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Ratsah

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 7:34 pm
How the early Church was infiltrated with Pagan ideas/rituals/customs.  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 1:22 am
By Anthony McRoy

The usual argument for the pagan origins of Easter is based on a comment made by the Venerable Bede (673-735), an English monk who wrote the first history of Christianity in England, and who is one of our main sources of knowledge about early Anglo-Saxon culture. In De temporum ratione (On the Reckoning of Time, c. 730), Bede wrote this:

In olden times the English people—for it did not seem fitting that I should speak of other nations' observance of the year and yet be silent about my own nation's—calculated their months according to the course of the Moon. Hence, after the manner of the Greeks and the Romans, [the months] take their name from the Moon, for the Moon is called mona and the month monath. The first month, which the Latins call January, is Giuli; February is called Solmonath; March Hrethmonath; April, Eosturmonath … Eosturmonath has a name which is now translated "Paschal month" and which was once called after a goddess of theirs named Eostre, in whose honour feasts were celebrated in that month. Now they designate that Paschal season by her name, calling the joys of the new rite by the time-honoured name of the old observance.

The first question, therefore, is whether the actual Christian celebration of Easter is derived from a pagan festival. This is easily answered. The Nordic/Germanic peoples (including the Anglo-Saxons) were comparative latecomers to Christianity. Pope Gregory I sent a missionary enterprise led by Augustine of Canterbury to the Anglo-Saxons in 596/7. The forcible conversion of the Saxons in Europe began under Charlemagne in 772. Hence, if "Easter" (i.e. the Christian Passover festival) was celebrated prior to those dates, any supposed pagan Anglo-Saxon festival of "Eostre" can have no significance. And there is, in fact, clear evidence that Christians celebrated an Easter/Passover festival by the second century, if not earlier. It follows that the Christian Easter/Passover celebration, which originated in the Mediterranean basin, was not influenced by any Germanic pagan festival.

What's in a name?

The second question is whether the name of the holiday "Easter" comes from the blurring of the Christian celebration with the worship of a purported pagan fertility goddess named "Eostre" in English and Germanic cultures. There are several problems with the passage in Bede. In his book, The Stations of the Sun, Professor Ronald Hutton (a well-known historian of British paganism and occultism) critiques Bede's sketchy knowledge of other pagan festivals, and argues that the same is true for the statement about Eostre: "It falls into a category of interpretations which Bede admitted to be his own, rather than generally agreed or proven fact."

This leads us to the next problem: there is no evidence outside of Bede for the existence of this Anglo-Saxon goddess. There is no equivalent goddess in the Norse Eddas or in ancient Germanic paganism from continental Europe. Hutton suggests, therefore, that "the Anglo-Saxon Estor-monath simply meant 'the month of opening' or 'the month of beginnings,'" and concludes that there is no evidence for a pre-Christian festival in the British Isles in March or April.

There is another objection to the claim that Eosturmonath has anything to do with a pagan goddess. Whereas Anglo-Saxon days were usually named after gods, such as Wednesday ("Woden's day"), the names of their months were either calendrical, such as Giuli, meaning "wheel," referring to the turn of the year; metereological-environmental, such as Solmónath (roughly February), meaning "Mud-Month"; or referred to actions taken in that period, such as Blótmónath (roughly November), meaning "Blood Month," when animals were slaughtered. No other month was dedicated to a deity, with the exception (according to Bede) of Hrethmonath (roughly March), which he claims was named after the goddess Hrethe. But like Eostre, there is no other evidence for Hrethe, nor any equivalent in Germanic/Norse mythology.

Another problem with Bede's explanation concerns the Saxons in continental Europe. Einhard (c. 775-840), the courtier and biographer of Charlemagne, tells us that among Charlemagne's reforms was the renaming of the months. April was renamed Ostarmanoth. Charlemagne spoke a Germanic dialect, as did the Anglo-Saxons in Britain, although their vernacular was distinct. But why would Charlemagne change the old Roman title for the spring month to Ostarmanoth? Charlemagne was the scourge of Germanic paganism. He attacked the pagan Saxons and felled their great pillar Irminsul (after their god Irmin) in 772. He forcibly converted them to Christianity and savagely repressed them when they revolted because of this. It seems very unlikely, therefore, that Charlemagne would name a month after a Germanic goddess.

Spring holiday

So why, then, do English-speaking Christians call their holiday "Easter"?

One theory for the origin of the name is that the Latin phrase in albis ("in white"), which Christians used in reference to Easter week, found its way into Old High German as eostarum, or "dawn." There is some evidence of early Germanic borrowing of Latin despite that fact that the Germanic peoples lived outside the Roman Empire—though the Angles, Saxons, and Jutes were far very removed from it. This theory presumes that the word only became current after the introduction of either Roman influence or the Christian faith, which is uncertain. But if accurate, it would demonstrate that the festival is not named after a pagan goddess.

Alternatively, as Hutton suggests, Eosturmonath simply meant "the month of opening," which is comparable to the meaning of "April" in Latin. The names of both the Saxon and Latin months (which are calendrically similar) were related to spring, the season when the buds open.

So Christians in ancient Anglo-Saxon and Germanic areas called their Passover holiday what they did—doubtless colloquially at first—simply because it occurred around the time of Eosturmonath/Ostarmanoth. A contemporary analogy can be found in the way Americans sometimes refer to the December period as "the holidays" in connection with Christmas and Hanukkah, or the way people sometimes speak about something happening "around Christmas," usually referring to the time at the turn of the year. The Christian title "Easter," then, essentially reflects its general date in the calendar, rather than the Paschal festival having been re-named in honor of a supposed pagan deity.

Of course, the Christian commemoration of the Paschal festival rests not on the title of the celebration but on its content—namely, the remembrance of Christ's death and resurrection. It is Christ's conquest of sin, death, and Satan that gives us the right to wish everyone "Happy Easter!"

Anthony McRoy is a Fellow of the British Society for Middle East Studies and lecturer in Islamic studies at Wales Evangelical School of Theology, U.K.

More;
Is the Name “Easter” of Pagan Origin?

Simply because a word sounds similar to a pagan goddess doesn't mean that the name is based on that goddess. I think it is kind of disappointing when people do this, especially fellow Christians, because it reflects badly on us all, and it is the kind of stuff that give those who are enemies of the cross ammunition and is causing fractions and splintering where there really is no need for it. How does it make us appear?

A couple of excerpts from the link above:

William Tyndale translated the Bible into English from the Greek and Hebrew. His New Testament (1525) uses the word ester to refer to the Passover. In fact, we owe our English word Passover to Tyndale. When translating the Old Testament (1530), he coined the term to describe how the Lord would “pass over” the houses marked with the blood of the lamb (Exodus 12). The usage of ester was retained in the 1534 revision of the New Testament, and it was not until later that it was known as Easter, adding the a. Luther and Tyndale were the first to use a translation of pascha rather than a transliteration (to write words or letters in the characters of another alphabet).

By this method, one could take virtually anything and do the same—even the “golden arches” at McDonald’s! The Encyclopedia Americana (article: “Arch") says the use of arches was known in Babylon as early as 2020 B.C. Since Babylon was called “the golden city” (Isa. 14:4), can there be any doubt about the origin of the golden arches? As silly as this is, this is the type of proof that has been offered over and over about pagan origins.  

Garland-Green

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:16 am
Easter is passover. In norway we call it påske we celebrate the same time Americans celebrates Easter. Påske comes from the hebrew word Pesach. All of these words refer to the Jewish feast of Passover, which was the setting for the Easter events recounted in the Christian Gospels. The Passover was symbolism of things to come, and the same place on the calender as Easter does. When feasts etc that where a symbol of things to come in the Old Testament had been fulfilled, they took on a deeper meaning. It was revealed to us what they reflected.

