Souther Baptist and the Doctrine of Election

[Ratsah]

Whose Will Is driving you to The Lord?  

[Garland-Green]

There is a problem with strict determinism. I don't find it a satisfying answer because there are verses in the Bible that indicate both predestination and free will to be true. It is one of those things I can't wrap my head around, and I have not seen anyone give a final satisfying answer to the "problem." How can God predetermine but man still have a choice? As humans we tend to want everything to be clear cut and comprehensible, anything unexplained leaves us uncomfortable. If strict determinism is true, and man can not resist God then how do you punish someone for being in rebellion? How can you punish a robot? Don't you punish the programmer? How can they be in rebellion and God not call them? If they are unable to respond to God's call for salvation then it is unfair to punish them for not responding. Also how is it fair to call only some, but reject the other and not allow for them the same options? I think fairness is a side of God. If He was not fair - He would not be Just.

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

Issue: The Lord clearly desires that all be saved: If then there is no free will involved, why are not all saved?

On the other hand God can not relinquish power, or control. God can not cease to be God. Absolute authority is an immutable trait of God from what I understand. (Malachi 3:6)

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Can both be true? Can God be in charge - predetermine, and yet at the same time allow for man to have free will? It seems to me that both are true. There seems to be a conflict, but we have a great God. He is big enough to be able to allow for both. Conflict arises because of our limitation, not because of God's limitation. We have to remember that God is unique, that God's nature is so that anything He puts His mind into doing He can accomplish. I think we have to be satisfied with not having all the answers on how.

Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Jeremiah 32:17
"Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you.  

[Ratsah]

Garland-Green

There is a problem with strict determinism. I don't find it a satisfying answer because there are verses in the Bible that indicate both predestination and free will to be true. It is one of those things I can't wrap my head around, and I have not seen anyone give a final satisfying answer to the "problem." How can God predetermine but man still have a choice? As humans we tend to want everything to be clear cut and comprehensible, anything unexplained leaves us uncomfortable. If strict determinism is true, and man can not resist God then how do you punish someone for being in rebellion? How can you punish a robot? Don't you punish the programmer? How can they be in rebellion and God not call them? If they are unable to respond to God's call for salvation then it is unfair to punish them for not responding. Also how is it fair to call only some, but reject the other and not allow for them the same options? I think fairness is a side of God. If He was not fair - He would not be Just.

2 Peter 3:9: "The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."

Issue: The Lord clearly desires that all be saved: If then there is no free will involved, why are not all saved?

On the other hand God can not relinquish power, or control. God can not cease to be God. Absolute authority is an immutable trait of God from what I understand. (Malachi 3:6)

Ephesians 1:11
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

Can both be true? Can God be in charge - predetermine, and yet at the same time allow for man to have free will? It seems to me that both are true. There seems to be a conflict, but we have a great God. He is big enough to be able to allow for both. Conflict arises because of our limitation, not because of God's limitation. We have to remember that God is unique, that God's nature is so that anything He puts His mind into doing He can accomplish. I think we have to be satisfied with not having all the answers on how.

Matthew 19:26
Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

Jeremiah 32:17
"Ah, Sovereign LORD, you have made the heavens and the earth by your great power and outstretched arm. Nothing is too hard for you.

I agree with you. But potentially all our wills are absolved when we are met with the will of God. We bend to the Truth and narrowly crowd through the door of Christ. Forsaking our fleshly needs, our pursuit of 'happiness' but through agony, persecution, crucifying the flesh, whipping the stomach(the seat of manly desires. What Jim is pointing out is that God molds us after the Son of God, putting on the righteousness of Jesus as it were. So what we perceive as free will or the free reign God allows us to roam in the pasture of Life, He eventually guides us and directs us on His will.  

[Ratsah]

Just wanted to let everyone know that I'm going to distance myself from the teachings of Jim Brown. Though he does a relatively decent job explaining Old Testament and New, his numerology/gematria, demons, and a few other doctrine's have been bothering me for some time and should have been discussing my concerns along the way. I would like to say sorry to anyone who was offended in any way or were pulled by his teachings. It took me a while to find the poison in his doctrine. 99% 1% poison in rat poison...as the old saying goes.