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 Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:04 pm
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:04 am
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apiyo - Are my fears of their possible divorce launching me into poverty founded? I have a penchant for getting freaked out about major life decisions/changes. - Should we rewrite the partnership agreement in anyway that could protect the business and our partnership and prevent us from being forced to make him a business partner? -Is there a way I can protect my portion of assets or business from their potential divorce a la Swiss bank account? -WHO can I even talk to about this stuff? I'd draft paper work myself but I am definitely not a lawyer. I'd force my sister to serve up a prenup but you can't make people do stuff like that. -Does all this make me a horrible faithless person?
Hello. ^_^
To answer your last question first, it doesn't make you a "horrible faithless person" in the sense that I think you mean. However, I can't say that you have the right mindset. Let's try and help get you back on track, shall we? 3nodding
Now, I'm not a businessman, nor have I studied law in any manner of real depth, so I cannot give you legal or business advice. What I can try to provide you with is biblical counseling. You mentioned that you were a "broke loser" for most of your life. What do you mean by that? Can you talk about that a little bit? Would you say that your family is, in general, poor?
And if you would, allow me to ask you some preliminary questions.
Do you believe that you do well in fearing the unknown future? It is wise to plan for the future, but you seem to be obsessing over this matter. You mentioned that the issue is "looming" in your brain.
Do you think it is helpful to prepare for "the worst case scenario"?
Do you think it is Biblical to prepare for the possibility of your sister and her fiance getting a divorce in the future? What kind of effect do you think that mindset, which is very prevalent in America, has on the institution of marriage?
You mention that marriage isn't worth the hassle. One of the wisest men to ever live, Solomon, had something to say about marriage. Proverbs 18:22 reads, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD."
Interestingly enough, marriage is one of the most important institutions God created. Adam and Eve were married. God made Eve for Adam, specifically as a helper. He saw that it was "not good that the man should be alone" (Gen. 2:18 ) and made Eve. Man and woman, despite sin, actually work really well together. They complement one another. The marriage institution is so important to God that the only excuse for divorce is in the case of adultery, and even that is only a concession because people have hard hearts (Matt. 19). God would rather divorce never happen.
And finally, there is the matter of the fact that our relationship with God is described in marital terms. Interestingly enough, I learned from a book, Contours of Pauline Theology, that Christ's purchasing of the Church is akin to a bridegroom paying the dowry for his bride. This is not localized to the New Testament, either. Marital descriptions between God's people and God Himself are used in the Old Testament as well.
In light of these matters, while brief, how would you say your view of marriage lines up with the Biblical view? Is it really "not worth the hassle"?
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:14 pm
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Scarlet_Teardrops
Now, I'm not a businessman, nor have I studied law in any manner of real depth, so I cannot give you legal or business advice. What I can try to provide you with is biblical counseling. You mentioned that you were a "broke loser" for most of your life. What do you mean by that? Can you talk about that a little bit? Would you say that your family is, in general, poor?
Thanks for answering. What I mean is for most of my life I haven't had my own money. I've been applying for jobs since I was 14 but I can’t seem to buy a job most of the time. I’ve been laid off multiple times, one was a border-line scam, and one was a very low wage on campus job. The only jobs I haven’t applied for are immoral ones like sex and drug related, and ones I don’t qualify by lack of education, like a doctor or engineer. Not having money is awful and I don't want to beat off my parents. My family isn't super poor, but we aren't well-to do. By the time my twin and I were born they were pretty well established. The only hiccup was when we were temporarily homeless after a natural disaster.
Scarlet_Teardrops Do you believe that you do well in fearing the unknown future? It is wise to plan for the future, but you seem to be obsessing over this matter. You mentioned that the issue is "looming" in your brain.
Most of the time I go about my routine and I’m fine but occasionally it bothers me. I try not to think about it too much and work on the tasks at hands or I’ll get overwhelmed. My parent’s nagging doesn't help, I can nag myself just fine. The reason this problem bothers me is because I don't mind failing as much if I did it to myself or it was something unavoidable event like a death or natural disaster or something. The thought that all our work would be ruined because of something stupid, evil, and avoidable (divorce) is very face palm-y.