Passover symbolism
Much of the symbolism of Jesus' last Passover week is lost to us because we are unaware of the customs of the time. For example, Jesus came into the city of Jerusalem five days before the lamb was killed in the temple as the Passover sacrifice for the sins of the people of Israel. Five days before the lamb was to be sacrificed, it was chosen. Therefore, Jesus entered Jerusalem on lamb selection day as the lamb of God. The people did not understand the significance of this, since they greeted Him with palm branches and hailed Him as King, shouting "Hosanna,"which means "save us." However, they were not looking for a spiritual Savior, but a political savior. Palm branches were a symbol of freedom and defiance, since Simon Maccabeus had entered Jerusalem with that symbolism. Jesus' reaction was to weep, since He realized that they did not understand the Messiah's purpose in coming.

Passover sacrifice
The day Jesus was crucified was the day of the Passover celebration and the day that the Passover lamb was to be sacrificed. For the previous 1,200 years, the priest would blow the shophar (ram's horn) at 3:00 p.m. - the moment the lamb was sacrificed, and all the people would pause to contemplate the sacrifice for sins on behalf of the people of Israel. At 3:00, when Jesus was being crucified, He said, "It is finished" - at the moment that the Passover lamb was sacrificed and the shophar was blown from the Temple. The sacrifice of the lamb of God was fulfilled at the hour that the symbolic animal sacrifice usually took place. At the same time, the veil of the Temple (a three-inch thick, several story high cloth that demarked the Holy of Holies) tore from top to bottom - representing a removal of the separation between God and man.

Burial
The festival of unleavened bread began Friday evening (at sunset). As part of the festival, the Jews would take some of the grain - the "first fruits" of their harvest - to the Temple to offer as a sacrifice. In so doing, they were offering God all they had and trusting Him to proved the rest of the harvest. It was at this point that Jesus was buried - planted in the ground - as He said right before His death. Paul refers to Jesus as the first fruits of those raised from the dead in 1 Corinthians. As such, Jesus represents the fulfillment of God's promise to provide the rest of the harvest - resurrection of those who follow the Messiah.

Resurrection
Christian symbolism in the Passover occurs early in the Seder (the Passover dinner). Three matzahs are put together (representing the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit). The middle matzah is broken, wrapped in a white cloth, and hidden, representing the death and burial of Jesus. The matzah itself is designed to represent Jesus, since it is striped and pierced, which was prophesized by Isaiah, David, and Zechariah. Following the Seder meal, the "buried" matzah is "resurrected," which was foretold in the prophecies of David.

Christian communion
It was during a Passover seder that Jesus proclaimed that the meal represented Himself and that He was instituting the New Covenant, which was foretold by Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and Isaiah.The celebration of this covenant has become the ordinance of communion in the Christian Church. At the end of the meal, Jesus took the unleavened bread, broke it, and said that it represented His body. Then He took the cup of wine, which would have been the third cup of the Seder - the cup of redemption. He said that it was the new covenant in His blood "poured out for you."It is through the sacrificial death and resurrection of Jesus Christ that we are declared clean before God, allowing those of us who choose to accept the pardon, to commune with Him - both now and forevermore through the eternal life He offers.  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 2:44 am
Easter this year: Sunday, April 20

Passover 2014 begins in the evening of
Monday, April 14

and ends in the evening of
Tuesday, April 22

As you can see they overlap, and they frequently do.

From myjewishlearning;

Quote:
If Passover is largely about Egypt, Easter is largely about Passover. Its historical setting is Jerusalem at Passover, the Last Supper could well have been an embryonic seder, and Jesus is fated to become the paschal lamb. Indeed, the new Catechism of the Catholic Church calls Easter "The Christian Passover" (no. 1170) and speaks of the "Paschal mystery of Christ's cross" (no. 57).


The Catholic church is not all bad. It has some good stuff in it too, if Jesus was to rebuke it it would not just get words of rebuke (see the letters to the seven churches in Revelation), but a few words of commendation as well, and we do well to consider what is good, and what is not, and don't throw out both what is good, and what is bad, but throw out what is bad, and cherish and keep what is good.

Hebrews 5:14
But solid food is for the mature, for those who have their powers of discernment trained by constant practice to distinguish good from evil.  

Garland-Green

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Scarlet_Teardrops

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 9:58 am

The problem with accusing Christians of celebrating a pagan holiday when they celebrate Easter and Christmas is this: they don't. Christian don't celebrate pagan holidays. They celebrate Christian holidays. Whatever the origin may have been, Christians all over the world, on Easter, do not worship a pagan goddess. They celebrate the Resurrection of the Almighty God, Jesus Christ. They worship the LORD. As for Christmas--again, Christians do not celebrate pagan things but, rather, the birth of Jesus Christ. And the birth of Jesus Christ is well worth a holiday, considering the incarnation of Christ was a monumental event, and the fact that He was born of a virgin is quite miraculous.

Praise the LORD for all of His works and glories.
 
PostPosted: Sun Feb 16, 2014 8:40 pm
Take it or leave it.  

Ratsah

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:24 am
I don't think that is a wholesome attitude to have. It is in the interest of truth that when topics are posted that we should examine them to see if the content holds water. Taking something as it is, without examination is not good for you. Don't just take things, or leave them - examine them for the sake of the truth, and for your own sake. I have been trying to find something about the author R.F Becker or Ralph F. Becker. The creator of the pamphlet, that Jim Brown read from, and I can't find anything about him except that he was active as a writer in the 80's-90's, and the titles of his books. Not on Wikipedia either. Could it be a pseudonym? If so why? Where are the quotations in order for us to check ourselves whether what he is reading is factual? We are not told how R.F Becker came to these conclusions, and what sources he is drawing from, but are simply asked to trust it as truth. We are told he is an expert, but what are his credentials? Does he hold a doctorate in etymology or ancient religions? I am not saying this to be difficult, or to rain on someones parade, but out of concern.  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:29 pm
Pastor Joseph Abrahamson serves Clearwater Lutheran Parish (E.L.S.): a parish of four Confessional Lutheran congregations in very rural Northwestern, Minnesota. He and his wife, Mary, have 10 children. Pastor Abrahamson is a graduate of Bethany Lutheran Theological Seminary, and of the University of Wisconsin-Madison's Department of Hebrew and Semitic Studies. He has served on the Faculty/Staff at Bethany Lutheran College teaching Religion, Linguistics, Archaeology, and Self-Defense; and was on Staff at the University of Wisconsin as an Information Processing Consultant (Computer Geek) while doing graduate work in Semitics. Pastor Abrahamson has served Clearwater Lutheran Parish (ELS) for since Dec. 2001.

Redeeming Holy Days from Pagan Lies — Ash Wednesday and Lent
February 5th, 2013 by Pastor Joseph Abrahamson

So, what are the supposed pagan origins of Ash Wednesday and Lent?

There are two aspects of Ash Wednesday and Lent that need to be emphasized. First is the historical nature of the forty days of Lent; the second is the use of ash on Ash Wednesday.

To put it plainly: the claim that Ash Wednesday and Lent are based on pagan origins is a relatively new fiction that comes out of several different sources.

First is the irresponsible work of Alexander Hislop and those who followed him; both those who claim to be Christian and those who oppose Christianity.

Second is the neo-pagan movement today that falsely imagines that paganism is the most ancient of religions and rejects the Bible totally. But, in fact, Lent and Ash Wednesday have no origins in paganism.

