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 Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 8:36 am
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Kamiki I'm still trying to sort my feelings on this. I have a battle of pros and cons raging in my head smile
I do have a few less extreme suggestions, however, if this idea doesn't end up going well.
Don't let staff buy Cosplays with staff credits - for themselves or others. If staff want cosplays, they can try for them in contests/custom slots like everyone else
Cosplays cannot be CC'd - to avoid favoritism. Cosplays can only be obtained via normal custom rollings or contest wins (for example, if you win an art contest prize or something)
This isn't meant to "punish" staff at all, but it does put things on an even playing board with the rest of the Soquili community in this ONE aspect of the shop. Even if you have the funds, getting a custom is HARD. You're competing against hundreds of other Soquili members for a tiny chance of winning a custom; and customs have been so rare. When you're staff, you get a custom whenever you earn the credits/turn in for one. And that's TOTALLY FAIR considering the work they do, but it does give them a VERY unfair advantage to these "limited" type slots. It makes it easier to claim whatever cosplays staff want, often scooping them up before anyone else has even had the opportunity to even TRY for one.
I agree with these suggestions more than anything else. ninja
Regardless, I'm happy to see the shop step forward in attempting change! |
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:37 am
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I don't know... I think that this idea is a bad one... Maybe could be turned to good, but from my perspective, it would cause a lot of anger and irritation. I think it would make the community open up to even more conflict.
Generally when it comes to Cosplays, yea, it sucks when someone else gets one that you want. I wanted to get Tauriel, and Niss got her first. But did I let it ruin my mood or my friendship with Niss? No. Because I knew that it was something I couldn't fight. And I didn't care. She got her first, and for her birthday. Yea I wanted her, but there are plenty of other cosplays out there, and plenty of other OC's/customs to get. That's how this has always been, and I think that changing it would be a bad idea to most people who have cosplays already.
For instance, if I saw someone walking around with Smaug or Spock, I would avoid them completely. I'd be irritated and upset that cosplays that I hold very dear to my heart were suddenly able to be obtained by others and were wanting them to meet. It'd make me upset. I play Spock, for instance, as Spock would be portrayed in the movies and series. He's logical and firm and very unemotional. And if he were to see another "Spock" I think I would just get irritated and drop the RP all together. And I don't know about other people, but my character meeting someone who is exactly like them... it'd be weird and awkward and upsetting.
I also think it may get confusing when it comes to breedings. Seeing Spock on three different couples lists? Or if they wanted to pair their Spock with Jim Kirk, who I also own, would be odd. I think it'd get confusing for the mates of those ponies, in character wise.
------
I think that if it's edited a little, it may work. Like others have said; maybe have people ask permission first, or start it for "after this date" or something. I don't have many cosplays, and it may sound selfish, but I wouldn't want to share any of mine. They're special to me; half of them were gifts from friends and I wouldn't want to see ten Smaug's running around the shop trying to be top dragon. Yea, it's upsetting sometimes when other people get a cosplay before you; but think about it. If you had a character that you had developed for months or years, and someone else got another one of them, and just started to run around and try to Rp them together, how would you feel?
I probably shouldn't be typing this when I've been at work more than I've been at home. xD |
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:51 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:54 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:40 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:53 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:11 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:17 am
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:38 am
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Revel1984 hanging gallow Some may be waiting to post or can't yet it is still early. As well for not posting there isn't a requirement to do so if they don't want to and or want to avoid conflict then let them. Stating that they aren't is unnecessary and will just lead to resentment so please keep such comments out of the thread. It's best to just post what you think about the rule and why it should or shouldn't be created and if you want to agree with someone or agree with a suggestion do so I would much rather see people's opinion on the matter. i didn't mean it like that, i meant that despite the fact it's not something i want to see, it would be nice to see posts from people wanting it and why, rather than it ALL being about reservations and whatnot apologies if i didn't make that clear.
