I think having more paid events could be a good part of the solution. Raffles, bribes and auctions. I haven't really seen much of those lately.
The free events are great! But I'm sure the colorists and other staff would benefit from some other paid events mixed in.
Maybe there could even be a special breeding raffle where you buy tickets for breeding slots? I wouldn't want ALL of the breedings to do that, but it would be neat to have one of those!
Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 7:54 pm
All I can add to this is that I'm one of those people who doesn't often get to buy Gaia Cash. So I don't buy rigs often.. if at all.. maybe once in a blue moon I'll get some GC as a gift from my spouse.. a fact that's becoming less and less as belts are tightened around here and well.. I play an MMO and like to get little extras on it from time to time..
Fact of the matter is.. I have to scrimp and save to get gold for most of my customs. The colorists are awesome.. But I feel any rise in price might just drive some of us who have an already hard enough time trying to save for months if not years on end to get a custom they'll just have to wait years longer to win, out.
lysia_nyteblade
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pinkdog
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Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2014 11:14 pm
I assume you are talking about custom prices. As far as I am concerned, the prices are already extremely high ^^;; I do not buy Gaia Cash anymore nor have I for quite some time - I have literally been holding onto all the gold from the last time I bought GCash long ago so that I could afford a custom when that happens - after that, I probably will never be able to afford another custom again at full price.
I don't think it is in any way a good response to inflation to just inflate the prices more…
I'm curious though.. are colorists actually feeling they aren't being rewarded? If that's so, could raise prices elsewhere for things like breedings, which could definitely go for more, particularly if their is a graduated rate based on edit level of the parents.
For the most part though, it seems like most people would be coloring at Soq because of love of the shop itself: the credits, access to mutations, dibs on concepts/cosplays (due to ability to use credits), as well as displaying their artistic skill, and having input in the shop itself. If the goal of a colorist became just to make 10mil with every pony, I don't know that that is a shop I would want to be a part of. The exploitation of Gaian users with GCash is already an extreme pet peeve of mine about Gaia that has driven me almost completely off the site. For my part, I would love to see the breedables stay as it always has been, in my opinion, more about the art than the money.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 1:46 am
pinkdog
I don't think it is in any way a good response to inflation to just inflate the prices more…
I'm just going to point out that this isn't exactly how inflation in the economy works. The value of gold has gone down, so the prices go up in response to compensate for it. Refusing to raise prices basically just means you won't be making a profit.
Say you sell a bag for $10. But with inflation, the prices for bags of your skill and make rise up to $50 in order to cover the costs of production. You refuse to raise your prices because you think it won't help any and suddenly you can't afford to produce your product, or your employees quit because you're not paying them enough for them to meet their needs. And you go out of business. The same basic principle is applied here, except that in Soquili, the staff apparently love their jobs too much to care that they're technically now getting paid much less in terms of value.
I don't think it is in any way a good response to inflation to just inflate the prices more…
I'm just going to point out that this isn't exactly how inflation in the economy works. The value of gold has gone down, so the prices go up in response to compensate for it. Refusing to raise prices basically just means you won't be making a profit.
Say you sell a bag for $10. But with inflation, the prices for bags of your skill and make rise up to $50 in order to cover the costs of production. You refuse to raise your prices because you think it won't help any and suddenly you can't afford to produce your product, or your employees quit because you're not paying them enough for them to meet their needs. And you go out of business. The same basic principle is applied here, except that in Soquili, the staff apparently love their jobs too much to care that they're technically now getting paid much less in terms of value.
Gaia Depression 2014. It's coming.
^ this.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 9:24 am
Brosephiine
pinkdog
I don't think it is in any way a good response to inflation to just inflate the prices more…
I'm just going to point out that this isn't exactly how inflation in the economy works. The value of gold has gone down, so the prices go up in response to compensate for it. Refusing to raise prices basically just means you won't be making a profit.
Say you sell a bag for $10. But with inflation, the prices for bags of your skill and make rise up to $50 in order to cover the costs of production. You refuse to raise your prices because you think it won't help any and suddenly you can't afford to produce your product, or your employees quit because you're not paying them enough for them to meet their needs. And you go out of business. The same basic principle is applied here, except that in Soquili, the staff apparently love their jobs too much to care that they're technically now getting paid much less in terms of value.
Gaia Depression 2014. It's coming.
…since this isn't the real world, that comparison is irrelevant.
The value of the gold is only going down for those that are buying GCash and thus have a constant influx of massive amounts of gold. Those people see 5 mil and and it seems to translate to 5k. For those of us that do not, 5 mil is still just 5 mil, and I would not encourage that to suddenly turn into 10 mil.
If you want to make Soquili into an elitist shop for people who are required to waste their real money to just participate, then I think you've destroyed the shop. It's certainly destroyed Gaia. That's my opinion.
I don't think it is in any way a good response to inflation to just inflate the prices more…
I'm just going to point out that this isn't exactly how inflation in the economy works. The value of gold has gone down, so the prices go up in response to compensate for it. Refusing to raise prices basically just means you won't be making a profit.
