doll cult

[lady suicune]

ball jointed dolls  

[Nenanah]

I don't really think that this is a cult.

It's just a fashion trend.
I actually quite like some of the makeup tutorials and dresses that they wear.  

[musasgal]

Nenanah

I don't really think that this is a cult.

It's just a fashion trend.
I actually quite like some of the makeup tutorials and dresses that they wear.

I agree to an extent, but it's also tradition as well in some cases, as the video states that the female gets her first set of dolls when she is born by her grandparents as tradition.


The Burning festival however has vale in the Japanese Culture and why they have a special set to put up, then put down on the 4th March. It's complicated to explain, but if you search Hinamatsuri or something on the lines of Japanese Dolls Festival, I'm sure you can find info yourself.

But here is a question for you. When can you draw the line when doll collecting turns from a traditional part of Japanese life and culture to becoming a cult?

Also, as a general question. Can collecting any kind of doll/blind bag/blind box/pop vinyl turn from a harmless hobby to an a cult?  

[lady suicune]

musasgal

Nenanah

I don't really think that this is a cult.

It's just a fashion trend.
I actually quite like some of the makeup tutorials and dresses that they wear.

I agree to an extent, but it's also tradition as well in some cases, as the video states that the female gets her first set of dolls when she is born by her grandparents as tradition.


The Burning festival however has vale in the Japanese Culture and why they have a special set to put up, then put down on the 4th March. It's complicated to explain, but if you search Hinamatsuri or something on the lines of Japanese Dolls Festival, I'm sure you can find info yourself.

But here is a question for you. When can you draw the line when doll collecting turns from a traditional part of Japanese life and culture to becoming a cult?

Also, as a general question. Can collecting any kind of doll/blind bag/blind box/pop vinyl turn from a harmless hobby to an a cult?

If you watched the whole video the guy said it might be a cult. Some people worship the dolls. Not all collectors are into worshiping dolls.  

[real eyes realize]

Speaking of, I have an uncle whose idols are literally dolls and he has a special outfit for them on certain occasions (I saw them in a box; I'm not sure what that special occasion is). Thing is, to him, it's actually a god not just a doll. sigh~ If anyone cares to, please pray for my uncle, to repent of his idolatry. His name is Luna.

Back on topic: by the time I finished watching the video, I don't know whether to think of all of them as actually worshiping the doll as a god. The way some of them view the doll (as a form of expression of their true self, the doll becoming whatever you're feeling at the moment) is not that different from how some people view their online avatars (whatever online community they belong to). So, it's like an avatar that they carry around with them in real life, lol. (Though if I heard correctly, some view it as a replacement for kids since they can't have any? So, we have lonely eunuchs/impotent people in the mix). Others just don't know when to say, "no" when it comes to shopping—perhaps a manifestation of greed, covetousness, worship of mammon... for some, maybe the pride of life (love of prestige/status, since they're expensive).

That said, however, some are taking it to a religious level, with an emphasis that the doll is your born-again self. Instead of them allowing the Holy Spirit to change any of their inward character, they're worrying about dressing up the exterior. It's an interesting manifestation of idolatry, in all the cases presented here, but idolatry nonetheless. When anything becomes an obsession, and that "anything" isn't God, it's idolatry—doesn't matter if it's another person, a statue, money, a doll. But no surprise here: dolls/doll-making have had spiritual significance for ages.

Quote:

Dolls have traditionally been used in magic and religious rituals throughout the world, and traditional dolls made of materials like clay and wood are found in the Americas, Asia, Africa and Europe.

[...]

Traditional dolls are sometimes used as children's playthings, but they may also have spiritual, magical and ritual value. There is no defined line between spiritual dolls and toys. In some cultures dolls that had been used in rituals were given to children. They were also used in children's education and as carriers of cultural heritage. In other cultures dolls were considered too laden with magical powers to allow children to play with them.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doll#Early_history_and_traditional_dolls

That birthing ceremony though... lol. I guess, in spirit, it's no different than people creating Sims and avatars on MMO's, and the character creation screen makes fireworks and special effects (short ceremony) as opposed to what I just saw in the video which is a bit drawn out. I still found it creepy though. Depending on how you define "cult", it could be considered one. But it's not a Christian cult. However, this subforum is not solely for talking about Christian cults (if I'm not mistaken). So it is appropriate.  

