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 Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:17 am
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“Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.” (Luke 12:33)
Comment:
Luke 12:34
34 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
“Don’t work to obtain food.” (John 6:27)
Comment:
John 6:26-27
Jesus answered them and said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. "Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."
Jesus was talking to his disciples who were more impressed by the amount of fish, than the power behind it. Having food in their bellies, rather than having
a soul that was not starving. Don't follow him to have your bellies filled, your desires of the world fulfilled, but to have your soul filled.
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:31 am
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“Don’t have sexual urges.” (Matthew 5:28.)
Comment
Matthew 5:28 -29
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.
He is saying human nature is corrupt. We all sin in our hearts.
He is saying your urges are not pure, that my urges are not pure.
God created sex, but he did not intend for us to have sex with someone outside of the relationship he has approved of. Sin is terrible. It would be better that you were blind than to commit this sin in your heart, repent.
“Make people want to persecute you.” (Matthew 5:11)
Comment;
Matthew 5:11-12
“Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Not at all what he is saying. He is saying that when people insult you,
and persecute you, you are blessed. The Bible teaches us that as far as it relies on us we should always attempt to live peacefully with those around us.
Hebrews 12:14
Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
“If someone steals from you, don’t try to get it back.” (Luke 6:30)
Comment:
Where is your heart?
“If someone hits you, invite them to do it again.” (Matthew 5:39)
Comment:
Romans 12:20
On the contrary: "If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."
Our objective is showing people our master, by our life. How we live.
If they treated my master bad, why should I expect better? If my master turned his cheek so they could hit it, why shouldn't I?
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:41 am
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“If you lose a lawsuit, give more than the judgment.” (Matthew 5:40)
Comment:
The plain instruction is, Suffer any injury that can be borne, for the sake of peace, committing your concerns to the Lord's keeping. And the sum of all is, that Christians must avoid disputing and striving. If any say, Flesh and blood cannot pass by such an affront, let them remember, that flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God; and those who act upon right principles will have most peace and comfort.
“If someone forces you to walk a mile, walk two miles.” (Matthew 5:41)
Comment:
You never know if this will give you the opportunity to preach the gospel,
and have a soul saved... Walk that extra mile!
“If anyone asks you for anything, give it to them without question.” (Matthew 5:42)
Comment:
Matthew 5:42
Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
It does not say without question. You should of course not give money to someone who will use the money to buy drugs etc. You can ask what it will be used on, and perhaps give something else than money if you fear that the person will harm themselves with the money you have given. You should give when asked, it doesn't say what you should give.
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:00 am
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You’re a fool regardless
“Whoever calls somebody a “fool” shall be in danger of hell fire.” (Matthew 5:22),
& Yet jesus called people fools himself
“You fools and blind men! Which is more important, the gold or the temple that sanctified the gold?” (Matthew 23:17)
God is going to hell as well:
“But God said unto him, [Thou] fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee.” In other words, Jesus says that he who says “thou fool” shall be in danger of hell fire, and then God says “Thou fool”. So, God is in danger of hell fire!” (Luke 12:20)
Comment:
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
The Jewish teachers had taught, that nothing except actual murder was forbidden by the sixth commandment. Thus they explained away its spiritual meaning. Christ showed the full meaning of this commandment; according to which we must be judged hereafter, and therefore ought to be ruled now. All rash anger is heart murder. By our brother, here, we are to understand any person, though ever so much below us, for we are all made of one blood. Raca, is a scornful word, and comes from pride: Thou fool, is a spiteful word, and comes from hatred. Malicious slanders and censures are poison that kills secretly and slowly. Christ told them that how light soever they made of these sins, they would certainly be called into judgment for them. We ought carefully to preserve Christian love and peace with all our brethren; and if at any time there is a quarrel, we should confess our fault, humble ourselves to our brother, making or offering satisfaction for wrong done in word or deed: and we should do this quickly; because, till this is done, we are unfit for communion with God in holy ordinances. And when we are preparing for any religious exercises, it is good for us to make that an occasion of serious reflection and self-examination. What is here said is very applicable to our being reconciled to God through Christ. While we are alive, we are in the way to his judgement-seat; after death, it will be too late. When we consider the importance of the case, and the uncertainty of life, how needful it is to seek peace with God, without delay!