Scarlet_Teardrops Do you think it is helpful to prepare for "the worst case scenario"?
To the best of your ability you should, as long as it doesn’t interfere with current needs.
Scarlet_Teardrops
Do you think it is Biblical to prepare for the possibility of your sister and her fiance getting a divorce in the future? What kind of effect do you think that mindset, which is very prevalent in America, has on the institution of marriage?
That's why I feel terrible about thinking like this and don't want to bring it up to her. I don't want her to bring it up to her fiancé either because it sets a bad tone for their marriage.
Scarlet_Teardrops You mention that marriage isn't worth the hassle. One of the wisest men to ever live, Solomon, had something to say about marriage. Proverbs 18:22 reads, "He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD."
Interestingly enough, marriage is one of the most important institutions God created. Adam and Eve were married. God made Eve for Adam, specifically as a helper. He saw that it was "not good that the man should be alone" (Gen. 2:18 ) and made Eve. Man and woman, despite sin, actually work really well together. They complement one another. The marriage institution is so important to God that the only excuse for divorce is in the case of adultery, and even that is only a concession because people have hard hearts (Matt. 19). God would rather divorce never happen.
And finally, there is the matter of the fact that our relationship with God is described in marital terms. Interestingly enough, I learned from a book, Contours of Pauline Theology, that Christ's purchasing of the Church is akin to a bridegroom paying the dowry for his bride. This is not localized to the New Testament, either. Marital descriptions between God's people and God Himself are used in the Old Testament as well.
In light of these matters, while brief, how would you say your view of marriage lines up with the Biblical view? Is it really "not worth the hassle"?
My view of marriage is that while it’s not easy it should be do-able. God wouldn’t have created marriage if it were some unsolvable enigma where you can’t possibly finish it out. Which society seems to think it is. Mostly my lack of desire to get married comes from low expectations of people in general. I could write out a list if you want a small wall of text. But nope, in light of the fact I am currently not married anyway, it's not. Also my opinion does not extend to married people. In that case, they wanted they just have to deal with it if they have complaints. |
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Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:39 pm
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Scarlet_Teardrops In light of these matters, while brief, how would you say your view of marriage lines up with the Biblical view? Is it really "not worth the hassle"?
There are bible verses that support, "it's not worth the hassle" (not a denigration of marriage by any means):
1 Corinthians 7:26-28 (NIV)
26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
Sister apiyo, I would suggest three things:
1. Prayer
A few things to pray for:
Pray that our Heavenly Father allow whatever would bring him the most glory, so more people can be saved and learn to trust in God. If it's to let your business succeed, then for it to succeed, and prevent your sister's relationship from affecting the business negatively, but that the marriage bring mutual blessing to all involved in the situation, and all who will be affected by it (even strangers).
Pray that if their relationship will glorify God, that he bless their relationship, and that their marriage lasts til death do them part, as that is what pleases our Heavenly Father—committed to the end.
Pray that their marriage be strong, that they be people of their words who keep their promises/vows to each other and their words to everyone else in their lives.
Pray for the best beforehand.
When something is looming over your head, to the point that you're feeling anxious and worried, then saturate it in prayer in advance and continue to pray over it.
Philippians 4:6-7 (NIV)
6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
1 Peter 5:7 (NIV)
7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
Luke 18:1 (NIV)
18 Then Jesus told his disciples a parable to show them that they should always pray and not give up.
Trust that he is in control of the situation, invoke him into it. Give him thanks for however it turns out, knowing he will allow to happen what is most beneficial to you, and others, even strangers.
2. Obedience
Seek to do things his way, based on his commands, in the first place, to avoid failure.
Joshua 1:8 (NIV)
8 Keep this Book of the Law always on your lips; meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do everything written in it. Then you will be prosperous and successful.