You will find all kinds of websites on the Internet that claim that Ash Wednesday and Lent are not Biblical because Christ never commanded them.

In part this is true. And Satan likes to use truth to give credibility to his lies.

Christ didn’t command any such celebration. Christ did not command His followers to celebrate Ash Wednesday. Nor did he command that we worship on Sunday. Nor did He command that we sing “Rock of Ages.” Nor did he command that we use chairs or pews when we gather.

The false logic is this: If Christ didn’t specifically command us to do something, then it is a sin to do it. So, think about how little sense that logic makes. Take this example: Christ did not command that I have my children wash dishes. Is it therefore a sin to have them do so? No.

What Christ did command and give to His Church was that the Word of God be preached for the remission of sins; that is, that the Law and the Gospel be taught, so people would be brought to repentance; and that faith in Christ would be given to them. He commanded that sins be forgiven in His name through the absolution to penitent sinners and withheld from the impenitent as long as they do not repent. He commanded that all nations, young and old, regardless of race be baptized for the forgiveness of their sins. He commanded that we celebrate the feast of His Holy Supper where He gives us His Body and Blood together with the bread and wine in the Sacrament for the forgiveness of our sins. He gave us the promise that the Father hears our prayers in Christ’s name because He has made us His brothers and sisters through the forgiveness of sins—won for us on the cross and distributed to us through Word and Sacrament. The prayer and celebration of these gifts can be held any day.

The ancient Church recognized that it was free from legalistic obligations, both from the Old Testament Law, and from new invented laws of men. St. Paul wrote about this in Colossians 2. They also knew from Scripture that they were not to use this liberty as an excuse for sin. (Romans 6) They knew that they were not to let their consciences be bound by new human regulations as if their salvation depended upon them. (Galatians 1-2) Whatever was beneficial for the teaching of God’s word and for the practice of the Christian life-consisting of repentance and forgiveness in the Means of Grace-was encouraged.

And the ancient Church chose to keep a fast during the forty days before Passover/Easter to focus on repentance and the gift of the Resurrection at Easter. St. Athanasius, who led at the Council of Nicea to defeat Arianism—a denial of Christ being truly God and man in one person—was a bishop in Alexandria, Egypt. He wrote annual Festival letters to the Church as they prepared to celebrate Easter. In the year 331 he wrote in order to encourage his congregations in Egypt to keep the Lenten fast for 40 days. Athanasius directs the readers to many Scriptural examples and exhortations to moderation, self-control, and fasting for repentance, Athanasius gives several Bible examples of the 40 day fast, especially of Christ’s 40 day fast, after which Athanasius wrote:

“The beginning of the fast of forty days is on the fifth of the month Phamenoth (we call Ash Wednesday); and when, as I have said, we have first been purified and prepared by those days, we begin the holy week of the great Easter on the tenth of the month Pharmuthi (Palm Sunday), in which, my beloved brethren, we should use more prolonged prayers, and fastings, and watchings, that we may be enabled to anoint our lintels with precious blood, and to escape the destroyer (Exod. xii. 7, 23.). Let us rest then, on the fifteenth of the month Pharmuthi (Easter Sunday Eve), for on the evening of that Saturday we hear the angels’ message, ‘Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is risen (Luke xxiv. 5).’ Immediately afterwards that great Sunday receives us, I mean on the sixteenth of the same month Pharmuthi (Easter Sunday morning), on which our Lord having risen, gave us peace towards our neighbours.

We learn from this that even at the time the Nicene Creed was written, at the time Constantine the Great ruled, the Western and Eastern Churches practiced a voluntary fast for 40 days before Easter.

That this was practiced in Rome and elsewhere is seen in St. Athanasius’ letter from the year 340 A.D. when he returns from a meeting of pastors/bishops from all around the world, and he encourages his own congregations to continue in the same practice of the 40 day Lenten fast as does “the rest of the whole world.”

In order to count the 40 days of Lent the Sundays of that season are not counted as part of the fast. Rather the Sundays are each a minor feast day. If you add the six feast Sundays to the 40 fast days you get 46 days. That means that the first day of the Fast of Lent is a Wednesday, just as Athanasius explained.

The 40 day fast does not come from the so-called “weeping of Tammuz” as claimed by the radical anti-Roman Catholic writer Alexander Hislop in his book The Two Babylons. Hislop made up myths and connections out of thin air because of his hatred for Roman Catholicism. Hislop’s views were adopted whole cloth by the Jehovah’s Witnesses, who continued to republish Hislop’s book until 1987. Hislop’s book was cited in 22 different issues of the Jehovah’s Witnesses periodical The Watchtower from 1950 to 1978, and several times in the 1980s. From 1989 the Jehovah’s Witnesses stopped referring to Hilsop’s book, but they have kept Hislop’s teaching and use other sources.

The month of Tammuz in Old Testament times is roughly equivalent to our July. To the best evidence, that was when the Babylonian pagans, and the fallen Israelites mentioned in Ezekiel 8:14 would “weep for Tammuz”. Also, this weeping took place on the second day of that month, right after the new moon. Not for forty days.

Two basic facts: 1) The weeping for Tammuz was not a 40 day thing. That is Hislop’s fiction. 2) The month of Tammuz is 4 months after Easter. They aren’t even in the same time of year. ( From the The Electronic Text Corpus of Sumerian Literature: Inana and Bilulu: an ulila to Inana: c.1.4.4 English Translation)

Many websites claim that the use of ashes on Ash Wednesday comes from pagan sources.

The ironic thing is that these websites cannot get their own stories straight. Some people assert that the ashes and Lent come from Nordic Odin worship, others that they come from pagan Roman cults, others that they come from ancient Hindu religions—and some try to maintain irrational combinations of the above very different imagined sources.

But ashes for Ash Wednesday do not come from any of these sources. The practice of believers using ashes to represent sorrow and repentance is well testified in the Bible. In the ancient world it was the natural formal response of those who are sorry for their sins:

For example:

Tamar’s repentance: 2 Samuel 13:19 Then Tamar put ashes on her head, and tore her robe of many colors that was on her, and laid her hand on her head and went away crying bitterly.
Mordecay’s repentance and the repentance of the Jews in exile; Esther 4:1,3 When Mordecai learned all that had happened, he tore his clothes and put on sackcloth and ashes, and went out into the midst of the city. He cried out with a loud and bitter cry. And in every province where the king’s command and decree arrived, there was great mourning among the Jews, with fasting, weeping, and wailing; and many lay in sackcloth and ashes.
Job’s repentance: Job 2:8 And he took for himself a potsherd with which to scrape himself while he sat in the midst of the ashes.
See also Isaiah 58:5; Jeremiah 6:26; Daniel 9:3; Jonah 3:6; and Christ’s harsh words to the cities of Chorazin and Bethsaida in Luke 10:13.
But didn’t Jesus tell us not to put on a show while fasting? Yes, that’s in Matthew chapter 6:

“Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.”

He said the same of prayer and of giving charitable gifts. His point is that these things should not be done as a show of righteousness. He did not prohibit praying in public or as a group in worship. He did not prohibit giving something publicly or to a group. And he did not prohibit using outward symbols of repentance like ashes.

What Christ condemned in these passages is thinking that we can show others how good, how sincere, how devout, and what kind of a Christian we are with these outward symbols. The ash on the forehead is a confession that the person is worth only ashes, has no righteousness, is not better than another, and needs God’s grace if there is to be any hope for him or her.

Can the symbol be abused? Yes, of course it can. But that does not make it a bad symbol. Every gift of God can be abused by sinful people. We should expect that because of sin. So we should recognize that the ways that Christians choose in their freedom to celebrate God’s gifts can also be misused.