I am sure some will even I will when I go home just give some time <3 |
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:40 am
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Thanks for the thoughts, everyone, who has thus replied.
Again, we're just trying to get thoughts and feelings. It's not something we're planning on doing willy-nilly, but it's simply something we talked about.
For people who are concerned about their characters acting like the actual cosplay, I'm sorry to say it, but they never should have. Ever. It's always been in the rules that cosplays are no actual characters from those books or histories or stories -- they're just ponies who dress up like them. Just like any cosplayer. That is not a rule we've ever changd, it's always been that way, and that's not really a valid reason not to change the rule.
If individuals are concerned about someone else getting a character that dresses in a similar style, then, for those who RP, their characters simply never have to meet. Seeing how people write in individual threads, it's not like characters need to even now of other herds or another's existence.
As for Nissy's concern about the grandfather rule, Mind and I talked about that too. If this really was something we wanted to open up officially, we'd likely talk to a mod first to see if it was breaking any rules, or if we needed to have a list or a "from this point on" sort of deal.
Again, it's not like we're going to be making a move on this soon. It's just something we were talking about, and a serious pain point in the shop.
And I have taken note of the SC/Bribes/Whatnot issue over cosplays. I don't really think this thread is the place to discuss that one, but it's something I will bring up either in another thread or just with Mind/the staff. I personally have no problem whatsoever making it that cosplays can only ever be rolled for - not bribed, not picked up by SC, just . . simply in customs for everyone.
But, again, I feel like that's a different discussion.
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:08 pm
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Weee. Unpopular opinion time.
I love this. I deliberately don't go after cosplays because the B/C is so harsh about it. And don't fight me and say it's not, it is. There's always bitterness about it. Who gets the cosplay, how the cosplay ends up being played, the eventually love orientation of the cosplay that you love so much not being the one you saw in your head, the cosplay being obtained and then 'left to rot' so to speak because the player only wanted sig candy. Which is fine but it still causes bitterness. In Soq specifically, there are so many cosplays that where either never played, or played very little. Their owners have them, they will have them forever, but they don't use them. And the bitterness cycle continues.
But because the rule is so ingrained in B/C culture, your going to get a lot of resistance about this. We're used to the 'mine now, not yours no touch' mentality. Some of us have been here for years and years and years. We're really used to it. You're asking for cultural change, not just a rule change. Your asking for revolution, and in revolution there is always resistance.
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:12 pm
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First and foremost, I would like to point out that in the above poll, it says to post if you have concerns. If you do not have concerns, there is every reason to think it unnecessary, as much that you may think or feel is covered by the proposed changes post.
However, I am willing to explain why I am in favor of this rule change, and to outline a few reasons why it may be more reasonable than it seems.
1 ) No matter how well you roleplay a character, your interpretation (anyone's interpretation) of that character is simply that, your idea of the character. Even if you consider your Soquili cosplay to be the character, they are by their very nature not the canon character. For this reason alone, I feel that it would not take away from the character that you had.
2 ) There are several examples of changes to Soquili's rules that may technically break the "grandfathering" rule in the B/C, but none of these changes have been railed against by Soquili members. For example, when Meeki and I got Hellfire and Brimstone, we were told that they, along with a pair of twin sisters, would be the only nightmares in the shop. Forever. Obviously, that has changed. There is in fact, an entire race built around the idea of achieving a nightmare or other elemental/dragon/whatever you want at the time. None of the owners of the original nightmares made a peep when the rules changed. Likewise, no one complained when the natural breed rules changed. No one complained when the wildlife breed rules changed. In what way is this different?
3 ) As every roleplay interpretation of a character is different by default, so to are the visual interpretations of a character different. No matter how similar they may be, every artist will render them at least slightly differently. For example, if you and a friend were trying create the same image, your strokes would inevitably be different, the paints you used might be different, and the end result would be different, because your styles would be different. Even the Mona Lisa's sister painting has small detail that are not the same, though it was made at the same time, in the same location, by one of Da Vinci's assistants. Take, for example, the rendering of Harry Potter to the movie screen: although an attempt was made to render the characters faithfully, due to human limitations, they were not exactly the same as the book characters. If we already multiple iterations of the same character in some cases, why not in all?