My comment:
Who can see into man's heart, who weighs it? Who can truly say to a man,
"you fool", but He who can say based on insight into that man's heart. God knows man, God can forgive man's foolishness, God can point out man's foolishness, and can do so justly, because it is obvious and crystal clear to him. If he did not point it out, he would be leaving the man to his foolish devises.
What Jesus is also saying, is that it is with man often a result of injury of pride on the part of the one who uttered it, and now you may have hurt someone else, and given them reason to bare a grudge against you. He is telling us to reconcile with those that have a grudge against us. Don't go about your with your worship, unless you have made peace with your brother.
Matthew 5:23-24
"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:10 am
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Steal our free-will? What free-will? You’re considered a sinner for just about every. little. thing.
‘‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.” (Romans 14:11)
“By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.” (Isaiah 45:23)
“That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10)
Comment:
You are under the illusion that you have free-will. You can only really experience free-will when you are dead to sin. Because you are not attuned to true life through being a new creation in Jesus, you think that you are free, but the sins that you are accumulating are like invisible chains. Right now you are a slave to sin. The god of this world ( 2 Corinthians 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.) has you just where he wants you.
Romans 7:24
Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Until you understand that, you will not repent, you will refuse to see that these things are not good for you. I wish and pray that you could see! You are blind. Fumbling in darkness... Thinking the darkness is light, and the light is darkness.
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:27 am
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:55 pm
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I pray that our Heavenly Father opens his eyes too.
This past week, I actually touched upon some of these (racism, common origin, no "superiority" of the races; how to treat enemies, with kindness, thus heaping coals of shame on their heads, etc...), but from different individuals. And the one whom I wrote a longer reply, for some reason my post doesn't show up as a direct reply, so who knows if he saw it. Yay, technical difficulties. stare lol But anyone who reads after that will see it, so it's all good.
It was about Deuteronomy 21:18-21, "stoning sons", and he was claiming it supports child abuse, to which I explained:
I You're quoting what was done to drunkards and gluttons who didn't heed discipline from their parents (read verse 20: drunkards implies they are adult children; said person was still living with his aging parents and not listening, squandering away all their food on his own gluttony and being a drunk). That's not talking about rearing up a child/toddler/baby; that law describes executing a hedonist who's beyond repair. Such a person isn't helping anyone survive, including themselves, and is squandering away all the food on pleasure, thus is hurting the family's survival; the only reason his mother or father would have authority over him is if he still lived with them and was unmarried (biblically, once a person gets married they moved out and became the head of their own household) and if he's drunk the whole day, that definitely means he's not working, thus mooching off his aging parents. The law is actually righteous and was given for our own good, to keep people from being taken advantaged of, and take care of widows, orphans, foreigners and the poor (Exodus 22:22-24; Deuteronomy 10:18; Leviticus 19:10).
note: the article was about a Christian couple who put out this child-rearing book and it has resulted in some deaths; that's why this person quoted Deuteronomy to claim that the bible supports such a thing.
And another misconception:
Also I don't understand the God comments, there's nothing in the bible against animal abuse.
You used secular views to understand that and then attributed it to god.
note: this comment was taken from an online petition against animal abuse
I It's implied that righteous people take care of their animals, not abusing them. Proverbs 12:10 (NIV) 10 The righteous care for the needs of their animals, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel.
So, apparently, the world thinks abusing children and animals is supported by the bible. sigh~
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Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 9:57 pm
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Garland-Green Steal our free-will? What free-will? You’re considered a sinner for just about every. little. thing. ‘‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.” (Romans 14:11) “By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.” (Isaiah 45:23) “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10) Comment:
You are under the illusion that you have free-will. You can only really experience free-will when you are dead to sin. Because you are not attuned to true life through being a new creation in Jesus, you think that you are free, but the sins that you are accumulating are like invisible chains. Right now you are a slave to sin. The god of this world ( 2 Corinthians 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.) has you just where he wants you.
Romans 7:24
Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Until you understand that, you will not repent, you will refuse to see that these things are not good for you. I wish and pray that you could see! You are blind. Fumbling in darkness... Thinking the darkness is light, and the light is darkness.
