[Q/S] Breeding Format 2 slot vs 5 slot feedback

[Laroawan]

I have been discussing the new 5 slot breeding style in the main thread and wanted to create a spot for both customers and staff to discuss breeding formats.

I have been told that the 5 slot breeding style is just in the trial phase, and this style of breeding is a personal choice for colorists so staff may go back to the regular 2 slot breedings when they want to. I am hoping that some discussion might help shine a light on the pros and cons of each style, let customers give their feedback, and may help the staff with planning future breedings.

There is also some confusion about the new/temporary LL rules for 5 slot breedings where only one couple may be counted for a low luck attempt. Maybe we can help clear that up here as well.
Note: The one couple LL rule is a personal choice for each colorist and may or may not be continued in future breedings.

Here are my thoughts on 5 slots breedings:
Pros: -Lets people enter couples that might be further down their list, and gives people a shot at entering new couples
-May actually help newbies get more breedings because people are more willing to pair up new couples even though their regular 2 slots are full
-Allows colorists to have more CC freedom so they can work on a couple that suits what they want to work on.
Cons: -Newbies and people with fewer horses or couples can be at a disadvantage when it comes to having more chances due to other people entering your couples
-It may be harder for your priority couples to get chosen, especially if they are more difficult edits, colorists might be drawn to choosing a simpler couple
-Only one couple gets counted for LL, when previously it was two couples

I personally think both formats have their merits and would like to see some of each in the future.

What do you think?  

[Ryuukishin]

To clear up some points:
- The 5-slot breeding style is a personal choice, just like hosting themed breedings or LL-only slots. As it stands right now, it is not a permanent change. Two-pairs-per-person is still the norm.
- Having only one couple counted for LL is also a personal choice. It applies to Mind's August 2014 breedings only, though other colorists may choose to implement it in their own slots (if they open breedings that allow five pairs per person). At the moment, there is no shop-wide change.
- If anyone has a priority couple, they can choose to enter that couple only. If they're rolled, then there's no other couple the colorist can select. Having five pairs is the max, not the requirement.  

[Laroawan]

Thanks for clearing that up Ryuu.

It's a good point about not having to enter 5 couples if you want to prioritize. I think some people, myself included, might feel some social pressure to enter as many couples as possible so as not to let down any partners you are entering with. Of course, that is a personal choice also.

I added in some of your clarifications to the first post so they aren't missed.  

[one over three]

I'm pretty neutral on this matter at the moment, but something else I've noticed is that you can get more than two tagged for LL through these slots.

I'm tagging Genevive x Mencari for my LL pair.
Kait is tagging Mahdi x Auster, as this is the only pair she's trying for LL with.
My sister, Swarley, is only entering one pair, Kaiko x Brighton, so she also has this pair tagged LL.

Since Mencari, Mahdi, and Kaiko are all my ponies I'm getting three couples another entry on their respective low luck lists. Since this favours people with more couples to enter and more people entering for their couples, I'd list this as a con.

 

[Laroawan]

I hadn't even thought of that factor 1/3, thanks for pointing that out.  

[Revolutionary Roniel]

I'm not nearly so fond of the 5 couple slots as the 2, because the 5 couple slots are massively weighted in favor of those with many couples, which is generally those with many soquili.

If someone has 25 soquili pairings... they're going to be spread out in many many more posts than someone who just has 3, so they have a lot more chance at getting picked.

I think that it's fine every once in a while as a novelty, but that it's not too fair to those with fewer soquili if we as the shop make a habit out of it...  

[In Good Faith]

I wish there was a way to balance letting couples down the list to enter and preventing the unfair advantage that people with a million pets have. o3o

Perhaps permanently expanding the list to 5 slots, but preventing someone from having more than 5 pets entered at one time? It seems like a decent compromise.  

[Kamiki]

GrnGriff

My favorite part about the 5 slot breedings is that you can be involved in more than 5 couples. Less stress about getting with owners and telling people they can/can't enter.

Could we also do that with the 2 slot breedings? Each person can only enter 2? Sure, those with lots of pairs would still have an advantage and could potentially have 20 pairs entered, but at 2 per person I don't think it would be as heavily weighted as 5 slots.

Everyone could just post their own personal priority pairs.

Personally I would love this.

I've been fond of the "ticket" system for a while. The idea that everyone gets a ticket, and if you win then you say what couple you want done.

But this would be a good compromise in my opinion.

Honestly, though, I really don't like the traditional breeding set up. I have a lot of couples, and it allows me to still RP and make more.

Maybe as a compromise, I have few suggestions. Keep the 5-couple ticket as is but:

• LowLuck is by person and not by couple (aka, you enter 20 breedings without winning as opposed to a couple 20 times)
  
• Someone can only win 1 breeding per month
  - this could balance the whole "if you have more couples you have more chance of winning" argument - because yes while its true you could have a better chance at winning, if you could only get one breeding a month people may avoid pairing with people who just have TONS and TONS of couples, because the chance of THAT couple winning may drop.

 

[Sabin Duvert]

Yeah, I really like these suggestions - especially the fact that the breedings done by person entering and not total couples entered means this is a way we COULD switch to one breeding per person per month.

And I also really like Low Luck done by person (entering) as opposed to the couple. And getting a breeding through any method would reset attempts to 0. So if I won a breeding recently, then none of the couples I post would be considered. But if someone I'm paired with hasn't won a breeding in X attempts, and they enter as well, then their ticket is considered LL - and the colorist if they roll them could choose any of their couples.  

[Laroawan]

Really interesting suggestions everyone.

