[S] Cosplay Question - We Want Your Thoughts!

[Uta]

Hey guys,

So I'm coming to the group as a whole to suggest a possible future rule change. This is something Mindsend and I are both on board with, but we also want to get a feel for how you, the customers, might feel to see if this is even something we should consider.

Please read everything in this post before you reply, and please, let's not make this an argument thread or a drawn out fight full of defensive wording or general unrest. We're not changing anything yet, but it's something that we're considering.

Mind and I would like to change the cosplay rules to make it so there are no more cosplay restrictions.

In a nut shell, what this would mean would be that there are no more first come, first serve cosplays. Anybody and everybody could get whatever cosplay they would like, assuming they have the funds and land a custom slot.

Now, before you panic, please see the reasoning's behind why we would like to go this route.

--->1. First and foremost, limiting cosplays in soquili breeds unhealthy competition. There are countless times we've had complaints and individuals grumble about so-and-so getting a cosplay or having someone buy them a cosplay or picking up a cosplay with Staff Credits. Nobody seems particularly happy by the limitation that a beloved character or cosplay was snatched before them -- be it because we haven't been in a spot to open up customs, or multiple people vied for the same character and one of them got the cosplay first! We're definitely trying to open up custom slots, and we do plan on hiring more colorists, but it is near impossible in a shop this large to give out as many soquili on such a large scale as to please everyone.

--->2. It doesn't make sense for cosplays to be limited. Cosplays are not the actual character they're cosplaying! That's right. All cosplays are in soquili is a soquili that happens to dress up like them. That's it. They don't inherit their history, they don't inherit powers, they don't come from some magical setting, they don't even have family or relatives like the cosplay might. ICly the soquili is just a soquili who is designed/dressed after some pop-culture reference that only we, OOCly, understand. So it doesn't matter if two or three or twenty ponies all wear clothing similar to Link from Legend of Zelda -- none of them are actually Link! And all of them could be designed differently, even if they have the same cosplay look i.e. a green outfit and boots and hat or something. None of them would wind up looking the same because every colorist has their own style, every person who would like a Link has their own interpretation of the character, and we have so many different breeds to cross and use that there would be no cookie-cutter characters.

Additionally, as has been proven in the WoW event, customers don't seem to really mind if a character looks similarly. Look at all the original WoW Harpies that were given away -- the exact same base, just different colors. Each one of them has wound up an individual. And those were legitimately cookie-cutter templates, so to speak. Even if two people got the same cosplay, they would be unique and they would have their own flare and personal touches.

We've also done away with horsebreed, natural breed, and pokemon limitations, again, without anyone fussing or complaining.

--->3. It opens things up substantially. Not only can individuals suddenly get their beloved cosplays, but the shop can actually run or include cosplay characters without issue. We can do themed events like Disney Villains or Disney Princesses and it wouldn't matter, because while it's the theme, and they're based on cosplays, they're still unique characters to those who win them. Additionally, ICly it opens up how individuals portray them. We've had people express concern because they get harassed or judged by not "representing the character" right ICly, or their design gets grumbled about by fans. . . . By opening up cosplays to everyone, now nobody has to care how a cosplay is represented or portrayed or designed, because for those who care, they can simply get their own!

~ ~ ~ ~

Now, we understand people might be concerned about this possible implementation-- it's why we're asking for feedback before we do anything. We're not considering this rule to be "against" owners who already own cosplays, or against anybody. We're doing this because the cosplay fight and competition has been steadily growing over the years, and doesn't make for a healthy environment. Times are changing, and the shop needs to change, too. Opening up cosplay restrictions means that everyone wins, instead of just select individuals or those whom get lucky or have means for obtaining cosplays.

It also means we don't have to worry about a cosplay list, so people don't have to be disappointed if that list isn't accurate or up to date. It means that there aren't any rules or limitations on who can get a cosplay, or the confusion on trying to figure out if one iteration of a character is the same character, and if it can be quested for or not. While we understand in the B/C there is a standard that cosplays are unique and special, soquili is simply too big of a shop to keep that rule in place. There's no sense in limiting them these days and we feel this move would solve a lot of competition and drama that has occurred over the years.

As always, we just want to know if folks would be open to such a change or not. We'd love to know if you like it, and why, or if you don't care for it, and why. :3  

[Mameha Otome]

Hmmm...in all honesty I both like and dislike this idea and ultimately I'm going to personally say no.