Say you sell a bag for $10. But with inflation, the prices for bags of your skill and make rise up to $50 in order to cover the costs of production. You refuse to raise your prices because you think it won't help any and suddenly you can't afford to produce your product, or your employees quit because you're not paying them enough for them to meet their needs. And you go out of business. The same basic principle is applied here, except that in Soquili, the staff apparently love their jobs too much to care that they're technically now getting paid much less in terms of value.
Gaia Depression 2014. It's coming.
…since this isn't the real world, that comparison is irrelevant.
The value of the gold is only going down for those that are buying GCash and thus have a constant influx of massive amounts of gold. Those people see 5 mil and and it seems to translate to 5k. For those of us that do not, 5 mil is still just 5 mil, and I would not encourage that to suddenly turn into 10 mil.
If you want to make Soquili into an elitist shop for people who are required to waste their real money to just participate, then I think you've destroyed the shop. It's certainly destroyed Gaia. That's my opinion.
That's not true at all, actually. The price of items has gone up drastically as a result, it effects Gaia's economy as a whole. 5mil is still worth less than it was worth before inflation. 5mil used to be my ultimate bribe in my art shop. Now it's my minimum bribe. Just because you don't see the difference doesn't mean the difference isn't there.
I've already mentioned the pros and cons of raising prices at Soquili and I think its better to just open more events and contests that cost a fee. Freebie events are awesome, but I've yet to see a paid anything. I wasn't arguing in favor of raising prices, I was explaining to you how inflation works.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:29 am
Brosephiine
I think its better to just open more events and contests that cost a fee. Freebie events are awesome, but I've yet to see a paid anything.
There have been lots of events in the past that included both freebie portions and paid portion. For the grand re-opening the colorists and staff were being extraordinarily generous and made the even completely free. But most big events like that include auctions and paid raffles. Those generally end up [even before inflation] being the kinds of things most of us just sat back and looked at with eyes round and wondering where all that gold came from.
Flaffles sometimes are paid and sometimes are free - when they are paid it's a 6k fee and lately someone has been stepping up before the flaffle to just pay for the whole thing for everyone. There haven't been any breedings or customs really opened lately [I have a feeling there are some rule changes going on behind the scenes as well as the colorists being focused on the events and not having time for opening other types of slots] and those are both paid. It's just recently that there has been less paid events. They do happen.
I do think, if prices were to be raised, it should be flaffle and breeding prices raised, but custom prices pretty well stay where they are. Even if flaffle and breeding prices go up, they wouldn't have to go so high as to put them out of the reach of those who don't buy cash. But even before inflation, those prices seemed way low to me, so I can see bumping them up a little.
The main concern is customs. Those prices were amazingly high before inflation. I never would have thought I could achieve 5mil for super rare custom before some of the cash related inflation. Now I can, but I remember what it was like before - and I know my ability to spend cash is severely limited [so I'm hording what gold I have].
I think what most people in this thread are worried about is edging out those who can't spend the cash. And, for me at least, those who are trying to return after a time away from Gaia. Every so often someone pops back after having been away for a year or more. If they come back just to see prices somewhere beyond their wildest dreams, and no way to make it besides to spend real world money . . . I'm sure a lot of them would just leave again never to return.
We love our colorists/staff here. Really we do. We also love all the customers, and want everyone to feel invited, welcome, included. Trying to balance those two is very difficult. But the colorists/staff don't seem unhappy with the way things are right now. So while we would love to spoil them ridiculously, maybe that becomes a bit of a personal thing for those who can.
While I can certainly afford an increase in custom prices right now, I know a lot of people can't. As long as the colourists feel they're being adequately compensated at the current prices, I don't see a reason to up those.
Breedings and flatsales I think could do with an increase though. Breedings especially. The breeding fee is what, 12k? 12k for what could be up to 3 (4 in the case of elders, isn't it?) very heavily edited pets. That's a lot of work for what's basically pennies. I know traditionally in the B/C breedings haven't cost much, but I do really think that shouldn't be the case. There was recently a skinwalker breeding that had three baskets. If those three pets were customed, they would've been a few mil each, but if the breeding was won during breeding slots, they'd only be 12k.
I honestly wouldn't mind at all if the breeding fee increased. I think it's only fair for the work put into them personally. My vote for that isn't because of inflation though--it's solely because I've always thought the ratio of pay to the amount of work done on breedings is insane.
Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2014 2:16 pm
I've always felt that breeding a flaffle fees were much too low and would like to see them increased if nothing else is.
I'm perfectly aware of how inflation works, Brosephiine. But inflation does not work the same for everyone when not everyone is involved in the system that is causing the inflation. 5 mil might be less to you, but it still it just as much to me as when I started in 2004, because I'm not throwing my real money at Gaia. When shops do not take that into consideration by raising their prices to absurd heights, they are just pushing out everyone that doesn't want to spend real money; they might as well close shop and open commissions on DeviantArt, because it's the same thing. It's really pretty cut and dry. The breedables has mostly been able to avoid getting sucked into that nonsense, and I would be happy if it stayed that way.
Auctions are a perfectly acceptable way for colorist to earn massive amounts of gold. I don't know what level colorist you have to be in order to get that privilege, but I don't think anyone would protest if they did more auctions in order to make up for the lower prices elsewhere, if that is something that is important to them.