One possible issue with LL by person would be if you are entering a couple 20+ times but then when you enter for a LL breeding slot you go for a different couple, your partner might feel a bit jilted if you switch things up at the last second. This is with the old 2 slot system in mind anyway, where often only one person is in charge of entering the couple each time.

One breeding per month seems fair especially with the number of people entering, would be nice to spread the breeding love around even more. This works best with the 5 slots because even if one or two of your partners wins you still have other couples for a colorist to choose from if you get rolled.  

[Jackariah Beckett]

I really enjoy the 'ticket' idea breedings<3.


It would be interesting if breedings opened where a person just enters with a ticket without posting any pairs. Than the people who win, just post their favorite pair they want the colorist to do. The pro of this would be you get to either choose your favorite pair, or the pair you think that certain colorist might be best at.

Con that I can see is that colorists wouldn't be able to pick CC pairs at all.


So, because the 5 pairs feels more like a 'ticket' breeding to me, I rather enjoy the idea =). I just have to get used to the one LL couple rule since I have gotten so used to having 2. And at this point, LL doesn't really seem to play a factor at the moment. So, I don't feel like I am truly losing much till colorists start to do LL again<3. And by that time I might be used to the 1 LL rule lol.  

[Pollack]

I honestly don't mind the five slot, but I don't mind the two slot either. What I would suggest is allowing two couples per five slot to be counted for LL. Why? Simply because how few breedings there are now a days. If these five slots became the norm you would basically have to ignore any other couple you have to count your LL meter on. Just seems a little silly in a shop this big.  

[Gl!tch~]

The first time five pair slots came about, I was super into the idea. More pairs! Don't have to ask around for permission to post because I won't be stepping on any toes!
But also I noticed that loopholes were quickly kind of abused? People made sure to get as many pairs as possible PERIOD for better chances at getting babies. That was literally all that mattered.
Kind of like the issue with wishing stars where winning a basket was more important than connections between couples. I know, I know, it's not the same thing. Of course it isn't. But there is a similar vibe to me.
Granted, flings are common in breedings. Flings with no prior RP or much backplotting. And that's cool. One night stands happen.
But last time it went to an extreme, and the practice could very easily be rewarded. Every single time if this type of slots stick.

Some people are ALWAYS going to win if we keep the five slot thing as it is. There are plenty of people in the shop with enough ponies and influence to extend into many others' slots because people will have slots to fill and so the latter group of people could and have taken up those extra spaces for way more chances. If you want babies bad enough, and you have the means to get it, you'll get those babies. It doesn't seem fair to me because those who don't do this are left high and dry. You won't be rewarded for not pimping singles to get as many opportunities as you can. That just seems...wrong, to me. That this can quickly turn into a contest for getting baskets straight-up and that's what easily could matter more than plots or anything else.

While two-slot was limiting, both for users and colorists, it was much more fair.

I DID like the five slots at first, as I said, and I feel like we could make it work if users were limited much like the two slots were.
And it could be a middle ground? Between how tight two pairs are and five slot free-for-all?
Though I'm not sure if LL would be allowed to count for all or should be placed on one, because again, the amount of LL could quickly be over-saturated, which kind of hurts the purpose of it.

This is a VERY slippery slope, and I don't want to seem bitter. I'm not. You win some, you lose some. I've won breedings before. But at the same time, I don't want to enable the concept that those who have more will continue to get more because they just plain can and that's all that matters?

I hope this doesn't sound mean or anything. 8X I'm just writing in College Paper Mode, so I apologize if I sound like a cold robot or something. :'D


ALSO about the one-pair ticket idea!
I feel like that just wouldn't work? I understand the reasoning behind it, but there are so many logistical problems with it.
One, having two pairs as it's been not only gives more pairs more opportunities to get a breeding, and it gives colorists SOME choice over what they have to do. As an ex-colorist myself, I would have LOVED being able to have SOME control over breedings outside of CC slots and hoping couples I wasn't enthusiastic about working with if rolled just plain weren't (and if they were, I'd just have to suck it up. But sometimes it did feel kind of stifling)

Beyond that, imagine the drama that could come from the userbase if you got one ticket then picked your pair afterwards. It's nice and powerful in theory, but some could get upset if you don't pick the pair you have with them, or there could be pressure, outright guilt-trips, etc etc
It sounds like I'm assuming the worst, but you just never know! While the Soquili userbase has always been great to me, it's just too big to assume that it's always peachy-keen behind closed doors, especially if we were to implement a system like this.

PS- Laro you bring up a really good point about user v. couples being used for LL!  

[Phail Ninja]

The problem with being allowed to win a single breeding is as follows:

Say Person A has only one couple, and it's with Person B.

Person B has a couple with Person A AND with Person C.

Person C has a couple with Person B only.

If you roll person C, person A can no longer get a breeding (because person B has got a breeding via person C) because they only have a single couple - which seems a bit unfair.

I know this can happen anyway with a two-breeding-per-month cap (I think?), but it's far less likely to happen.






As for the whole LL being per person instead of per couple, the idea has been suggested A LOT and has always been shot down. Because it just isn't fair. You enter one couple for ages, and suddenly get a new shiny couple. So you enter them into the LL slots you earned off your other couple. It upsets the other owner, causes tension, could even lead to lifematings getting broken off because of strife between the owners. I know this won't always happen, some people will be cool with it. But it does cause issues.

Another thing is, say one owner has LL status but their partner just got a breeding. And then you win a LL breeding slot with that owner. Suddenly, the owner who had just won a breeding is getting an unfair advantage by being able to enter their couple into LL slots when they themselves aren't LL.