The verse:
- He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
— 2 Corinthians 3:6 NIV
First, my comment(s): not many people make the connection of just HOW the Spirit gives life.
- Romans 8:13 (NIV)
13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.
God's definition of righteousness doesn't disappear, but the sinful desires in your mind, through the power of the Holy Spirit, are put to death and that carries out into the physical, putting to death the misdeeds of the body; ergo you don't die (or suffer punishment) because you stop stealing from others, murdering others, abusing the bodies with drugs, getting into gang fights, cutting yourself to get the attention of your god (Ba'al), etc. You live.
The Spirit should guide you to walk in accordance with God's Commands, which are contrary to the desires of the flesh
- Galatians 5:16-17 (NIV)
16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[a]you want.
Footnotes:
a. Galatians 5:17 Or you do not do what
Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)
7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
Unstable interpretations of 2nd Corinthians 3:6 say that the commands, as they are written in the Old Testament, don't protect, are irrelevant, and not to be applied, under the New Covenant, but really the emphasis is on the covenant that spares your life, not that those commands have stopped protecting you from physical things (because they do protect as long as we live on this corrupt earth in these earthen vessels).
- 1 Timothy 1:8-11 (NIV)
8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9 We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the gospel concerning the glory of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.
Acts 15:29 (NIV)
29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
Farewell.
On "for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life", God is going to get rid of sin one way or the other; sin will be eradicated from the community, whether that means...
1) a mere reading of the law, literally killing the unrepentant sinner (whose crime/sins calls for their death; not all sins were punishable by death but some were) whether through a nation who submits to his justice system or via a Gentile justice system or
2) having mercy and rehabilitating the person back to his image; inwardly killing the person, the mind which desires to sin (which desires to transgress God's commands), that is being crucified and made new and the person is left alive.
The new covenant saves our lives instead of putting us to death for our capital crimes, because Jesus took the death penalty in our place, so we wouldn't have to be stoned to death for comitting sins like adultery, idolatry and premeditated murder—which could not be atoned for by an animal sacrifice after acknowledging we were wrong and confessing our sin; such transgressions merit our death and could only be atoned for by our death.
- Numbers 35:33 (NIV)
33 “‘Do not pollute the land where you are. Bloodshed pollutes the land, and atonement cannot be made for the land on which blood has been shed, except by the blood of the one who shed it.
cristobela: A.K.A. NO FORGIVENESS, YOU MUST DIE
Deuteronomy 17:2-7 (NIV)
2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. 6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
cristobela: A.K.A. NO FORGIVENESS, THEY MUST DIE
Leviticus 20:10 (NIV)
10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.
cristobela: A.K.A. NO FORGIVENESS, THEY MUST DIE
The letter of the Old Covenant kills the person in a literal sense, while the Spirit, under the New Covenant, kills the person they are/use to be, in their inner-man, so that in the body they can continue living / not be put to death literally.
However, for those believers who don't repent from wickedness, don't stop interacting with creation in ways Our Heavenly Father prohibited, but instead want to continue in their sins, then instead of putting them to death, we're told to separate from them after following the process in Matthew 18:15-17, and then leave them to God, Satan, and/or the worldly government to deal with them.
- Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)
Dealing With Sin in the Church
15 “If your brother or sister[a] sins,[b] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 18:15 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35.
b. Matthew 18:15 Some manuscripts sins against you
c. Matthew 18:16 Deut. 19:15
1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (NIV)
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[a]
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 5:13 Deut. 13:5; 17:7; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21,24; 24:7
note: Paul is referring to Deuteronomy when saying this and despite what those verses say:
- Deuteronomy 13:5 (NIV)
5 That prophet or dreamer must be put to death for inciting rebellion against the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery. That prophet or dreamer tried to turn you from the way the Lord your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 17:7 (NIV)
7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 19:19 (NIV)
19 then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 21:21 (NIV)
21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.