1 Kings 2:3 (NIV)
3 and observe what the Lord your God requires: Walk in obedience to him, and keep his decrees and commands, his laws and regulations, as written in the Law of Moses. Do this so that you may prosper in all you do and wherever you go
Matthew 6:31-33 (NIV)
31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.
Proverbs 16:3-4 (NIV)
3 Commit to the Lord whatever you do,
and he will establish your plans.
4 The Lord works out everything to its proper end—
even the wicked for a day of disaster.
Submit your business to his commands. There have been instances in the bible where YHWH takes away what he blessed his people with if they don't conduct their daily living according to his ways, but turn away from him and what he says.
Jeremiah 8:13 (NIV)
13 “‘I will take away their harvest,
declares the Lord.
There will be no grapes on the vine.
There will be no figs on the tree,
and their leaves will wither.
What I have given them
will be taken from them.[a]’”
Footnotes:
a. Jeremiah 8:13 The meaning of the Hebrew for this sentence is uncertain.
Jeremiah 17:4-6 (NIV)
4 Through your own fault you will lose
the inheritance I gave you.
I will enslave you to your enemies
in a land you do not know,
for you have kindled my anger,
and it will burn forever.”
5 This is what the Lord says:
“Cursed is the one who trusts in man,
who draws strength from mere flesh
and whose heart turns away from the Lord.
6 That person will be like a bush in the wastelands;
they will not see prosperity when it comes.
They will dwell in the parched places of the desert,
in a salt land where no one lives.
A little bit a lot of testimony: I've seen this happen to my families' lives over and over again—from the Christians who don't believe his commands should be kept. He blesses them with a house, or health, in response to their prayer, then they start speaking against his commands, living against his commands, acting corruptly, verbally abusing each other, behaving selfishly to get ahead even if it means inconveniencing other family members—and boom, the landlord randomly, out of the blue, wants his house back because he's no longer interested in leasing it, gives them a few months notice to leave and accommodate themselves elsewhere (and the times that they don't trust in God, when they pick a new house, that worsens their situation; they pick one out of their own choosing instead of consulting him or basing their decision on what he has already revealed to them: e.g. he tells them to wait, but they jump the gun and start renting a house right away); if not that, then they make some "silly" mistake that stops their payments from being recognized and coming through the bank (they get their money sent from their home country), or something else happens with their financial situation so that it's not running smoothly (though they've never lacked food or a roof over their heads, yet they're thrown into a tizzy and desperation because their monies are being threatened). That, or God kills one of them off after warning them time after time, repent of this, or else I'm sending that on you, no doctor will be able to heal you of this, only me, and on one condition: repent of all this idolatry that I'm seeing in your life, all that doesn't conform to what I said: I have seen my family exiled (scattered from their homes and each other), plagued with disease after running back to their paganism (whether outright Gentile superstition [like eating 12 grapes at midnight on New Year's eve, wishing on the grapes for good luck and prosperity in the new year], or paganism masquerading under YHWH's name) after being fully convinced that it was wrong to do. And I've seen God sending the sword/fighting/war amongst them (arguing over the tiniest of things), all because they reject his commands. They end up devouring each other. Or he brings people, the extended family, idolaters, which they married into, back into their lives to bring them problems. These are the Christians in my family that say, "that's Old Testament; it does not apply to me". It's applying all over the place, they just don't see it (because they reject it and refuse to read it).
And prior to my mom becoming a believer, she made a really bad, naive business deal, out of greed, and God took it ALL away because of it (though not immediately). God showed mercy, out of consideration that, after that point, we did become believers by the book and were seeking to please him. Also, she was a widow and I, technically, fatherless.
Deuteronomy 10:18 (NIV)
18 He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
She got remarried after a while—so financially we were fine by the time the inheritance was stolen from us (stolen by the guy she did business with back in her home country). God's hand was all over that situation, in terms of discipline and mercy, in more ways than one:
1) prior to getting remarried, we were living in a very large house, and paying the taxes on the property and all the utilities with the money generated from her business deal. She would not have been able to pay the bills on that house (which we owned by the way) upon getting the money stolen. So, what happens ahead of time, out of God's mercy? God makes sure that she gets remarried, the house gets sold, she moves in with her husband, all before that man stops cooperating and takes off with our money.