The Romans 7 chapter is one of the passages I immediately thought of when I saw this portion of your post. Unregenerate human beings are free to do what depraved human beings do: choose sin! We can only do what it is in our nature to do. Even those in Christ are still warring with our sinful nature. We will only be completely free to choose good when Christ comes and changes us completely. Until then, the concept of 100% "freewill" is not exactly as people generally believe it to be. The Spirit is working in us to free us, to sanctify us, but we still battle back against it... and we will until the day we are transformed fully into the person a believer is meant to be at Jesus' second appearance smile
Romans 7.15 For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. 16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. 17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? |
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SolaceSerenitySerendipity
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 7:40 am
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Thanks for posting. Interesting reading to defend the Bible 4laugh
SolaceSerenitySerendipity Garland-Green Steal our free-will? What free-will? You’re considered a sinner for just about every. little. thing. ‘‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.” (Romans 14:11) “By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.” (Isaiah 45:23) “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10) Comment:
You are under the illusion that you have free-will. You can only really experience free-will when you are dead to sin. Because you are not attuned to true life through being a new creation in Jesus, you think that you are free, but the sins that you are accumulating are like invisible chains. Right now you are a slave to sin. The god of this world ( 2 Corinthians 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.) has you just where he wants you.
Romans 7:24
Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Until you understand that, you will not repent, you will refuse to see that these things are not good for you. I wish and pray that you could see! You are blind. Fumbling in darkness... Thinking the darkness is light, and the light is darkness.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
On a similar topic, I've been wondering:
God plans our life
Psalm 139:16
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
Jeremiah 29:11 ESV
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.
But we also have free will -> choices that affect our future.
How does that work?
Thanks in advance 3nodding
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:59 am
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real eyes realize I pray that our Heavenly Father opens his eyes too. This past week, I actually touched upon some of these (racism, common origin, no "superiority" of the races; how to treat enemies, with kindness, thus heaping coals of shame on their heads, etc...), but from different individuals. And the one whom I wrote a longer reply, for some reason my post doesn't show up as a direct reply, so who knows if he saw it. Yay, technical difficulties. stare lol But anyone who reads after that will see it, so it's all good. It was about Deuteronomy 21:18-21, "stoning sons", and he was claiming it supports child abuse, to which I explained: I You're quoting what was done to drunkards and gluttons who didn't heed discipline from their parents (read verse 20: drunkards implies they are adult children; said person was still living with his aging parents and not listening, squandering away all their food on his own gluttony and being a drunk). That's not talking about rearing up a child/toddler/baby; that law describes executing a hedonist who's beyond repair. Such a person isn't helping anyone survive, including themselves, and is squandering away all the food on pleasure, thus is hurting the family's survival; the only reason his mother or father would have authority over him is if he still lived with them and was unmarried (biblically, once a person gets married they moved out and became the head of their own household) and if he's drunk the whole day, that definitely means he's not working, thus mooching off his aging parents. The law is actually righteous and was given for our own good, to keep people from being taken advantaged of, and take care of widows, orphans, foreigners and the poor (Exodus 22:22-24; Deuteronomy 10:18; Leviticus 19:10). And another misconception: Also I don't understand the God comments, there's nothing in the bible against animal abuse.
You used secular views to understand that and then attributed it to god.note: this comment was taken from an online petition against animal abuseI It's implied that righteous people take care of their animals, not abusing them. Proverbs 12:10 (NIV) 10 The righteous care for the needs of their animals, but the kindest acts of the wicked are cruel. So, apparently, the world thinks abusing children and animals is supported by the bible. sigh~
How would you as a woman defend the Bible's position when it comes to women? I am talking to a woman right now who's a militant feminist, and she claims that the Bible teaches women are less worth than men, because man are told they are the head (Ephesians 5:23), and that woman should submit. I am obviously a man, so there is little I can say that will convince the opposite sex who wants to believe that this makes women somehow less worth in the eyes of God. I don't feel position of authority makes the one given authority over less of a person.
I feel here that there is an agenda of sorts when it comes to having a view of the Bible as sexist. That there is a political, or perhaps selfish motive behind such a position. What do you think? Sometimes when talking to someone I feel like no matter what argument I use it will not make them change position, because the position they hold somehow serves their purpose.