Deuteronomy 22:21 (NIV)
21 she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done an outrageous thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 22:24 (NIV)
24 you shall take both of them to the gate of that town and stone them to death—the young woman because she was in a town and did not scream for help, and the man because he violated another man’s wife. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 24:7 (NIV)
7 If someone is caught kidnapping a fellow Israelite and treating or selling them as a slave, the kidnapper must die. You must purge the evil from among you.
...he's saying separate, instead of putting them to death (because Jesus died for those believers, so stoning them is out of the question; leave them in the hands of God and Satan, and worldly govt, to deal with; they want to act like the world, then they'll be treated like the world, and suffer at their hands and/or their justice system, and the ruler of their dark world). Thus,
1 Timothy 1:20 (NIV)
20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.
Romans 13:1-5 (NIV)
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.
That said, and in light of the "Shadowy Things" that ICR.org posted a couple of days ago (or yesterday), do not, as many do, fall into the over-watering of what Paul said, that the kingdom is not a matter of eating and drinking; in the kingdom of Jesus, sure, but as long as we live on this earth, in these bodies, drinking/eating prohibited things, like blood, is not conducive to our well-being. Whether from an animal or a human, the blood carries pathogens. It is not healthy to eat—literally—what God said we shouldn't eat (eating something else, like wine, and saying it is blood, does not harm you because it's not actually blood; eating an unclean animal in vision, in symbol, is not affecting your body literally the way actually eating an unclean animal does).
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Now for my question, and I'll use a hypothetical scenario:
In light of all these verses, if a Christian murders another person, do we rat them out to the police...? or just forgive them...? And I don't mean hating, getting angry, and wishing evil on another believer...
- Matthew 5:21-24 (NIV)
21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’ 22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 5:21 Exodus 20:13
b. Matthew 5:22 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verse 23.
c. Matthew 5:22 Some manuscripts brother or sister without cause
d. Matthew 5:22 An Aramaic term of contempt
1 John 3:15 (NIV)
15 Anyone who hates a brother or sister is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life residing in him.
...but actually killing another person. Because the way most people interpret these verses, they say no one, as a Christian, should get put to death anymore, whatsoever (as far as stoning people to death goes, but note that stoning to death for committing a sin worthy of death is the earthly justice system YHWH commanded, and it assumes the nation has adopted his justice system and has agreed to live by his laws; we can't stone people to death as capital punishment, according to our Heavenly Father's Law, if His Law is not the law of the land), but what if the Christian pre-meditated his crime, the murder, on Gentile territory/under Gentile govt?
I'm thinking that if the victim was not a Christian, thus the families are not even on the same wavelength of seeking forgiveness and having mercy when someone has wronged you, then the Christian should be handed over to the worldly authorities for the peace of mind of the unbeliever—and just leave it up to God to decide if he gets death or not. I don't think people should pray over that Christian, praying that he avoid punishment/death, considering...
- 1 John 5:16 (NIV)
16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
Because knowing that "sin" is the transgression of the law...
- 1 John 3:4 (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
...that means there is a sin (a transgression of the law) that leads to death and we shouldn't pray about those types of transgressions. Or is he referring to blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as the only one that leads to death...? though in light of what he wrote earlier, in 1st John 5:16, by saying "a sin that leads to death", I'm more inclined to say John was referring to not praying for that person if the sin merits death, according to God's Law, like what Paul wrote in Romans 1.
- Romans 1:32 (NIV)
32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.
Anyway, if both the victim and the perpetrator came from believing families, I can see forgiveness happening for something like a murder; otherwise, I don't think it's happening, nor would it be just and merciful upon the minds and hearts of the unbelievers. God might spare the believer and give them a life sentence or less, and then use their time in jail for his glory, but that's up to God and the rulers he set in place in worldly govt to decide.
Would that be a just assessment of the situation? ("Leave it up to worldly govt, and if the believer actually committed a sin worthy of death, then no one should be praying for his release. The death penalty depends on the Genile govt. we're currently under, but between two believers forgiveness and mercy should be happening. If the perpetrator is an unrepentant believer though, out to worldly government they go, no forgiveness.")
question