4 ) It's been mentioned that people like to have their special characters when they can. Everyone wants that special snowflake "this is just mine" sort of feeling. Do they really? How many people in this shop have looked at an old or current cosplays in longing, because they simply were not able to get it at the time. This is certainly a changing paradigm, but it follows in the wake of changes that have been made. It is a change designed to be open handed, which I think can only benefit the shop and the players in the shop.
5 ) Consider how funny a chorus of Elsas would be.
6 ) A number of people have a disproportionate ability to gain access to cosplays and other things. While you could limit that ability, why not instead extend and improve the ability of others to access cosplays? In a MMORPG, it is often thought by the developers of the games that nerfing one or more classes will help to balance the game. I disagree. I think that the best way to achieve balance is to level the playing field by empowering the other classes. This applies directly here. As was mentioned in the introductory post, the Soquili staff would be free to make events surrounding characters, without any concern for whether those characters were "available". While people who already have a number of cosplays would also gain access to them, so would the people who don't seem to get cosplays that they want, including new players and old alike.
7 ) The cosplay rules as they stand are a headache. Sorting through whether a "personal character" infringes on a "cosplay" can be very draining. Arguments are had, feelings are hurt, and nobody goes home happy. Things slip through the cracks. For example, Katch's Lord Loren might almost be considered a cosplay of Lord Loren Soth, who belongs to Meeki, per at least one iteration of the cosplay rules. He barely scrapes by, in my opinion, but there are arguments to be made for personal characters that very closely resemble canon characters being totally acceptable. If we are already accept that this behavior is okay, why not go all the way, and simply allow people to have those characters. It's already difficult to tell which characters qualify, which do not. Why make this hard for ourselves?
8 ) Additionally, per the Soquili rules, no matter how you may feel about it, the cosplay is not the canon character.
I'm sure that I probably have a lot of reasons to vote in favor of the potential changes, but these are my thoughts for the time being.
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:16 pm
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:23 pm
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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:38 pm
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While the idea DOES seem appealing... I personally say no to it.
The thing with EVERY Breedables shop is that there's usually only one cosplay of a character, EVER. In shops like SoA, there CAN be duplicates, but it HAS to be on a DIFFERENT species' lines. So say person A gets Spock as a lion. Person B also wants Spock... So they'll have to get Spock as something ELSE. If they're REALLY lucky that they find parents who could produce it(As they just changed the rule on litter customs - They now MUST look like the family, as too many WTF cubs were popping up in litters on pride lineart), they COULD even get him as a hybrid cat(Lion/cheetah, lion/leopard, leopard/cheetah). That doesn't quite work so well in Soquili, where there's only four true varieties to go with - Mer, Seathi, Usdia, and Full-size.
The rule tweak for Pokemon and wildlife and horse breed makes sense - Despite the Pokemon in the anime and games looking pretty much 100% identical with few exceptions, Pokemon OCs are going to run a bit different in that they'll do what the wildlife and horse breed edition Soquili will do - They'll have individual tweaks to make them look different. I can't see a cosplay of a specific character doing that... With the incredibly small exception of Link, Zelda, Ganon, and Vaati and a couple other repeat LoZ characters, as their individual looks change from game to game they're in. Would I personally be okay with seeing five different Link Soquili? Yes, because literally every Link in EVERY LoZ game is different in looks, sometimes quite drastically(Wind Waker vs. Twilight Princess).
So, to come back to it... No, I'm not for opening up cosplays for more than one, beyond what it is now.
That all said, the Pokemon/Wild Life/Horse Breed thing, does that apply to Digimon, too...? Since there's multiple Agumon etc. in the Digimon world, with each having its own personality...
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