It is strange, how certain topics seems to have a way of popping up not just for one person... |
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:31 pm
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SolaceSerenitySerendipity Garland-Green Steal our free-will? What free-will? You’re considered a sinner for just about every. little. thing. ‘‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.” (Romans 14:11) “By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.” (Isaiah 45:23) “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10) Comment:
You are under the illusion that you have free-will. You can only really experience free-will when you are dead to sin. Because you are not attuned to true life through being a new creation in Jesus, you think that you are free, but the sins that you are accumulating are like invisible chains. Right now you are a slave to sin. The god of this world ( 2 Corinthians 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.) has you just where he wants you.
Romans 7:24
Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Until you understand that, you will not repent, you will refuse to see that these things are not good for you. I wish and pray that you could see! You are blind. Fumbling in darkness... Thinking the darkness is light, and the light is darkness.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
I could not agree more! "It is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me." You can't really see to make the right decisions to chose what is right,
unless you are enabled to. A new heart is needed. Up until that even the good you do, is fruitless. Bad trees can't give good fruit.
James 2:26
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
Matthew 7:16-18
16"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17"So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. |
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Posted: Tue Jan 07, 2014 12:59 pm
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Meili Kyumee Youichi Thanks for posting. Interesting reading to defend the Bible 4laugh SolaceSerenitySerendipity Garland-Green Steal our free-will? What free-will? You’re considered a sinner for just about every. little. thing. ‘‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord, ‘every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.” (Romans 14:11) “By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.” (Isaiah 45:23) “That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth” (Philippians 2:10) Comment:
You are under the illusion that you have free-will. You can only really experience free-will when you are dead to sin. Because you are not attuned to true life through being a new creation in Jesus, you think that you are free, but the sins that you are accumulating are like invisible chains. Right now you are a slave to sin. The god of this world ( 2 Corinthians 4:4 - The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.) has you just where he wants you.
Romans 7:24
Wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me out of the body of this death?
Until you understand that, you will not repent, you will refuse to see that these things are not good for you. I wish and pray that you could see! You are blind. Fumbling in darkness... Thinking the darkness is light, and the light is darkness.
21 So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. 22 For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, 23 but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?On a similar topic, I've been wondering: God plans our life Psalm 139:16
16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance; in your book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them.
Jeremiah 29:11 ESV
For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.But we also have free will -> choices that affect our future. How does that work? Thanks in advance 3nodding
Now this is a good question. Both are true. We have free will, but God somehow does not give up his sovereignty in our lives. It is not one vs. the other. He has still determined that we should be saved, and who is saved ( Ephesians 1:4), at the same time giving all the option to be saved. His sovereignty somehow operates within our free will, not diminishing the responsibility for our choices. Can God do that? Yes, it wouldn't be impossible for God to do that. How I can't say, and I doubt you get a good answer from a human being, since we are limited to what he has revealed to us. How he does this (how it is accomplished.) has not been revealed to us. If I could understand it - I think I would be God. Don't be uncomfortable, feel bad or panic that there are things in the Bible that we don't understand. It doesn't mean the Bible is wrong. Even Daniel the great Old Testament prophet confessed that he did not understand some of what God had told him to write.
Daniel 12:8
8 I heard, but I did not understand. Then I said, “O my lord, what shall be the outcome of these things?"
Rich Deem at godandscience.org attempted to draw up a picture on how it is accomplished. You can read it here.
Whether or not he was successful at this I leave up to you to judge for yourself. |
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Posted: Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:31 pm
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Garland-Green How would you as a woman defend the Bible's position when it comes to women? I am talking to a woman right now who's a militant feminist, and she claims that the Bible teaches women are less worth than men, because man are told they are the head (Ephesians 5:23), and that woman should submit. I am obviously a man, so there is little I can say that will convince the opposite sex who wants to believe that this makes women somehow less worth in the eyes of God. I don't feel position of authority makes the one given authority over less of a person. I feel here that there is an agenda of sorts when it comes to having a view of the Bible as sexist. That there is a political, or perhaps selfish motive behind such a position. What do you think? Sometimes when talking to someone I feel like no matter what argument I use it will not make them change position, because the position they hold somehow serves their purpose.
When I was in the world, I had the idea that anything making a clear distinction between the sexes was "sexist", and I went on to label it "inequality", even if it wasn't talking negatively or in terms of inferiority / "less than" language. That's probably what she's operating on.