I agree with other that it would be a great idea to raise prices for flatsales and breedings, especially, like I said before, if you had graduated pricing based on edit level. Not custom prices, but certainly something more substantial would be perfectly appropriate.
Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2014 5:01 pm
Kaitaia
While I can certainly afford an increase in custom prices right now, I know a lot of people can't. As long as the colourists feel they're being adequately compensated at the current prices, I don't see a reason to up those.
Breedings and flatsales I think could do with an increase though. Breedings especially. The breeding fee is what, 12k? 12k for what could be up to 3 (4 in the case of elders, isn't it?) very heavily edited pets. That's a lot of work for what's basically pennies. I know traditionally in the B/C breedings haven't cost much, but I do really think that shouldn't be the case. There was recently a skinwalker breeding that had three baskets. If those three pets were customed, they would've been a few mil each, but if the breeding was won during breeding slots, they'd only be 12k.
I honestly wouldn't mind at all if the breeding fee increased. I think it's only fair for the work put into them personally. My vote for that isn't because of inflation though--it's solely because I've always thought the ratio of pay to the amount of work done on breedings is insane.
Yeaaah.... This sort of work is still mostly considered free by the staff working on it and the price differences are only there (breedings aside) to show a difference between free and paid game pets. The distinction allowed us to run the wishing star along side of the re-opening event without penalizing anyone for entering both.
Honestly there's no price hike for these sorts of thing that's both worth worrying about and fair. The only thing I'd consider hiking is custom prices and even then only if it can be done fairly. (As I said before I don't think it can).
Paid raffles and auctions will adjust for inflation automatically so there's no sense in worrying about those.
At first I'll admit I was all for raising the prices, but as others mentioned, that's still a lot for most people who have been saving up. I'll just be more inclined to tip to help cover the difference myself.
That being said... Pretty sure inflation is inflation whether you chose to buy gaia cash or not...
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 4:08 pm
Speaking as, in my six years in the B/C, shop owner of two, shop artist at varying levels of three more, and manager of a few more I can't remember off the top of my head, I will say this.
Saving for a Soquili custom, especially a high end one, has always been difficult. Winning anything raffled for a lot of us, especially people who may only get a few Soqs a year, if that, has always been difficult and frustrating. I needed to work at least one B/C gig, sometimes two or three, just to be able to afford either a Soq or an item I've been dreaming of for years on the Gaia marketplace. I have not had a Gaia cash card in two or three years, and even when I did get them, I got the $10 ones as Xmas prezzies from my little sister, only one per year.
Hiking the prices is NOT something I wanna see in Soq. I actually cheered years ago when there was even a temporary price drop. Where I'm at now, I can finally start expecting to regularly see millions in terms of items and gold in auctions I color for, which is a major honor and sign of appreciation. However, I remember being able to buy a few things I liked and wanted with that auction money, and being able to set aside the rest towards a Soquili customs quest. In the past year, I have not been able to afford a single RIG thing, and I can't even afford the monthly collectibles anymore. I remember being excited about being able to buy those at will once I started working in the B/C. D8
And to boot, I have not been employed for a year and a half, which makes it even WORSE to afford stuff on Gaia right now. D8
And, quite frankly, in my long years in the B/C, what is the most reward and prize for me has been the happiness of my customers. The money's nice, it helps me pay for anything else I want, but that's not why I do it. It's been suggested increasingly to me that I could apply to work here, and my objections have been that I need to give love to my own beloved shop, and, until this fall, that I didn't feel artistically qualified to apply to have my name added to the staff roster. Sure, being a Soquili colorist might be fun, but the gold wouldn't be why I do it, even if it does fund stuff I like; I'd do it specifically to make it EASIER for the newer and unluckier people to get things, to make the easily frustrated SMILE with happiness. Not reward the few people who can afford the ax-crazy prices that were in play when I first joined Soq. I remember the exclusive feel of it, especially with the high prices. For me, being a Soquili staffer means having a certain amount of respect for having displayed more skill than average. The higher prices reflect that greater respect for greater skillz.
Inflation may be in effect, and while raising the prices for flaffles and breedings may not be a horrific idea, I am definitely opposed to a price hike for customs. They're still a precious luxury for most of us, and, given the way Gaia's inflation has skyrocketed, to charge a fair price for a Soquili custom that would be comparable to previous standards, even an adult Usdia would need to cost somewhere in the neighborhood of 1mil. If I had to pay higher than 1mil for anything that's either not insanely edited/mutated/hyperhybrid, or rather rare, I would probably drop all of my quests in Soquili, and instead get them somewhere else. The price hike for customs idea feels rather like a case of "higher prices for those who can afford them cuz Gaia's broken and becoming too stupidly expensive these days." And that feels like punishment of people who work hard for a custom Soq of their own. D8 That's not something I wanna see. Even if the poor newbies are richer than they used to be, it's probably still hard work to afford one, and Soquili's prices range two to five times as high as non-anthro shops.
Just my humble opinion as someone who's gone through this kind of difficulty for a long time, and really does not wanna see things get more difficult. >>;
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