[Nenanah]

I cant watch videos well on my computer so I didn't watch it.
I figured you were talking about those "living dolls" like Valeria Lukanova (sp?) the ones who are in it just for fashions sake.  

[musasgal]

Lady Magmar

musasgal

Nenanah

I don't really think that this is a cult.

It's just a fashion trend.
I actually quite like some of the makeup tutorials and dresses that they wear.

I agree to an extent, but it's also tradition as well in some cases, as the video states that the female gets her first set of dolls when she is born by her grandparents as tradition.


The Burning festival however has vale in the Japanese Culture and why they have a special set to put up, then put down on the 4th March. It's complicated to explain, but if you search Hinamatsuri or something on the lines of Japanese Dolls Festival, I'm sure you can find info yourself.

But here is a question for you. When can you draw the line when doll collecting turns from a traditional part of Japanese life and culture to becoming a cult?

Also, as a general question. Can collecting any kind of doll/blind bag/blind box/pop vinyl turn from a harmless hobby to an a cult?

If you watched the whole video the guy said it might be a cult. Some people worship the dolls. Not all collectors are into worshiping dolls.

You still haven't answered my question though. When can you draw the line from collecting turns into a cult?

@Real: I was thinking on the lines of idolity too, and how the Burning Cermony is like letting your old self die and living a new life. Its freaky in a way, but in saying that's it's the Japanese Culture and we have to respect that, which does bring to this:

Quote:

That said, however, some are taking it to a religious level, with an emphasis that the doll is your born-again self. Instead of them allowing the Holy Spirit to change any of their inward character, they're worrying about dressing up the exterior. It's an interesting manifestation of idolatry, in all the cases presented here, but idolatry nonetheless. When anything becomes an obsession, and that "anything" isn't God, it's idolatry—doesn't matter if it's another person, a statue, money, a doll. But no surprise here: dolls/doll-making have had spiritual significance for ages.

What do you mean by this? This got me stumped.  

[real eyes realize]

musasgal

Lady Magmar

musasgal

Nenanah

I don't really think that this is a cult.

It's just a fashion trend.
I actually quite like some of the makeup tutorials and dresses that they wear.

I agree to an extent, but it's also tradition as well in some cases, as the video states that the female gets her first set of dolls when she is born by her grandparents as tradition.


The Burning festival however has vale in the Japanese Culture and why they have a special set to put up, then put down on the 4th March. It's complicated to explain, but if you search Hinamatsuri or something on the lines of Japanese Dolls Festival, I'm sure you can find info yourself.

But here is a question for you. When can you draw the line when doll collecting turns from a traditional part of Japanese life and culture to becoming a cult?

Also, as a general question. Can collecting any kind of doll/blind bag/blind box/pop vinyl turn from a harmless hobby to an a cult?

If you watched the whole video the guy said it might be a cult. Some people worship the dolls. Not all collectors are into worshiping dolls.

You still haven't answered my question though. When can you draw the line from collecting turns into a cult?

@Real: I was thinking on the lines of idolity too, and how the Burning Cermony is like letting your old self die and living a new life. Its freaky in a way, but in saying that's it's the Japanese Culture and we have to respect that, which does bring to this:

Quote:

That said, however, some are taking it to a religious level, with an emphasis that the doll is your born-again self. Instead of them allowing the Holy Spirit to change any of their inward character, they're worrying about dressing up the exterior. It's an interesting manifestation of idolatry, in all the cases presented here, but idolatry nonetheless. When anything becomes an obsession, and that "anything" isn't God, it's idolatry—doesn't matter if it's another person, a statue, money, a doll. But no surprise here: dolls/doll-making have had spiritual significance for ages.

What do you mean by this? This got me stumped.

Well, I addressed a lot here; I'll elaborate on everything then—and add scripture.