One example that comes to mind: I had this Native American friend who annually celebrated these corn festivals with her tribe; and she was describing how the males would go hunt and the females would do the cooking. I asked her if a girl wanted to go hunt, instead of cook, would they let her? And she said, no. To which I replied, "Wow, that's so sexist". But they aren't thinking in terms of "woman are less than" so they must stay behind and do the cooking; that wasn't their attitude at all. They just assigned certain tasks based on the sexes.
Not that the bible is identical at all, but having a positive example of a Creator assigning the males and females different functions, without any notions of inferiority/superiority, I think did help me not have any prejudice against what I did end up coming across in scripture. Maybe she doesn't have any positive associations with the concept?
I think society has this misconception that the bible bans women from ever holding the same positions as men though; the bible does have prophets and prophetesses; males dedicated to the temple just like females (Samuel given to the temple; Jephthah's daughter remaining a virgin for life to serve in the temple), husband and wife working in the same profession (Aquila and Priscilla, both tent-makers, Acts 18:1-3; possibly Adam and Eve too if Adam's task was to tend the garden and God created Eve to help him, Genesis 2:15, 18-22).
Where I see "women submitting to men" is in a "husband-wife" relationship, or "father-daughter" relationship, but that doesn't mean submitting to all males around you just because they're male and you're not. Everyone, however, is suppose to submit to the authority figures above them regardless of said authority's sex (no male commoner has authority over Queen Esther or Queen Vashti; no male commoner has authority over Miriam, Moses' sister, who was a prophetess and who led the Israelites out of Egypt alongside Moses and Aaron). There's clearly a hierarchy. I'm sure the common person would have to submit to the word of a prophetess if it came from God. This isn't a case of, "oh, you're a woman, you're less than me because of it and I don't have to listen to your prophecy". That's not what we find.
Ultimately, God created them both. Women are not "worth less" or "inferior" to Adam unless God, in the bible, admits to having done a crappy job in creating woman. If we have a common creator, then we have the same level of craftsmanship, even if one serves a slightly different purpose than the other.
Wives submitting to husbands, or unmarried daughters submitting to fathers, was easy for me to accept once I understood:
(A) there's a Creator
(B) it's up to him how he assigns authority, designs the family structure and society.
(C) he created us both, so how can one be "less than" the other?
(D) Adam was created first, then, when God saw he had no compatible partner, he made Adam a woman, not directly from dust but from Adam's own body, and she's called his help meet.
If anything, that means woman is just as capable if she was created to come help him and out of his own body no less. Whether it's for organization's sake or to illustrate something about God's relation to us, he wants the female to submit to her husband. They're suppose to be one flesh anyway, agreeing; you can't agree unless one submits. And if marriage between man and a woman is a picture of God's relationship with mankind (God as the husband/groom, humans in covenant with him represented as the wife/bride), we submit to the husband, God, not the other way around (instead of God submitting to whatever man wants; no, we submit to him).
We can be assigned different levels of authority and have distinct functions (e.g. when it comes to reproduction), yet still not be in a position of superiority or inferiority. Obviously I'm preaching to the choir, but I don't know if she will actually see it this way even if you explain it to her. May God open her eyes and get her in a place where she genuinely meditates over it. |
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Posted: Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:01 am
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real eyes realize Garland-Green How would you as a woman defend the Bible's position when it comes to women? I am talking to a woman right now who's a militant feminist, and she claims that the Bible teaches women are less worth than men, because man are told they are the head (Ephesians 5:23), and that woman should submit. I am obviously a man, so there is little I can say that will convince the opposite sex who wants to believe that this makes women somehow less worth in the eyes of God. I don't feel position of authority makes the one given authority over less of a person. I feel here that there is an agenda of sorts when it comes to having a view of the Bible as sexist. That there is a political, or perhaps selfish motive behind such a position. What do you think? Sometimes when talking to someone I feel like no matter what argument I use it will not make them change position, because the position they hold somehow serves their purpose. When I was in the world, I had the idea that anything making a clear distinction between the sexes was "sexist", and I went on to label it "inequality", even if it wasn't talking negatively or in terms of inferiority / "less than" language. That's probably what she's operating on. One example that comes to mind: I had this Native American friend who annually celebrated these corn festivals with her tribe; and she was describing how the males would go hunt and the females would do the cooking. I asked