So we see, first of all, that neither forty day fast of Lent nor the ashes of Ash Wednesday have anything to do with pagan origins. The use of ashes in the Christian faith as a sign of repentance is as old as Job, and probably older. It certainly is the outward act chosen by believers through out thousands of years, from the earliest times as outward sign to confess unworthiness and sin.

No human can require a Christian to use the fast of Lent as a saving work. A congregation can recommend the practice as a serious self-examination of one’s own sin and sinful appetites; of one’s own weaknesses. No human can require Christians to use ash on Ash Wednesday or any other day as a way of proving their faith.

And neither can any human forbid the use of the Lenten fast or the use of ashes either. Both are legalism, a replacing of the Gospel for a new law. The whole point of Ash Wednesday and the Lenten Fast is to look on ourselves as worthless and utterly needy: to look only upon Christ, to celebrate His feast in the Lord’s Supper, preach His passion and death upon the cross, and proclaim the Resurrection of Christ as the final seal upon our salvation.

We should reject any fictionalizing about pagan origins of Lent or Ash Wednesday with both the truth of Scripture and real history.

Source:
http://steadfastlutherans.org/?p=26696  

Garland-Green

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:14 pm
There is no historical evidence of hot cross buns having been used in pagan worship, it is speculation, and to state it as a fact is questionable and goes for me to show that he will use any argument to further his point that Easter is evil, and all the evidence point to it.

Wikipedia article on Hot Cross Buns;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_cross_bun

Show the connection between the druids, and the tradition of Easter eggs.
Show where a Christian or pagan druid (The druids as I understand it lived during the iron age - that's 1200 - 550 B.C in the Ancient near east, or ca 1200 B.C - 1 B.C in Europe) said; "Let us corrupt the Christians traditions with out own! Let them paint eggs for our gods."

Or the Christian(s) who said: "You know what, I really like paganism and pagan traditions. Druidism especially. I will include this in our feast to honor the serpent in the Garden."

The tradition of painting eggs originates with the early Christians of Mesopotamia. They stained eggs red in memory of the blood of Christ, shed at his crucifixion. (Donahoe's Magazine)

Is it inherently bad to paint eggs? What if I painted an egg, and it was not Easter? Let us say it was on February the third. I did so because I thought the idea of painting an eggs was cool. Am I committing a pagan rite, to honor a pagan god?

There is also no evidence that Ishtar is pronounced Easter. In modern English we pronounce it the way it looks. A case could be made for pronouncing it Eesh-tar, but I have yet to come across a credible source that gives the original pronunciation as Easter. Eggs have as far as I have been able to tell nothing to do with Ishtar at all. Her symbols were the lion, the gate and the eight-pointed star. Tried typing in 'Ishtar eggs' and another variant 'Ishtar moon', in Wikipedia (I am not saying Wikipedia is all-knowing, but they have extensive articles on archaeology, and articles on Ishtar). Here's what I found: The page "Ishtar eggs" does not exist. The top result was beekeeping. The governor of Suhu and the land of Mar, praying to Adad and Ishtar. There was also no pages on 'Ishtar moon'.

I find it kind of funny that Richard Dawkins use some of these arguments online against Christianity.

He shared this picture with his supporters on Richard Dawkins’ Foundation for Reason and Science:
Ishtar
Facebook album

Facebook comment:
Guess what language Constantine, the Roman Emperor, spoke? Not English, that’s for sure! In fact, when he was alive, English didn’t even exist yet. He would have spoken Latin, so would likely have referred to Easter as Pascha.  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:42 pm
With this much twisting, and deception to show us the truth,
how can we be sure that this is the truth? How can I be sure that
the message of this teacher is true, when much of the historical evidences
and lines and connections he draws are based on conjecture, but presented as facts? The fact that the word Easter, in our Bibles is fairly recent in use, and not a part of the Greek documents show as far as I see that it is not some giant ancient conspiracy to corrupt Christianity, but the Bible translators not finding a satisfactory word for the Greek word Πάσχα - Páscha. When Tyndale applied his talents to the translation of the New Testament from Greek into English, he was not satisfied with the use of a completely foreign word. Translators before that such as Wycliffe just gave the Latin word an English form — pask or paske. (BibleGateway: Wycliffe Bible - Pask )  

Garland-Green

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real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman

PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:21 pm
As far as Easter goes, name and all, and the way Jim Brown goes about proving things, I would have to side with Garland on this one. For the record, this whole "rabbits laying eggs" myth, should not be something we associate with simply because it contradicts that a kind comes "after its own kind"; rabbits shouldn't be laying eggs that hatch chickens, lol. And it's a lie point blank: rabbits don't lay eggs anyway. We shouldn't support deviations from the truth, no matter how feel-good of a custom it is.

To address what Scarlet said:

Scarlet_Teardrops

The problem with accusing Christians of celebrating a pagan holiday when they celebrate Easter and Christmas is this: they don't. Christian don't celebrate pagan holidays. They celebrate Christian holidays. Whatever the origin may have been, Christians all over the world, on Easter, do not worship a pagan goddess. They celebrate the Resurrection of the Almighty God, Jesus Christ. They worship the LORD. As for Christmas--again, Christians do not celebrate pagan things but, rather, the birth of Jesus Christ. And the birth of Jesus Christ is well worth a holiday, considering the incarnation of Christ was a monumental event, and the fact that He was born of a virgin is quite miraculous.

Praise the LORD for all of His works and glories.


More accurately, the accusation is this: that Christians incorporate pagan symbolism and customs into their worship of YHWH/Jesus. Thus, hurting our testimony that he is unique. At least that was my issue with Christianity—that it's not unique—and if it's just a copy of paganism, then why bother giving it, and its Christians, any validity to what they are saying.

Is YHWH/Jesus holy/set-apart? not common/profane? not like the other entities which the pagans worshiped? then why do our traditions—what Christian holidays have evolved into—not fully reflect this biblical holiness / set-apartness, the way it was commanded by God?

If rabbits and easter eggs aren't in the bible, but pagans/polytheists are doing it in the worship of their demons/idols/false gods/nonexistent gods/personification of nature, then the natural conclusion is that: Christians who incorporate the same custom into their worship of Jesus are copying the pagans; so, they must have hijacked the pagan religions, white washed said traditions with Christian titles in the name of conquest, and at the end of the day, they're worshiping the same gods. Christians just don't know any better. They've forgotten. They're just ignorant. They don't know their history.

And for a while, that was what I thought. What's sad is that I've even come across ex-catholics who saw this paganism in their church traditions and decided to jump ship to hellenistic polytheism (instead of biblical Christianity) as a result. It didn't help that when I would ask Catholic/Christian family members WHY a particular food or decoration was a part of their celebration, they couldn't give me any legit biblical answer (where in the bible does it say that this symbolizes that? oh it doesn't); that was all I needed to dismiss their religion. Unfortunately, I lumped all of Christianity along with it, especially after watching that one Zeitgeist documentary claiming "they're all sun gods, even Jesus, yay".

Anyone sincerely examining the tradition can see how certain aspects of the observance are polluting our testimony / witness to the world of who YHWH is and his incarnation into the world. Essentially, " (1) your own bible doesn't command this, nor (2) support this, and (3) in fact it may be talking against this as being true, AND (4) it came from another culture that doesn't worship your God; so, why should I believe anything that comes out of your mouth. You're all liars".