Why I like it?
- Simple, it gives me a chance at a cosplay I had been actively after and still feel like it was purposely sniped out from under me in spite due to the person who owns him. It would also give me a chance to get another cosplay I wanted ages ago that was also claimed but through entirely different means.

Why I don't like it?
- I've always enjoyed the idea of one (and only one) existing in a shop setting. Yes, you say they're only cosplaying and not actually that character, but let's be honest here...we all kinda RP some of them as if they are (insert animal type here) version of that character. We mold them enough to fit the rules and settings of course. Therefore...it's kind of a huge pain and kind of a slap in the face to suddenly give out multiples of certain characters.
So with that...yeah I would be kind of bitter about certain characters I may or may not own suddenly appearing with another person as well. Al'ar in question...he may not be what my original custom form called for (due to being mutations at the time) but he's still Al'ar to me and very important. Al'ar in WoW is a specific named phoenix mob with his coloration only. Yes, you can get him as a mount in those colors but he's still Al'ar as far as I'm concerned. The exception would be the dark/shadow phoenix mount that looks like him.

But what about the WoW mounts/harpy re-colors and the various Pokemon?
- To be honest, I find those 100% entirely different. I feel they go along the lines of natural animals and simply changing accessories, colors, breed, etc makes them entirely new.
The WoW mounts/harpies/etc especially match this because there are HUNDREDS of different colors/designs for them in game. They're all individual. I own a couple of the WoW mounts and I don't care that others exist in different colors. Why? Because they're not named/very specific characters.
Same goes for Pokemon. Permission was given to get them in different designs, shiny/non-shiny, whatever crazy colors we can come up with, gender swaps, breed swaps, etc. Some even with permission from the original owner. I know I'd give anyone permission for another Celebi cosplay because mine is just that, a Celebi...not any specific Celebi...just a generic Celebi.

- In line with this, when we go for very specific and NAMED characters wherein only ONE exists in their world...I feel like a lot of us want just that. Just that one to exist. Maybe we come off as selfish and special snow-flakey...but c'mon...I revert back to the idea that we all honestly RP our pets as that character...we often don't make up a new personality to act like it's just some fan dressed up as them.
So I see a HUGE difference between something that was made to allow multiples to exist and something that only one was meant to exist.


Call me selfish and bitter, but I'm still going to say no to this idea. *shrug*  

[Kamiki]

I'm still trying to sort my feelings on this. I have a battle of pros and cons raging in my head smile

I do have a few less extreme suggestions, however, if this idea doesn't end up going well.

• Don't let staff buy Cosplays with staff credits - for themselves or others. If staff want cosplays, they can try for them in contests/custom slots like everyone else
  
  
• Cosplays cannot be CC'd - to avoid favoritism. Cosplays can only be obtained via normal custom rollings or contest wins (for example, if you win an art contest prize or something)
  

This isn't meant to "punish" staff at all, but it does put things on an even playing board with the rest of the Soquili community in this ONE aspect of the shop. Even if you have the funds, getting a custom is HARD. You're competing against hundreds of other Soquili members for a tiny chance of winning a custom; and customs have been so rare. When you're staff, you get a custom whenever you earn the credits/turn in for one. And that's TOTALLY FAIR considering the work they do, but it does give them a VERY unfair advantage to these "limited" type slots. It makes it easier to claim whatever cosplays staff want, often scooping them up before anyone else has even had the opportunity to even TRY for one.  

[Revel1984]

I've got to admit, i'm really not a fan of this idea but i have to agree with both Mameha's and Kamiki's comments, they've pretty much already said anything i had in mind about it.  

[Yeonn]

I kinda like this idea..In the fact being if one SOq mets another who is cosplaying the same character..that would make for an interesting interaction.

Then again it is kind of an odd idea and i do kinda agree with what the others have said  

[Revolutionary Roniel]

I'm still mulling over my thoughts on this, but in case this turns into a debate on staff cosplay claiming, I figured I'd clarify the rules so people have the proper background info.

As of the rules right now, staff can buy one cosplay a year for themselves, and can buy any particular non-staffer one cosplay per year as well.

So I could buy person X, person Y, and person Z a cosplay, but not buy person X two cosplays in a year.
Staffer B could buy people X, Y, and Z cosplays too, but also could not buy any one of them two cosplays.  

[CitrusCupcake]

I'm really on the fence about this.

On the one hand over the years there are a couple of cosplays I would have loved to have gotten, but have had to watch them get snatched up before me.
So being able to try for a different version of them would be a yes.