her if a girl wanted to go hunt, instead of cook, would they let her? And she said, no. To which I replied, "Wow, that's so sexist". But they aren't thinking in terms of "woman are less than" so they must stay behind and do the cooking; that wasn't their attitude at all. They just assigned certain tasks based on the sexes. Not that the bible is identical at all, but having a positive example of a Creator assigning the males and females different functions, without any notions of inferiority/superiority, I think did help me not have any prejudice against what I did end up coming across in scripture. Maybe she doesn't have any positive associations with the concept? I think society has this misconception that the bible bans women from ever holding the same positions as men though; the bible does have prophets and prophetesses; males dedicated to the temple just like females (Samuel given to the temple; Jephthah's daughter remaining a virgin for life to serve in the temple), husband and wife working in the same profession (Aquila and Priscilla, both tent-makers, Acts 18:1-3; possibly Adam and Eve too if Adam's task was to tend the garden and God created Eve to help him, Genesis 2:15, 18-22). Where I see "women submitting to men" is in a "husband-wife" relationship, or "father-daughter" relationship, but that doesn't mean submitting to all males around you just because they're male and you're not. Everyone, however, is suppose to submit to the authority figures above them regardless of said authority's sex (no male commoner has authority over Queen Esther or Queen Vashti; no male commoner has authority over Miriam, Moses' sister, who was a prophetess and who led the Israelites out of Egypt alongside Moses and Aaron). There's clearly a hierarchy. I'm sure the common person would have to submit to the word of a prophetess if it came from God. This isn't a case of, "oh, you're a woman, you're less than me because of it and I don't have to listen to your prophecy". That's not what we find. Ultimately, God created them both. Women are not "worth less" or "inferior" to Adam unless God, in the bible, admits to having done a crappy job in creating woman. If we have a common creator, then we have the same level of craftsmanship, even if one serves a slightly different purpose than the other. Wives submitting to husbands, or unmarried daughters submitting to fathers, was easy for me to accept once I understood: (A) there's a Creator (B) it's up to him how he assigns authority, designs the family structure and society. (C) he created us both, so how can one be "less than" the other? (D) Adam was created first, then, when God saw he had no compatible partner, he made Adam a woman, not directly from dust but from Adam's own body, and she's called his help meet. If anything, that means woman is just as capable if she was created to come help him and out of his own body no less. Whether it's for organization's sake or to illustrate something about God's relation to us, he wants the female to submit to her husband. They're suppose to be one flesh anyway, agreeing; you can't agree unless one submits. And if marriage between man and a woman is a picture of God's relationship with mankind (God as the husband/groom, humans in covenant with him represented as the wife/bride), we submit to the husband, God, not the other way around (instead of God submitting to whatever man wants; no, we submit to him). We can be assigned different levels of authority and have distinct functions (e.g. when it comes to reproduction), yet still not be in a position of superiority or inferiority. Obviously I'm preaching to the choir, but I don't know if she will actually see it this way even if you explain it to her. May God open her eyes and get her in a place where she genuinely meditates over it.
I doubt she would see it that way. To her it is a matter of who is better, and that everyone is equal in all ways, and it should be no problem for the woman to be the head. "Head means better, because Christ is the head of the church, and because man is designated as head, he is better than woman." and because "woman is the glory of man", the woman has no glory. It is not a sound understanding of scripture.
You are definitely preaching to the choir. I don't feel like I have the right to look at women inferior in any way, reading the scriptures, or that it supports a view where woman is less glorious than man.
This is at its core an authority problem. "God says, but I don't agree. God designs, but I don't agree." If we see how Jesus treated women, I think we are able to deduce how God sees women.
The Gospels portray Jesus as someone that not only spoke and interacted with women, but also treated women with compassion, dignity, and respect.
In the Judean culture of the time, the testimony of women didn't count, yet it was women that testified of Jesus resurrection. The Jewish religious elite believed that women in general should not be taught the Torah, yet Jesus taught Mary, the sister of Martha.
The Gospels portray women as:
testifying of Jesus,
receiving healing and/or deliverance from Jesus,
learning from Jesus,
responding in faith to Jesus,
being used in Jesus metaphors,
financially supporting Jesus ministry,
ministering to Jesus
Men of the time generally did not publicly speak or interact with non-related women, yet Jesus publicly spoke and witnessed to women. Jesus expected a faith response from women just as he did from their male counterparts. In fact, a Gentile woman is one of only two people (both foreigners) recorded that Jesus described as having great faith. |
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