2) not only did God allow the money to be taken away as discipline/punishment (for not doing business with the right motives, legitimately, nor according to his commands), but also an act of unforeseen mercy—it's what would do most good for her marriage: had she owned her own house, and had the inheritance still been in her hands, she would've used that as a cop out to not deal with her husband whenever the slightest annoyance and disagreement arose (which she would resort to prior to selling the house), because she could just up and leave to the other house in place of talking it out or sticking it out. And in the back of her mind, she had this thought, "well: I could just divorce because I'm my own independent woman" (until I showed her 1 Corinthians 7 which says no, let the unbeliever leave, not you; and she married prior to becoming a believer in spirit and truth, and 1 Cor 7 suggests you stay in the situation you find yourself in when you were saved, he might convert). So, sometimes God takes wealth away not only because it was unrighteously earned, in ways not submitted to his commands, but because he sees it would bring detriment to the marriage dynamic, instead of keeping the couple together, dependent on each other.
That said, your sister marrying her husband makes them one. If you don't want her husband to be a part of the business, then your sister shouldn't be a part of your business. That's the only way you can avoid him, his input, his ideas from entering her head and affecting the business and making him feel like he's entitled to the money. There is no such thing as "your assets" and "my assets" in a Christian marriage. It's all shared. You become one in everything.
3. Assess What You're Trusting In
As a word of warning; make sure you're not confiding in the wealth itself as the source of your security (that's another reason my mom lost the inheritance). It's not the money who is keeping you alive and well.
Psalm 52:5-8 (NIV)
5 Surely God will bring you down to everlasting ruin:
He will snatch you up and pluck you from your tent;
he will uproot you from the land of the living.
6 The righteous will see and fear;
they will laugh at you, saying,
7 “Here now is the man
who did not make God his stronghold
but trusted in his great wealth
and grew strong by destroying others!”
8 But I am like an olive tree
flourishing in the house of God;
I trust in God’s unfailing love
for ever and ever.
Pray for discernment as well: that if he sees anything that needs to be eliminated or changed (in order to guard the well-being of both you and your sister's household), that he give you the discernment to accept what needs to be taken away (or changed), because he's taking it away (or changing it) so that it results in the most good in the long-run for both you and them—and God's own reputation too.
So, prayer to God, trusting in God, and obedience to God according to his word.
In these areas, yes, have more faith and trust in God. He's in control. emotion_yatta
And he doesn't necessarily have to make the business go wrong. Her union to her husband may be of blessing to the business as well, especially if they stay together for life.
A Few Verses about Finances
That said, there's nothing faithless about carefully considering what to do with your finances. You're not faithless for wanting to think ahead. There are a lot of verses in the bible that advise about the wise thing to do with our investments (just make sure that it's you having control over it, and not it having control over you—nor that it becomes more important than pursuing godliness):
Ecclesiastes 11:2 (NIV)
2 Invest in seven ventures, yes, in eight;
you do not know what disaster may come upon the land.
Ecclesiastes 11:6 (NIV)
6 Sow your seed in the morning,
and at evening let your hands not be idle,
for you do not know which will succeed,
whether this or that,
or whether both will do equally well.
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.
But also, don't be afraid if all your baskets brake or get stolen.
Philippians 4:11-13 (NIV)
11 I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12 I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13 I can do all this through him who gives me strength.
Psalm 73:25 (NIV)
25 Whom have I in heaven but you?
And earth has nothing I desire besides you.
Matthew 6:19-20 (NIV)
19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Luke 12:33 (NIV)
33 Sell your possessions and give to the poor. Provide purses for yourselves that will not wear out, a treasure in heaven that will never fail, where no thief comes near and no moth destroys.