On the other hand, I have two cosplays myself - one I wouldn't mind seeing other versions of at all, and the other I would be really, really unhappy to see another one of, mostly because she's played as Mameha has mentioned as a Soq version of the character & so having another one would just jar in my mind.

So whilst there's a part of me that would love to try for a cosplay that's already been gotten, I have big reservations as well.  

[Sabin Duvert]

Personally, I'm on the fence about this as well.

And it mainly boils down to the issue already brought up being that, realistically, I don't think anyone plays their cosplay as a horse in a costume. It's kind of a misnomer. IT's more like a horse!AU version of the character.

In the setting, even, most of the characters that would be cosplayed are from, well, books and movies/anime/TV, and soquili don't read and the setting is pre-television. So it doesn't really make sense that it's just a soquili dressed up as their favorite character. Realistically, 99% of the cosplays out there are of characters the soquili would have never had any reason to have heard about.

Most people play named cosplays (not including fantasy races like pokemon or wow mounts/critters) as that character interpreted into the soquili world.

I mean... yeah, I've had a number of cosplays I went after snatched out from under me, and it kind of put me off going after most of the ideas. I don't have many cosplays, all things considered, especially ones after singular, unique characters. But those that I do have, I play as mentioned - that character interpreted into the soquili world. They may not have any powers associated with the character that the soquili breed doesn't have, but that doesn't mean the backstory isn't based off of the character and adapted into the setting.

I do think that staff being able to buy cosplays with credits put them at an unfair advantage at such a competitive situation. Most of the cosplays lately have been through staff purchases. And while I had heard about the year rule, I was under the impression that it was one purchase per year period. I didn't think/know that they could still buy one every turn-around as long as it was for a different person - and I still think that's pretty unfair. It makes the community of cosplay owners - especially looking at the grouping of soquili from popular series - into a clique.

I think if the "middle ground" option Kamiki brought up is chosen, then that should also include barring cosplays from bribe slots (though that's probably understood in what she said) considering those are all CC as well.

It might be too late for some characters now if things aren't opened up again to everyone, but... I am glad that the issue is being brought up and open for discussion among the soq community.  

[ATh e a r t]

I think the only way I'd be okay with this is that if a cosplay is owned already and it isn't wildlife, I think they should get an okay from the first owner. But I mean, I guess it's yes once, yes for everyone though.

But if it's a no, it should at least be open to OCs that are based off a cosplay, but not exact xD

Edit; if we didn't open this up, I wouldn't mind changing the staff SC purchase to only one limited cosplay in general (ei. Either for you or a friend, not you and friends).

But that doesn't take into consideration that we just opened up customs to juniors and the fact that there most likely be more customs soon.  

[LydaLynn]

Personally, one of the frustrating things for me with cosplays has been that this shop has been around for a long time. There are a lot of cosplays that have been made and then disappeared into the aether. They aren't in the gene pool, they aren't around, they're just on a list of no-touchy.

I would love to see those open up.

Conversely I can understand people wanting to keep their cosplay, that they got with the expectation of it being the only one, unique.

I would almost like to see an 'active cosplay' list. Where, once every six months or so, an owner has to post keeping their cosplay on the list. Those who don't care or who aren't around any more, don't have their cosplay on the list and it opens that character back up. Then, once there's more than one iteration of a character, it can't be restricted again.

It's not a great solution and it would be extra work, but it lets those who have what they expected to be a unique character keep that character unique.

To me, opening it up without some consideration for those who currently have cosplays is like suddenly saying that anyone can get a mutant three wings custom even though there was that auction that promised only the one family line would have that trait.

All that said, I'm happy with continuing as is or making the change. However, I do agree with the idea that cosplays be removed from what staff can get with credits if the rule isn't changed.

Thank you guys for constantly looking at the rules and trying to make changes to help the shop grow. You are appreciated.  

[JetAlmeara]

I like this idea for the following reasons.

1) Many Cosplays have been gotten in the past that are outdated/inactive...this change would allow people to get updated/altered/rebooted versions of much loved characters that have changed drastically over the course of the years Example - Rainbow dash/most of the my little ponies etc.

2) Most characters are seen and portrayed differently by many people. Cosplay 1 of the same character as Cosplay 2 - even if it based on the exact same series/books/movies would probably be played vastly differently because we as people tend to interpret characters differently.