And I would've continued thinking Christianity was a lie, until I read the bible first hand, came across commandments saying his followers were not to worship YHWH the same way the pagans worshiped their gods. And that Jesus couldn't possibly be a sun god because YHWH / Jesus himself created the sun and considered it idolatry if anyone worshiped the sun, moon and stars. It was only then that I started to consider, "maybe biblical Christianity isn't pagan, even if most Christians out there really are pagan in contradiction to what their bible says—even if they claim to be worshiping Jesus/the God of the Bible". That's the opinion I was forming in the back of my mind just by virtue of what Christians celebrated and how they celebrated, what decorations/customs they kept associating with year after year.

Again, if it wasn't for commands such as:

Quote:
Deuteronomy 12:4 (NIV)

4 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way.


Quote:
Deuteronomy 12:29-32 (NIV)

29 The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.[a]

Footnotes:

a Deuteronomy 12:32 In Hebrew texts this verse (12:32) is numbered 13:1.


... then I would not have given Christianity a second chance. And around that time is when I started to question what "holy" and "profane" meant, because I was seeing it a lot throughout Exodus and Leviticus (holy more often than profane). When I eventually got to verses like Ezekiel 22:26, that really made me think, "okay so, all of his commands were suppose to make him stand out against the pagan gods; and if people are holy / set-apart to him, everything about their life is suppose to reflect 100% affiliation to YHWH only".

Quote:
Ezekiel 22:26 (NIV)

Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.


That said, there's no saving "Christmas" for me. Easter and Passover + Feast of Unleavened Bread coincide, so I have no issues with a date for that one. But not for Christmas. Scriptures clearly reflect something different: that he didn't incarnate in winter. It's up to the individual if they're willing to continue associating his incarnation into the world with winter despite scripture saying something different. Not to mention how there are other theories, which I would say are more biblical, that have him incarnating on the Feast of Tabernacles, a feast I can with a clear conscience believe has zero pagan association because YHWH commanded it himself. That, and this whole sun-god, Saturn and Odin worship going around in those winter months, the holly, the yule log, all of it, I want no association with it. I will not give pagans a reason to believe I'm celebrating the birth of their gods or their god period (because Saturn and Odin weren't celebrating their birthday, unlike Mithra & co.).

Maybe now you understand the real issue. I don't know who or what you've been listening to, but the issue isn't that Christians are knowingly worshiping other gods. It's that they're profaning the one they claim to believe in. They're making him sound common, like if he were just another pagan copy, despite changing details to try to save a tradition that never belonged to them in the first place.  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:51 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops

The problem with accusing Christians of celebrating a pagan holiday when they celebrate Easter and Christmas is this: they don't. Christian don't celebrate pagan holidays. They celebrate Christian holidays. Whatever the origin may have been, Christians all over the world, on Easter, do not worship a pagan goddess. They celebrate the Resurrection of the Almighty God, Jesus Christ. They worship the LORD. As for Christmas--again, Christians do not celebrate pagan things but, rather, the birth of Jesus Christ. And the birth of Jesus Christ is well worth a holiday, considering the incarnation of Christ was a monumental event, and the fact that He was born of a virgin is quite miraculous.

Praise the LORD for all of His works and glories.

Most of the thread is tldr for my attention span
But this i can read and agree with.
Doesn't matter if the origin was Christian, when Christians celebrate we celebrate as Christians and that itself makes it a Christian holiday.
Reminds me of a joke I read once...ahah here it is

In Florida, an atheist became incensed over the preparation for Easter and Passover holidays and decided to contact his lawyer about the discrimination inflicted on atheists by the constant celebrations afforded to Christians and Jews with all their holidays while the atheists had no holiday to celebrate.

The case was brought before a wise judge who after listening to the long, passionate presentation of his lawyer, promptly banged his gavel and declared, "Case dismissed!"

The lawyer immediately stood and objected to the ruling and said, "Your honor, how can you possibly dismiss this case? Surely the Christians have Christmas, Easter and many other observances. And the Jews -- why in addition to Passover they have Yom Kippur and Hanukkah... and yet my client and all other atheists have no such holiday!"

The judge leaned forward in his chair and simply said "Obviously your client is too confused to know about or to celebrate the atheists' holiday!"

The lawyer pompously said "We are aware of no such holiday for atheists, just when might that be, your honor?"

The judge said "Well it comes every year on exactly the same date-- April 1st!"

"The fool says in his heart, 'There is no God.'"
Psalm 14:1, Psalm 53:1
 

Iam WhoIAm

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:39 am
real eyes realize
As far as Easter goes, name and all, and the way Jim Brown goes about proving things, I would have to side with Garland on this one. For the record, this whole "rabbits laying eggs" myth, should not be something we associate with simply because it contradicts that a kind comes "after its own kind"; rabbits shouldn't be laying eggs that hatch chickens, lol. And it's a lie point blank: rabbits don't lay eggs anyway. We shouldn't support deviations from the truth, no matter how feel-good of a custom it is.

To address what Scarlet said:

Scarlet_Teardrops

The problem with accusing Christians of celebrating a pagan holiday when they celebrate Easter and Christmas is this: they don't. Christian don't celebrate pagan holidays. They celebrate Christian holidays. Whatever the origin may have been, Christians all over the world, on Easter, do not worship a pagan goddess. They celebrate the Resurrection of the Almighty God, Jesus Christ. They worship the LORD. As for Christmas--again, Christians do not celebrate pagan things but, rather, the birth of Jesus Christ. And the birth of Jesus Christ is well worth a holiday, considering the incarnation of Christ was a monumental event, and the fact that He was born of a virgin is quite miraculous.

Praise the LORD for all of His works and glories.


More accurately, the accusation is this: that Christians incorporate pagan symbolism and customs into their worship of YHWH/Jesus. Thus, hurting our testimony that he is unique. At least that was my issue with Christianity—that it's not unique—and if it's just a copy of paganism, then why bother giving it, and its Christians, any validity to what they are saying.

Is YHWH/Jesus holy/set-apart? not common/profane? not like the other entities which the pagans worshiped? then why do our traditions—what Christian holidays have evolved into—not fully reflect this biblical holiness / set-apartness, the way it was commanded by God?

If rabbits and easter eggs aren't in the bible, but pagans/polytheists are doing it in the worship of their demons/idols/false gods/nonexistent gods/personification of nature, then the natural conclusion is that: Christians who incorporate the same custom into their worship of Jesus are copying the pagans; so, they must have hijacked the pagan religions, white washed said traditions with Christian titles in the name of conquest, and at the end of the day, they're worshiping the same gods. Christians just don't know any better. They've forgotten. They're just ignorant. They don't know their history.

And for a while, that was what I thought. What's sad is that I've even come across ex-catholics who saw this paganism in their church traditions and decided to jump ship to hellenistic polytheism (instead of biblical Christianity) as a result. It didn't help that when I would ask Catholic/Christian family members WHY a particular food or decoration was a part of their celebration, they couldn't give me any legit biblical answer (where in the bible does it say that this symbolizes that? oh it doesn't); that was all I needed to dismiss their religion. Unfortunately, I lumped all of Christianity along with it, especially after watching that one Zeitgeist documentary claiming "they're all sun gods, even Jesus, yay".

Anyone sincerely examining the tradition can see how certain aspects of the observance are polluting our testimony / witness to the world of who YHWH is and his incarnation into the world. Essentially, " (1) your own bible doesn't command this, nor (2) support this, and (3) in fact it may be talking against this as being true, AND (4) it came from another culture that doesn't worship your God; so, why should I believe anything that comes out of your mouth. You're all liars".

