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What if Jesus meant every word He said? 

Tags: God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, The Bible, Truth, Love, Eternal Life, Salvation, Faith, Holy, Fellowship, Apologetics 

Reply Cults, heresies, Pseudepigrapha and other religions
If the Quran is true, then Islam is false

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Garland-Green

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:12 am
by Matt Slick

If the Quran is true, then Islam is false. Why? Because the Quran says to trust the Gospels, but the four Gospels contradict the Quran. This means the Quran can't be true if it says the gospel message is also true. In order to show this, I will quote several verses from the Quran. The more important ones are bolded for easy reference later.

None can change Allah's words
6:34, "Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers."
6:115, "The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all."
18:27, "And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, and none wilt thou find as a refuge other than Him."

2.Moses was given the Torah
2:87, "We gave Moses the Book and followed him up with a succession of messengers; We gave Jesus the son of Mary Clear (Signs) and strengthened him with the holy spirit. Is it that whenever there comes to you a messenger with what ye yourselves desire not, ye are puffed up with pride?--Some ye called impostors, and others ye slay!"
3:3, "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong)."

3.David was given the Psalms
4:163, "We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms."

4.Jesus was given the gospel
57:27, "Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors."

5. Christians should judge by what is in the Gospel
5:47, "Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel."

6. The Quran confirms the Torah, the Psalms, and the Gospels, and guards them
5:48, "To thee [the people of the gospel] We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute,"

7.Ask Christians about spiritual things
10:94, "If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt."

8.Curse on those who say God has a son
9:30, "The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!"

9. Jesus not crucified
4:157, "That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";--but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not."
Alright, so we see that . . .

1.None can change Allah's words (6:34, 6:115, 18:27)
2. Jesus was given the gospel by Allah (57:27)
3. The Quran confirms the Gospels (5:48.)
4. The Gospels contradict the Quran

So, if the Quran confirms the Gospels which say that Jesus was crucified (Matthew 27:26–31, Mark 15:15–20, Luke 23:32–34, John 19:17-18.) and the Quran says Jesus was not crucified (Surah 4:157), then the Quran is false. But if it says that the Gospels are false, then the Quran denies its own teaching, and Islam is false.

Objections Answered
Objection: The gospel is not the written record but the message that Jesus gave.

This can't work because the Quran confirms the Torah, the Psalms, and the gospels (written records) that were around at the time of Muhammad.

Surah 5:48, "To thee [the people of the gospel] We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:25 am
The Qur'an

by Matt Slick

The Qur'an (Koran, Quran) is the Holy Book of Islam and the religion's most sacred writing. Muslims consider it the actual word of Allah and not the word of Muhammad to whom it was given. Muslim tradition states that the angel Gabriel visited Muhammad and gave him the words directly from Allah. These words were Allah's words of wisdom, truth, and commandments to His creation. The Qur'an (which means recitation) was revealed in the Arabic dialect used by the Quraish tribe of Mecca of that time. This dialect became the formal Arabic of the Islamic nations due to the distribution of Qur'anic scriptures throughout the Islamic empire. In the Arabic, the Qur'an is poetic in style with rhymes, meter, and shifts in line lengths. Those who speak the language say that it is a beautiful work.

The Qur'an deals mainly with what and how Allah wants mankind to believe and do in Man's moral struggle. Its primary theme is that of complete submission to the will of Allah. However, it also teaches:

- there is only one sovereign God (3:191, 5:73, 112:1-4).
- there will be an end of the world and judgment day (3:30, 35:33-37).
- those who are not Muslims will go to hell (2:24, 3:12).
- those whose good deeds exceed their bad will obtain paradise (3:135, 7:8-9, 21:47).

social and ethical behavior for Islamic society.
In the year 610 (believed to be the 26th of Ramadan) while in a cave on Mt. Hirah, which is now called Mount Jabal Nur, Muhammad said that the angel Gabriel appeared to him and commanded him to recite (96:1-19). From that point on, Muhammad claimed to have received revelations up to the time of his death--23 years later in 632. In these encounters with the angel Gabriel, sometimes Muhammad would see the angel, other times he would only hear him, and at others he only heard the sound of a bell through which the words of the angel came.

Since Muhammad could not read or write, his companions wrote down what he said. These recitations were copied onto a variety of materials: papyrus, flat stones, palm leaves, shoulder blades and ribs of animals, pieces of leather and wooden boards.1 Additionally, these sayings were also being memorized by Mohammad's followers. In fact, to this day great emphasis is placed upon memorizing the entire Qur'an, and there are many thousands of Muslims who have committed it to memory. The work is roughly the same size as the New Testament.