3) It is my understanding that the Soquili RP world isn't 100% concrete anyways, as in many herds can 'claim' to exist on the exact same spot on the map etc - so I see it as more of a multiple universe type of place. All MY herds exist in the same world storyline wise but I know that some herds conflict with the canon of other herds in existence but since they don't really interact with one another ICly then it doesn't really effect either party. ICly these cosplays would never have to know that another 'version' of them existed unless the owners wanted them too, it wouldn't really affect their stories at all.

I think as long as the cosplays were not exact carbon copies of one another edit wise then they would be two unique visions and thus separate entities who just happen to be inspired by similar concepts.  

[Nisshou H]

Now here are my thoughts on this.

As a whole I'm really iffy on the idea because a lot of people (myself included) are fond of having the only cosplay of that character around. Yes it bites when someone else gets it before you do. I've had that happen in many instances but you get over it and start questing something else.

As Sabin pointed out I've never actually seen anyone RPing a cosplay pony as a cosplay. Sabin's right, they treat them like a pony-verse character which is why we have all the adaptation rules around. It's so people know they have to craft the backstory to fit the universe because everyone knows that backstory is probably going to be used in some way. It's not likely someone's going to go "Oh hi, this is my horse Thorin Oakenshield, he just happened to pick up some random trinkets and a really weird name for a horse just cause."

As Roni pointed out staff shouldn't be as much of an issue since we literally just put those rules about the one cosplay a year thing down. I don't know how many non-staffers knew about that though. (Might be a good idea to make things more public to alleviate fears.)

I really don't think the rules should change. If they do I think they absolutely NEED to come along with Heart's suggestion that people get an okay from the original owner first. Maybe some people don't care as much as others and that's fine but some of us like having the only one.
((Personally I'd be fine with people getting other Dark's since mines really focused on earlier interpretations of his character but it took a lot of planning to get my dwarves and Tauriel was a birthday present so I don't much want to share them. And lets be honest having two dwarf kingdoms run by Thorin Oakenshield at the shop would just get really damn confusing. Can you imagine having two Daenerys Targaryen khalasars running around?))

Other thoughts: does this infringe on gaia's b/c grandfathering rules? If you get a cosplay and are promised it will be the only cosplay...doesn't someone else getting one of that character break that contract? We already know a certain mod hates the shop do we want that potentially coming down on us?
((edit: I've determined from talking to people that this is probably the most useful thing I've said in this so bolded for emphasis.))
((edit again: So if we did this it would have to be limited to cosplays purchased after whatever date the rules became official.))

The shop already allows non-direct cosplays. I've seen them running around. They just slip into happy OC land and no one stops them. People can just keep doing that.  

[Jackariah Beckett]

I like the idea =). But thats mainly because there are a few cosplays I would have liked to get and are already taken. Especially since the owner hasn't been seen in years and the soq in particular is almost unedited and pretty much only looks like the 'cosplay' in name only =(.


I do admit, I might have negative feelings at first about someone getting a cosplay I have. Certainly if I believe the person who got it after me had more funds to make it 'better' looking lD. But thats pretty much the only reason I wouldn't want multiple cosplays.


One of the reasons I don't rp Liliana as much is because I'm hesitant of rping her unlike how others view the character. It doesn't help that I haven't really had the time to read up on ALL the backstory and new things that have happened to her after I got her as a custom. So people getting multiples would alleviate that paranoia at least a little lol.

And I'd really love to see more Care Bears running around >___>.


And I'd love to see what Smaug would do if he saw another of himself x'3. Or Spock hahaha.



Anywho, long story short, I'd be up for it<3. I'm slightly hesitant, but I believe the shop has the ability to figure it all out nwn.  

[Revel1984]

I really like the idea of Active Cosplay list, where people have left the shop/gaia completely and won't be coming, opening up those would be a nice idea but maybe have something special for those, something along the lines of Elder Applications, we have to have something like an rp or questions etc about said character, why you want it, what you plan to do with it, etc. Not exactly a competition but that way it would mean only the people that REALLY want it would apply for it, rather than it be a free for all thing.  

[ProphetOfProfit]

Honestly I really like this idea. These ponys are cosplays not the characters. A fact a lot of people seem to just ignore.
think about it in rl Multiple people Cosplay the same char. it just makes sense and I think will help people remember that they are just cosplays.
so I fully agree with multiples of the same one running about so long as they don't look the same. Make it like the twin rule but opposite they have to have at least say a 40% difference from an already exsisting Cosplay.