And I would've continued thinking Christianity was a lie, until I read the bible first hand, came across commandments saying his followers were not to worship YHWH the same way the pagans worshiped their gods. And that Jesus couldn't possibly be a sun god because YHWH / Jesus himself created the sun and considered it idolatry if anyone worshiped the sun, moon and stars. It was only then that I started to consider, "maybe biblical Christianity isn't pagan, even if most Christians out there really are pagan in contradiction to what their bible says—even if they claim to be worshiping Jesus/the God of the Bible". That's the opinion I was forming in the back of my mind just by virtue of what Christians celebrated and how they celebrated, what decorations/customs they kept associating with year after year.

Again, if it wasn't for commands such as:

Quote:
Deuteronomy 12:4 (NIV)

4 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way.


Quote:
Deuteronomy 12:29-32 (NIV)

29 The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.[a]

Footnotes:

a Deuteronomy 12:32 In Hebrew texts this verse (12:32) is numbered 13:1.


... then I would not have given Christianity a second chance. And around that time is when I started to question what "holy" and "profane" meant, because I was seeing it a lot throughout Exodus and Leviticus (holy more often than profane). When I eventually got to verses like Ezekiel 22:26, that really made me think, "okay so, all of his commands were suppose to make him stand out against the pagan gods; and if people are holy / set-apart to him, everything about their life is suppose to reflect 100% affiliation to YHWH only".

Quote:
Ezekiel 22:26 (NIV)

Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.


That said, there's no saving "Christmas" for me. Easter and Passover + Feast of Unleavened Bread coincide, so I have no issues with a date for that one. But not for Christmas. Scriptures clearly reflect something different: that he didn't incarnate in winter. It's up to the individual if they're willing to continue associating his incarnation into the world with winter despite scripture saying something different. Not to mention how there are other theories, which I would say are more biblical, that have him incarnating on the Feast of Tabernacles, a feast I can with a clear conscience believe has zero pagan association because YHWH commanded it himself. That, and this whole sun-god, Saturn and Odin worship going around in those winter months, the holly, the yule log, all of it, I want no association with it. I will not give pagans a reason to believe I'm celebrating the birth of their gods or their god period (because Saturn and Odin weren't celebrating their birthday, unlike Mithra & co.).

Maybe now you understand the real issue. I don't know who or what you've been listening to, but the issue isn't that Christians are knowingly worshiping other gods. It's that they're profaning the one they claim to believe in. They're making him sound common, like if he were just another pagan copy, despite changing details to try to save a tradition that never belonged to them in the first place.

This I can agree with, because it is not presented in a way that constructs arguments based on hearsay. These are valid arguments against painting Easter eggs, or Easter egg hunts. If it is seen on the outside as something that accompanies Christianity (a religious practice) but borrowed from other religions (however baseless it may be), then it is easy for them to conclude with Christianity being just another religion with borrowed concepts. It will be a stumbling block to them, and so we should avoid it. Christianity should not be just another religion, because Christ is not just another deity in the marketplace of deities to pick from. He is in fact the only deity.  
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:41 am
real eyes realize
As far as Easter goes, name and all, and the way Jim Brown goes about proving things, I would have to side with Garland on this one. For the record, this whole "rabbits laying eggs" myth, should not be something we associate with simply because it contradicts that a kind comes "after its own kind"; rabbits shouldn't be laying eggs that hatch chickens, lol. And it's a lie point blank: rabbits don't lay eggs anyway. We shouldn't support deviations from the truth, no matter how feel-good of a custom it is.

To address what Scarlet said:

Scarlet_Teardrops

The problem with accusing Christians of celebrating a pagan holiday when they celebrate Easter and Christmas is this: they don't. Christian don't celebrate pagan holidays. They celebrate Christian holidays. Whatever the origin may have been, Christians all over the world, on Easter, do not worship a pagan goddess. They celebrate the Resurrection of the Almighty God, Jesus Christ. They worship the LORD. As for Christmas--again, Christians do not celebrate pagan things but, rather, the birth of Jesus Christ. And the birth of Jesus Christ is well worth a holiday, considering the incarnation of Christ was a monumental event, and the fact that He was born of a virgin is quite miraculous.

Praise the LORD for all of His works and glories.


More accurately, the accusation is this: that Christians incorporate pagan symbolism and customs into their worship of YHWH/Jesus. Thus, hurting our testimony that he is unique. At least that was my issue with Christianity—that it's not unique—and if it's just a copy of paganism, then why bother giving it, and its Christians, any validity to what they are saying.

Is YHWH/Jesus holy/set-apart? not common/profane? not like the other entities which the pagans worshiped? then why do our traditions—what Christian holidays have evolved into—not fully reflect this biblical holiness / set-apartness, the way it was commanded by God?

If rabbits and easter eggs aren't in the bible, but pagans/polytheists are doing it in the worship of their demons/idols/false gods/nonexistent gods/personification of nature, then the natural conclusion is that: Christians who incorporate the same custom into their worship of Jesus are copying the pagans; so, they must have hijacked the pagan religions, white washed said traditions with Christian titles in the name of conquest, and at the end of the day, they're worshiping the same gods. Christians just don't know any better. They've forgotten. They're just ignorant. They don't know their history.

And for a while, that was what I thought. What's sad is that I've even come across ex-catholics who saw this paganism in their church traditions and decided to jump ship to hellenistic polytheism (instead of biblical Christianity) as a result. It didn't help that when I would ask Catholic/Christian family members WHY a particular food or decoration was a part of their celebration, they couldn't give me any legit biblical answer (where in the bible does it say that this symbolizes that? oh it doesn't); that was all I needed to dismiss their religion. Unfortunately, I lumped all of Christianity along with it, especially after watching that one Zeitgeist documentary claiming "they're all sun gods, even Jesus, yay".

Anyone sincerely examining the tradition can see how certain aspects of the observance are polluting our testimony / witness to the world of who YHWH is and his incarnation into the world. Essentially, " (1) your own bible doesn't command this, nor (2) support this, and (3) in fact it may be talking against this as being true, AND (4) it came from another culture that doesn't worship your God; so, why should I believe anything that comes out of your mouth. You're all liars".

And I would've continued thinking Christianity was a lie, until I read the bible first hand, came across commandments saying his followers were not to worship YHWH the same way the pagans worshiped their gods. And that Jesus couldn't possibly be a sun god because YHWH / Jesus himself created the sun and considered it idolatry if anyone worshiped the sun, moon and stars. It was only then that I started to consider, "maybe biblical Christianity isn't pagan, even if most Christians out there really are pagan in contradiction to what their bible says—even if they claim to be worshiping Jesus/the God of the Bible". That's the opinion I was forming in the back of my mind just by virtue of what Christians celebrated and how they celebrated, what decorations/customs they kept associating with year after year.

Again, if it wasn't for commands such as:

Quote:
Deuteronomy 12:4 (NIV)

4 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way.


Quote:
Deuteronomy 12:29-32 (NIV)

29 The Lord your God will cut off before you the nations you are about to invade and dispossess. But when you have driven them out and settled in their land, 30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.

32 See that you do all I command you; do not add to it or take away from it.[a]

Footnotes:

a Deuteronomy 12:32 In Hebrew texts this verse (12:32) is numbered 13:1.


... then I would not have given Christianity a second chance. And around that time is when I started to question what "holy" and "profane" meant, because I was seeing it a lot throughout Exodus and Leviticus (holy more often than profane). When I eventually got to verses like Ezekiel 22:26, that really made me think, "okay so, all of his commands were suppose to make him stand out against the pagan gods; and if people are holy / set-apart to him, everything about their life is suppose to reflect 100% affiliation to YHWH only".