Don't hold on so tightly to wealth, or to a slightly higher standard of living, as the thing you're living for. At that point you lose that generous heart, that generous attitude, that operates out of the knowledge that this life is fleeting, not permanent, and that God will always provide for your needs if you ask. What's important in this life is to guard the well-being of others, express care to others, think about their needs more than your own, and to please our Heavenly Father, confide in him, interact with his creation the way he said to, wanting to live for the right motives: to bring him glory and help people come to know him / become sensible to him, and trust that his ways are best.
Psalm 67:7 (NIV)
7 May God bless us still,
so that all the ends of the earth will fear him.
Like I started out by saying: seek God's righteousness, do things according to his commands, and pray, trusting in His ability to care for you—all your needs will be provided for.
---
About the prenup
By asking for a prenup, and I think Brother Joshua was hitting on this with his reply, you'd be making her think ahead to divorce, as if it were an acceptable option, instead of encouraging her to stay faithful to her marriage til the end, no matter what (like Hosea and Gomer in the bible, even in the case of sexual immorality, he stayed loyal to her without divorcing). Working through their problems and saving the marriage is more important. A prenup is an expression of distrust between them right from the start. I don't think it would be healthy to their relationship to ask that of them. You're thinking more about keeping a business afloat than following God's will for marriage with that suggestion. And you won't die, not if you confide in what his word says.
Proverbs 10:3 (NIV)
3 The Lord does not let the righteous go hungry,
but he thwarts the craving of the wicked.
Psalm 37:25 (NIV)
25 I was young and now I am old,
yet I have never seen the righteous forsaken
or their children begging bread.
And if somehow your business does go south because of this, that should have been something you carefully considered before going into business with your sister (what happens if/when she gets married?)
Luke 14:28 (NIV)
28 “Suppose one of you wants to build a tower. Won’t you first sit down and estimate the cost to see if you have enough money to complete it?
Proverbs 31:16 (NIV)
16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
And if our Heavenly Father does allow the business to fail after you've been praying about it, trust that it's because he sees this will result in the most good. But the business might not fail. Again, set your heart on what would glorify God most, and allow him to decide.
A prenup is a worldly thing that's concerned about wealth in the world over God's will for marriage (that we should aim to keep the commitment for life, not allowing wiggle room to leave). I really think it's out of the question.
To summarize up to this point:
(1) Prayer. Talk it out with God, confide in him to provide for your needs, be satisfied/content whether you find yourself in want or in richness, and sincerely ask that he do what would bring about the most glory to His Name and recognition/acknowledgment of God and his ways.
(2) consider backup plans in case your business does fail, whether it's because of your sister's marriage or due to other unforeseen factors. He recommends investing in many things.
(3) And assess how God-honoring and true to the bible your business dealings (and daily living) have been.
A few commands that are easy to disregard:
- When NOT to do business.
Exodus 20:8-11 (NIV)
8 “Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your male or female servant, nor your animals, nor any foreigner residing in your towns. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Nehemiah 10:31 (NIV)
31 “When the neighboring peoples bring merchandise or grain to sell on the Sabbath, we will not buy from them on the Sabbath or on any holy day. Every seventh year we will forgo working the land and will cancel all debts.
- You must have fair prices (don't cheat people out of their money):
Deuteronomy 25:15 (NIV)
15 You must have accurate and honest weights and measures, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.
Proverbs 11:1 (NIV)
11 The Lord detests dishonest scales,
but accurate weights find favor with him.
- And of course, that the content of your images don't violate a command, betray the truth of scripture, or nourish sinful attitudes / thoughts in others to begin with. I destroyed a mermaid statue just a few days ago (lol edit: and with my mother's permission; it was ours) because I realized, in spirit, everything about it is contrary to YHWH's commands in Leviticus 19:19 (mixing mankind with animal kind, one kind with another).
Leviticus 19:19 (NIV)
19 “‘Keep my decrees.
“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.
“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.
“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.
A mermaid is half human + half fish.
So, make sure you're not glorifying myths or other gods with your art work as things to be valued. God won't bless that. Nor things masquerading in his name that betray his word.