First, I'm saying that, instead of actually becoming born-again—that is, becoming a new creature in Christ, not driven by the lusts of flesh but by the Spirit, which moves you to obey God's law—they're fixated on dressing up a doll instead. Dressing up a doll does not make you born-again/a new person, does not give you a new heart with new desires contrary to those of the flesh, in accord with God's. Reading the Word, believing Jesus, becoming born-again through the Spirit is what makes you born-again, truly.

Titus 3:5-6 (NIV)

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,


Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)

7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.


Galatians 5:16-17 (NIV)

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[a] you want.

Footnotes:

a. Galatians 5:17 Or you do not do what


Ezekiel 36:25-27 (NIV)

25 I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

An idol can be anything that you allow to guide your decisions, instead of allowing God's words/commands to be that guide. God, His commands, His Words determines how I use the time He gave me, the money He gave me, and the words He's given me. His commands put a filter on the ideas I share with others and the advice I give them. His Word controls my wallet and my clock, what I bring into my home and what I keep out.

The things that obsess us, more likely than not, have us spending generous amounts of our time, money, affection towards it—things that we should be investing into God instead: with all the resources we have at our disposal (money, time, words, etc), we should be putting Him on display in our lives (not some doll). God should be evident in the way we think, how we act, dress, eat, interact, what we speak and how we say it, what we put on display in our homes and how we spend our time. We should be furthering his cause with our money; the best of our time and the first of our money goes to Him and His purposes. We should not be putting up a doll on display with the same kind of fervor. Spending all (or generous amounts) of our time, efforts, money and affections on a doll (or multiple) makes the doll an idol. These people have become slaves to the doll, not to God.

2 Peter 2:19 (NIV)

19 They promise them freedom, while they themselves are slaves of depravity—for “people are slaves to whatever has mastered them.”


Galatians 4:8 (NIV)

8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.


Romans 6:22 (NIV)

22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life.


Romans 6:6-7 (NIV)

6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— 7 because anyone who has died has been set free from sin.

Footnotes:

a. Romans 6:6 Or be rendered powerless


Romans 6:18 (NIV)

18 You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

Are we slaves to righteousness and slaves to God? Or are we slaves to sin and to the things of this world/creation? How we spend our money and time is a clear indicator of who we worship: the Holy God of Israel? or an idol/a creation that replaces God's lordship role over our life?

That said, I don't think the human behavior to "collect" things, specifically to please self and merely hoard, is godly at all. Natural? Sure, it is human nature. But we must be born-again, receive a new nature contrary to the fleshly one we were born with. Society claims it's normal and right to collect, but God says not to store up for yourself treasures on earth but in heaven where moths can't destroy.

Matthew 6:19-20(NIV)

19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.

God commands to give. We're not commanded to selfishly hoard things that please our senses. The world would have us collect and hoard to please self.

Luke 12:15 (NIV)

15 Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.”


Luke 12:33 (NIV)

33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.


Deuteronomy 15:10 (NIV)

10 Give generously to them and do so without a grudging heart; then because of this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in everything you put your hand to.


1 John 2:15(NIV)

15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them.

Footnotes:

a. 1 John 2:15 Or world, the Father’s love

Hoarding behavior is not Christ-like. It is greedy. It is following the lusts of the eyes, instead of following the written commands of God/Jesus.

Furthermore, we don't HAVE to respect Japanese Culture if their traditions leave people's souls in an unsaved state. If I had to choose between "respecting an earthly tradition" versus "saving someone's soul for eternity", I'm going with the latter, even if by telling the truth they feel offended that I view their tradition as worthless. If these people truly think they're genuinely becoming a different person from the inside out through dolls, they're mistaken. And we do not have to speak about their tradition as if it's precious when it's not and God's Word says it's not. To "respect" the tradition is to admit it has value. It doesn't. If it doesn't save you, it is worthless.

Acts 14:1 (NIV)

15 “Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them.

Anyone who truly knows Christ and loves God with their whole heart, mind and strength, would not have an out of control obsession/fervor towards anything but God.  

[setsuna_PT]

in japan the main religion is shinto, in shinto they believe in power in nature, even a head of a fish is worth putting faith into.. we need to thank the Lord for each soul that decide to meet Him and accept Him over there