Quote:
Ezekiel 22:26 (NIV)

Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.


That said, there's no saving "Christmas" for me. Easter and Passover + Feast of Unleavened Bread coincide, so I have no issues with a date for that one. But not for Christmas. Scriptures clearly reflect something different: that he didn't incarnate in winter. It's up to the individual if they're willing to continue associating his incarnation into the world with winter despite scripture saying something different. Not to mention how there are other theories, which I would say are more biblical, that have him incarnating on the Feast of Tabernacles, a feast I can with a clear conscience believe has zero pagan association because YHWH commanded it himself. That, and this whole sun-god, Saturn and Odin worship going around in those winter months, the holly, the yule log, all of it, I want no association with it. I will not give pagans a reason to believe I'm celebrating the birth of their gods or their god period (because Saturn and Odin weren't celebrating their birthday, unlike Mithra & co.).

Maybe now you understand the real issue. I don't know who or what you've been listening to, but the issue isn't that Christians are knowingly worshiping other gods. It's that they're profaning the one they claim to believe in. They're making him sound common, like if he were just another pagan copy, despite changing details to try to save a tradition that never belonged to them in the first place.


So what holidays would you suggest Christians celebrate, then? The Jewish holidays?
 

Scarlet_Teardrops

Sparkly Genius


real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:54 pm
Scarlet_Teardrops

So what holidays would you suggest Christians celebrate, then? The Jewish holidays?


We can celebrate anything which doesn't give the appearance that we adopted traditions from other pagan gods into the worship of YHWH/Jesus. You could include Jewish holidays but we're not limited to them. For example, observing Independence Day and Pocky Day would not convey that we copied the pagans because said holidays did not originate from (nor are associated with) other deities (I don't quite care for those days either; I'm not the celebratory type to begin with). But my point: if you were to observe it, no one would say: "oh, Christianity is false. Look at this tradition, it clearly originated to worship . Christianity is a rip-off. Their Jesus is fake." No, no one would logically make that leap if you celebrated independence day (or pocky day), so they're safe to celebrate.

New Years I do not feel comfortable with; it's not even the New Year according to YHWH and his calendar. It's honoring Janus (unsurprisingly, where we get January from. I don't need to honor Janus, whether he's a non-existent God or a fallen angel's baby [lol] by commemorating this day as special. That said though, I don't think you would receive accusations that Christ is false if you did partake). Secondary reasons why I personally don't celebrate New Year's: the traditions that accompany the festivity, the way my family celebrated/celebrates it, involves (1) getting drunk and (2) idolatry in the form of trusting in creation/trinkets to bring you luck and good health (e.g. eat 12 grapes @ 12:00 am and invite good luck; wear yellow underwear to welcome the new year, it'll bring you money. It's just totally full of superstitious beliefs). Ultimately though, the biggest turn off is how it's not in accord with God's truth: it's not the beginning of the year according to YHWH. For similar reasons, I don't celebrate Valentine's, all Hallow's eve / all Saint's Day / Halloween or "bunny-egg-hunt" flavored Easter. If it isn't a case of (A) a pagan deity getting associated with the holiday, then it's (B) in disaccord with a biblical truth (either about death, sexual behavior, animals not coming after its own kind, etc...) or both (belonging to another "deity" + contradicting biblical truth in some area).

But do not assume YHWH approves of all things Jewish either. Reading through the book of Esther, I question if every holiday passing off as holy/religious/dedicated solely to YHWH should be enforced on par with what YHWH commanded and gave as part of his calendar. They're not the same. I'm not aware of all Jewish holidays, but of the ones recorded in scripture, I would say are safe to keep, but to enforce it the way Esther and Mordecai did, I do not agree with. For example, Esther and Mordecai made Purim into law, that it must be observed by everyone, Jew and foreigner (living among them) alike, though YHWH never commanded it. As soon as I read that, I instantly thought they were making the yoke heavier than it needed to be.

Quote:
Esther 9:20-32 (NIV)

20 Mordecai recorded these events, and he sent letters to all the Jews throughout the provinces of King Xerxes, near and far, 21 to have them celebrate annually the fourteenth and fifteenth days of the month of Adar 22 as the time when the Jews got relief from their enemies, and as the month when their sorrow was turned into joy and their mourning into a day of celebration. He wrote them to observe the days as days of feasting and joy and giving presents of food to one another and gifts to the poor.

23 So the Jews agreed to continue the celebration they had begun, doing what Mordecai had written to them. 24 For Haman son of Hammedatha, the Agagite, the enemy of all the Jews, had plotted against the Jews to destroy them and had cast the pur (that is, the lot) for their ruin and destruction. 25 But when the plot came to the king’s attention,[a] he issued written orders that the evil scheme Haman had devised against the Jews should come back onto his own head, and that he and his sons should be impaled on poles. 26 (Therefore these days were called Purim, from the word pur.) Because of everything written in this letter and because of what they had seen and what had happened to them, 27 the Jews took it on themselves to establish the custom that they and their descendants and all who join them should without fail observe these two days every year, in the way prescribed and at the time appointed. 28 These days should be remembered and observed in every generation by every family, and in every province and in every city. And these days of Purim should never fail to be celebrated by the Jews—nor should the memory of these days die out among their descendants.

29 So Queen Esther, daughter of Abihail, along with Mordecai the Jew, wrote with full authority to confirm this second letter concerning Purim. 30 And Mordecai sent letters to all the Jews in the 127 provinces of Xerxes’ kingdom—words of goodwill and assurance— 31 to establish these days of Purim at their designated times, as Mordecai the Jew and Queen Esther had decreed for them, and as they had established for themselves and their descendants in regard to their times of fasting and lamentation. 32 Esther’s decree confirmed these regulations about Purim, and it was written down in the records.

Footnotes:

a. Esther 9:25 Or when Esther came before the king



I think once they started doing that, it got the ball rolling for what we find the Pharisees steeped in, all those generations later:

Quote:
Mark 7:8 (NIV)

8 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to human traditions.”


i.e you need to wash your hands a certain way even though YHWH never commanded it, declaring they've become undefiled when YHWH doesn't say so. Adding on those kinds of self-imposed traditions as if they were law, over time makes the yoke more burdensome than YHWH ever intended.

As for what YHWH commanded, some observances cannot be (or aren't being) kept by the book—Jews included: passover for instance: if you were following it by the letter, you would set apart a lamb days before passover, spend some time with it, caring for it, then come passover, you would sacrifice that lamb; plus, the men who weren't circumcised in the flesh couldn't participate, whether Jew or Gentile (living amongst them). Technically, we could keep that one literally, but it's definitely not what the Jews are doing: they're keeping a seder, and I don't know if they're tucking in their clothes the way it's commanded (I'm not Jewish), but YHWH never commanded the four different kinds of cups that are a part of the passover seder. In any case, the instructions for this holy day (passover) do not necessitate a temple, not even an altar, ergo, they technically could keep this one, no need to wait for the third temple to be rebuilt. They just aren't doing it (that I'm aware of). Why? I don't know. I guess tradition? the same kind of behavior the Pharisees were guilty of falling into :l

Quote:
Exodus 12:1-11 (NIV)

12 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in Egypt, 2 “This month is to be for you the first month, the first month of your year. 3 Tell the whole community of Israel that on the tenth day of this month each man is to take a lamb[a] for his family, one for each household. 4 If any household is too small for a whole lamb, they must share one with their nearest neighbor, having taken into account the number of people there are. You are to determine the amount of lamb needed in accordance with what each person will eat. 5 The animals you choose must be year-old males without defect, and you may take them from the sheep or the goats. 6 Take care of them until the fourteenth day of the month, when all the members of the community of Israel must slaughter them at twilight. 7 Then they are to take some of the blood and put it on the sides and tops of the doorframes of the houses where they eat the lambs. 8 That same night they are to eat the meat roasted over the fire, along with bitter herbs, and bread made without yeast. 9 Do not eat the meat raw or boiled in water, but roast it over a fire—with the head, legs and internal organs. 10 Do not leave any of it till morning; if some is left till morning, you must burn it. 11 This is how you are to eat it: with your cloak tucked into your belt, your sandals on your feet and your staff in your hand. Eat it in haste; it is the Lord’s Passover.