That was supposed to be a summary and I started meditating again, lol.
Prayer, trust, obedience. Analyze what you've been doing, what you've been trusting in, invest in more than one venture, but turn to God with all heart, with all your trust, as the one who sustains you. Seek to glorify him, his commands, the truth in everything you do,
- Maria |
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Posted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:37 am
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In addition to the above, God placed some verses in my path today that could be of help to you.
- Obedience to his ways and prayer to God is how we prosper (in contrast to the wicked who don't do this):
Job 21:14-17 (NIV)
14 Yet they say to God, ‘Leave us alone!
We have no desire to know your ways.
15 Who is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
What would we gain by praying to him?’
16 But their prosperity is not in their own hands,
so I stand aloof from the plans of the wicked.
17 “Yet how often is the lamp of the wicked snuffed out?
How often does calamity come upon them,
the fate God allots in his anger?
- You can suffer because of sin despite not recognizing it as sin in the moment (or worse, refusing to recognize it as sin); ignorance doesn't save:
Proverbs 4:19 (NIV)
19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.
Hosea 4:6 (NIV)
6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.
“Because you have rejected knowledge,
I also reject you as my priests;
because you have ignored the law of your God,
I also will ignore your children.
Zephaniah 3:5 (NIV)
5 The Lord within her is righteous;
he does no wrong.
Morning by morning he dispenses his justice,
and every new day he does not fail,
yet the unrighteous know no shame.
Luke 12:47-48 (NIV)
47 “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48 But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
May our Heavenly Father enlighten your path and give you great peace. heart
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 9:59 am
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cristobela There are bible verses that support, "it's not worth the hassle" (not a denigration of marriage by any means): 1 Corinthians 7:26-28 (NIV) 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.
Would you say, then, that it's "not worth the hassle"?
And if it's not a denigration of marriage, how would you explain "it's not worth the hassle"? Seems like a value judgment to me.
Keep in mind, Paul says, "because of the present crisis". The situation here is contextual, and does not in any way state that marriage, on the whole, is "not worth the hassle". My point is that a value judgment is being made on marriage as a whole, and I think it is an incorrect value judgment implied by "it's not worth the hassle".
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:20 am
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Well, you are not obligated to marry, nor are you in the wrong for not marrying. Just be wary of your heart when you make a value judgment, seemingly about marriage as a whole. Marriage is just as good a thing as celibacy, and both are blessings from God. It seemed to me that your remark about it not being "worth the hassle" was a value judgment upon the institution of marriage as a whole--which I think is incorrect. Perhaps for you, marriage is not the right course of action.
But in the context of what you were talking about, it seemed to me to be that you were referring to marriage itself, and not just for your own life.
Sister Cristobela hit on some very important things, including the idea of wealth itself as the source of your security. God is your source of security. Remember Jesus' teaching about worry (Matthew 6). Remember Philippians 4:6. God will care for you. When you begin looking for other sources of security, you've made those sources idols. Put your trust only in God. Idols can be tricky things. Our hearts are good at seeking after other gods and worshiping them even unbeknownst to us! But the Lord will reveal the idols in your heart.
Pray to the Lord and ask Him to reveal to you the idols that are in your heart.
God bless and keep you. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2015 12:52 pm
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apiyo Thanks a lot. I'm a lot more at ease now. I won't bother my sister with my foolishness.
Glad to be of help, in addition to what Brother Joshua provided as food for thought. 3nodding
Scarlet_Teardrops Would you say, then, that it's "not worth the hassle"?
And if it's not a denigration of marriage, how would you explain "it's not worth the hassle"? Seems like a value judgment to me.
Keep in mind, Paul says, "because of the present crisis". The situation here is contextual, and does not in any way state that marriage, on the whole, is "not worth the hassle". My point is that a value judgment is being made on marriage as a whole, and I think it is an incorrect value judgment implied by "it's not worth the hassle".
