepted Christ's finished work. And immediately I began to desire Him more and more and the world less and less. If it were up to me to keep it then, knowing myself and what God constitutes as sin, I would lose it everyday. Just the thought of lust is adulteress and hatred is akin to murder. My thought life alone would be enough.