Footnotes:

a. Exodus 12:3 The Hebrew word can mean lamb or kid; also in verse 4.


Quote:
Exodus 12:43-50 (NIV)

43 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “These are the regulations for the Passover meal:

No foreigner may eat it. 44 Any slave you have bought may eat it after you have circumcised him, 45 but a temporary resident or a hired worker may not eat it.

46 “It must be eaten inside the house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones. 47 The whole community of Israel must celebrate it.

48 “A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it. 49 The same law applies both to the native-born and to the foreigner residing among you.

50 All the Israelites did just what the Lord had commanded Moses and Aaron.


inb4: if a Gentile wanted to keep it, circumcision isn't really an issue for them because Paul circumcised Timothy (who had a Gentile dad).

Quote:
Acts 16:1-3 (NIV)

1 Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. 2 The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. 3 Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.


Timothy wasn't denying Jesus for getting circumcised as an adult under the new covenant. So, it's not like how some people interpret it: "if I get circumcised as a Christian, I'm denying Jesus / the faith"; no, if you try to get circumcised to GET saved / justified / sins atoned for in the eyes of God, yeah you are denying the faith at that point. No work of the flesh will get you saved unlike some sect of Pharisees wanted to impose upon new covenant believers, who on top of getting circumcised said Gentiles needed to keep Moses as a requirement for Salvation. They got the order totally wrong: you get saved, and out of love you can do all those things, it shouldn't be imposed for Salvation. That said, adhering to what YHWH said for the observance of a feast is different; it's not a salvation issue, it's a holy day observance issue. YHWH wanted to represent something specific, that's why he gave regulations even for how you cooked the meat, and how you wore your clothes to eat the meat.

But this is the bigger issue for the other holy appointments YHWH commanded, that can without a doubt NOT be kept by the book with our current circumstances: forget the whole temple being built, what we really need, at the very least, is the altar (I would say, going by the example of Ezra 3:1-6);

Quote:
Ezra 3:1-6 (NIV)

1 When the seventh month came and the Israelites had settled in their towns, the people assembled together as one in Jerusalem. 2 Then Joshua son of Jozadak and his fellow priests and Zerubbabel son of Shealtiel and his associates began to build the altar of the God of Israel to sacrifice burnt offerings on it, in accordance with what is written in the Law of Moses the man of God. 3 Despite their fear of the peoples around them, they built the altar on its foundation and sacrificed burnt offerings on it to the Lord, both the morning and evening sacrifices. 4 Then in accordance with what is written, they celebrated the Festival of Tabernacles with the required number of burnt offerings prescribed for each day. 5 After that, they presented the regular burnt offerings, the New Moon sacrifices and the sacrifices for all the appointed sacred festivals of the Lord, as well as those brought as freewill offerings to the Lord. 6 On the first day of the seventh month they began to offer burnt offerings to the Lord, though the foundation of the Lord’s temple had not yet been laid.


...so, without that altar at least, festivals like Pentecosts/Feast of Weeks, First Fruits, Day of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, the Festival of Tabernacles, really cannot be kept by the letter, the way Paul kept them. Offerings are involved. When Paul continued observing Pentecosts/Feast of Weeks, Passover, etc... the temple hadn't been destroyed yet, that's why he made his every effort to go back to Israel/Jerusalem to observe the feast, and yes he did keep observing them (Acts 20:16; 1 Corinthians 16:8), even the Corinthian Gentiles were keeping passover (1 Corinthians 5:7-8) but like I said no altar or temple is needed for passover (or the weekly Sabbath. I haven't mentioned all of them: you can read Leviticus 23 for that). But Paul clearly was making offerings / at least scheduling them to be made in Acts 21:26; ergo, the temple was still up in his time.

Side note: something I found interesting, we can all agree that David was a righteous Yehudi/Judean/Jew, right? King David and Solomon, thus the first temple, came before the rebuilding of the second temple (which Ezra and Nehemiah were tasked with) yet it says, that during Nehemiah's time, the people hadn't celebrated the Feast of Tabernacles in that way since the days of Joshua son of Nun (that's exodus-journeying-across-the desert-obedient-believers-reaching-the-promised-land times). And King David came before Nehemiah's time, so what does that mean? That David never fully celebrated the Feast of Tabernacles that way? That's what I see communicated. So, it's very easy for the Jews as a society to not be celebrating correctly in full truth or with wholehearted gusto if that's what it means.

Quote:
Nehemiah 8:16-17 (NIV)

16 So the people went out and brought back branches and built themselves temporary shelters on their own roofs, in their courtyards, in the courts of the house of God and in the square by the Water Gate and the one by the Gate of Ephraim. 17 The whole company that had returned from exile built temporary shelters and lived in them. From the days of Joshua son of Nun until that day, the Israelites had not celebrated it like this. And their joy was very great.



We have neither altar nor temple. So the way I see it, no Jew or Gentile can actually keep some of the holy days appointed by YHWH in truth. At least the altar needs to be rebuilt. And that's what the third temple prophesied by Ezekiel is all about: earthly priesthood reestablished. Sacrifices starting up again. Descendants of Zadok as priests. Table for the sacrifices and all.

At most, as far as biblical holy days are concerned, of the ones that require sacrificing, this is what we can do: acknowledge the day when those appointed times fall on our calendar and remember their significance, what they symbolized in the past and their prophetic significance speaking of what Jesus would do (and still has yet to do). I'm sure the practice of abstaining from leavened bread could still be done in remembrance of the feast of unleavened bread. On the day Pentecosts/Feast of Weeks falls on, we could remember when Moses received the law on Mt.Sinai and when the Holy Spirit descended on the rest of the believers (side note: the apostles had already received their portion of the Holy Spirit before the day of Pentecosts/Feast of Weeks, while Jesus was still with them John 20:22; what happens in Acts 2 is after Jesus' ascension on the exact day of Pentecosts/Feast of Weeks). And he never said such days were exclusively for Jews (people of the tribe of Judah or of the southern Kingdom of Judah, however it is that you're defining "Jewish"). YHWH said the appointed times were His. Again, I'm not the celebratory type to begin with, so looking for ways to party is not my concern. I don't know if that's what you meant? or want help with? I can't help you there. But this doesn't mean you must relinquish observing any and all things that have nothing to do with YHWH; we should abstain from the ones that make people think we copied other pagan religions. And don't let your guard down just because something is considered Jewish, but may or may not be accurately reflecting what YHWH commanded.

Update on April 5, 2015 about why Jews aren't obeying the Exodus 12 version of passover (as celebrated in Egypt): YHWH prohibited offering the passover sacrifice outside of the appointed place once they reached the promised land.

    • Deuteronomy 16:5-6 (NIV)

      5 You must not sacrifice the Passover in any town the Lord your God gives you 6 except in the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name. There you must sacrifice the Passover in the evening, when the sun goes down, on the anniversary[a] of your departure from Egypt.

      Footnotes:

      Deuteronomy 16:6 Or down, at the time of day
 
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