If a person is neither lonely nor burning with lust, then yes, "marriage is not worth the hassle" on the whole. It's not just in the verse I quoted but throughout the chapter:
1 Corinthians 7:1-2 (NIV)
7 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.” 2 But since sexual immorality is occurring, each man should have sexual relations with his own wife, and each woman with her own husband.
1 Corinthians 7:8-9 (NIV)
8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 7:8 Or widowers
Matthew 19:9-11 (NIV)
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”
11 Jesus replied, “Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given.
Everything is contextual. Even the verses about getting married in the first place. They are contextual. If someone has a problem (such as, "loneliness", "burning with lust"), and they can be faithful, then, yes, people should marry; it would do them good. However, if they are not lonely or not burning with lust or cannot be faithful, then people are better off if they avoid marriage—to avoid hurting themselves, their spouse, whoever they get involved with afterwards, and whatever children result out of the relation / come under their care. We need to choose wisely in this fallen world, depending on our needs. It's not "worth it" for everyone.
There's nothing inherently wrong about God's design, intent, and function for marriage (nor was it my impression from the opening post that Sister apiyo suggested that there was anything wrong with what God intended). The problem lies in corrupt/sinful people. They fail to give the marriage relationship its proper use / not recognizing what it is for. They fail to realize just how deeply they can hurt someone else, and the whole family unit, when they relate on such an intimate level, and do so wrongly/selfishly/sinfully. Those factors are what makes marriage "not worth the hassle".
For others, marriage is very useful in their walk with God while on this earth—particularly if they burn with lust or are lonely. Otherwise, it's not useful. That's why Paul keeps repeating, and I paraphrase, "yeah, avoid it if you can, but if you can't, that's okay, you're not in sin/transgressing the law; marriage is not sinful/a transgression of the law—though it does have its drawbacks in this world / these surrounding circumstances".
That said, looking at the big picture, ultimately, marriage is not something that is permanent; one's marriage is nullified upon death. You're not married forever. And marriage is not here to stay (aside from our "engagement/marriage" to Jesus: the consummation of that union, a.k.a. our coming together, later, is the point when we'll live together with Jesus forever).
Marriage not permanent:
Romans 7:2 (NIV)
2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him.
[note to anyone reading: this doesn't mean she can sin sexually from that point on, nor that if she remarried, then those laws don't apply to her, just that she's not recognized as belonging to anyone, she's no longer bound to her now-deceased husband and is free to remarry or stay single, whichever]
Marriage has no use post-resurrection:
Luke 20:34-36 (NIV)
34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.
What marriage prophesies: Marriage to Christ.
Ephesians 5:25-32 (NIV)
25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing[a] her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29 After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church— 30 for we are members of his body. 31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[b] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church.
Footnotes:
a. Ephesians 5:26 Or having cleansed
b. Ephesians 5:31 Gen. 2:24
1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NIV)
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
John 14:2-3 (NIV)
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.
And thus why we don't have sexual relations prior to marriage (not only to guard our physical and emotional well-being on earth [preventing problems such as unwanted pregnancies or bringing a child into this world and struggling to survive due to lack of financial stability, housing, and a committed relationship, and avoid hurt feelings due to half-hearted relationships]) but also to prophesy things about Jesus (we will live with him when he returns, when we unite, and it will be forever. At that point, earthly marriage will be pointless/useless, in both a physical and prophetic sense).
In short, I didn't see, in her opening post, Sister apiyo expressing that the very institution of marriage, in and of itself, has no value, but because of the state of this world and its corrupt/sinful people it is of no benefit to her, nor does it satisfy an emotional need in her. Had she been making a judgment about the very institution of marriage, in and of itself, then she wouldn't be excited for her sister getting married at all, nor speaking well of the couple getting pre-marital counseling—if the thought of marriage, in general, was abhorrent and unethical in her mind.
As always, our conversations provide fodder for deep meditation razz Much love, (edit: and much love to the Holy Spirit for inspiring such conversations)
your Sister in Christ,
Maria heart
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Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:46 am
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Reply