Apparently, there was no attempt made to collect all of the sayings given by Muhammad during his lifetime. After all, Muhammad was continuing to give 'recitations' on a somewhat regular basis. After he died in 632, Abu-Bakr, Muhammad's father in law, became the caliph (religious leader of the Muslims). At that time there was a small effort to collect the fragments of Qur'anic sayings into a common place. Still, it wasn't until the fourth leader of Islam, Caliph Uthman, that the whole Qur'an was finally assembled, approved, and disseminated throughout the Muslim world.

The Quran contains many biblical figures (Abraham, David, Moses, and Jesus) as well as non-biblical figures. However, some of the accounts of biblical characters are different from the Bible.

The Quran is divided into 114 chapters called Surahs. The word surah means "row." Today the Koran is arranged with the longer surahs first and the shorter ones after--with the whole thing divided into 30 approximately equal lengths.

"Islamic law prohibits the touching of the physical Arabic Qur'an (and formal, but not casual, recitation) unless the person is in a state of purity which corresponds to the greater of Ablution . . . every Moslem must commit at least 12 vs. or lines of the Qur'an to memory."2

The revelations are identified as having been revealed either in Mecca or Medina. Generally, those revealed in Mecca are the earlier ones and are more poetic and deal with apocalyptic themes. The Medina revelations deal more with the law of Allah. Many have noted that the arrangement of the Qur'an is not chronological or thematic. The subjects tend to be disjointed and shifting. This is due in part to the directions of Muhammad to put certain sayings in different places in the Surahs. Muslims are aware of this and consider it to be the divine order in the Koran.


1. Watt, W. Montgomery, Islamic Surveys: Bell's Introduction to the Qur'an, Chicago: Aldine Publishing Company, 1970, p. 40.
2. Glasse, Cyril, The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, San Francisco: Harper & Row, p. 220.

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Garland-Green

Friendly Gaian


Garland-Green

Friendly Gaian

PostPosted: Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:41 am
Contradictions in the Qur'an
by Matt Slick

The Qur'an states that it is a perfect book preserved on tablets in heaven (Surah 85:21-22). If the Qur'an is a perfect book from Allah, then there shouldn't be any contradictions in it. Of course, the Muslims will deny any contradictions exist in the Qur'an, but they do. Some of the contradictions below could be debated, but some of them are clearly contradictions.

A contradiction occurs when one statement on a subject excludes the possibility of another. The first one here is a good example. In Surah 19:67, it states that man was created out of nothing. In 15:26, man is created from clay. Since clay is something, we have a contradiction since "nothing" excludes the possibility of "clay." Both cannot be true.

All quotes from the Qur'an--unless otherwise specified--are from Yusuf Ali and can be found at the Qur'an online.

What was man created from: blood, clay, dust, or nothing?
"Created man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood," (96:2).
"We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape," (15:26).
"The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be." And he was," (3:59).
"But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" (19:67, Yusuf Ali). Also, 52:35).
"He has created man from a sperm-drop; and behold this same (man) becomes an open disputer! (16:4).

Is there or is there not compulsion in religion according to the Qur'an?
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things," (2:256).
"And an announcement from Allah and His Messenger, to the people (assembled) on the day of the Great Pilgrimage,--that Allah and His Messenger dissolve (treaty) obligations with the Pagans. If then, ye repent, it were best for you; but if ye turn away, know ye that ye cannot frustrate Allah. And proclaim a grievous penalty to those who reject Faith," (9:3).
"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful," (9:5).
"Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued," (9:29).

The first Muslim was Muhammad? Abraham? Jacob? Moses?
"And I [Muhammad] am commanded to be the first of those who bow to Allah in Islam," (39:12).
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe," (7:143).
"And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam," (2:132).

Does Allah forgive or not forgive those who worship false gods?
"Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed," (4:48.). Also 4:116.
"The people of the Book ask thee to cause a book to descend to them from heaven: Indeed they asked Moses for an even greater (miracle), for they said: "Show us Allah in public," but they were dazed for their presumption, with thunder and lightning. Yet they worshipped the calf even after clear signs had come to them; even so we forgave them; and gave Moses manifest proofs of authority," (4:153).

Are Allah's decrees changed or not?
"Rejected were the messengers before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those messengers," (6:34).
"The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfillment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all," (6:115).
None of Our revelations do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: "Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" (2:106).
When We substitute one revelation for another,--and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),--they say, "Thou art but a forger": but most of them understand not," (16:101).

Was Pharaoh killed or not killed by drowning?
"We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: "I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to Allah in Islam). (It was said to him): "Ah now!--But a little while before, wast thou in rebellion!- and thou didst mischief (and violence)! This day shall We save thee in the body, that thou mayest be a sign to those who come after thee! but verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Signs!" (10:90-92).
Moses said, "Thou knowest well that these things have been sent down by none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth as eye-opening evidence: and I consider thee indeed, O Pharaoh, to be one doomed to destruction!" So he resolved to remove them from the face of the earth: but We did drown him and all who were with him," (17:102-103).

Is wine consumption good or bad?
"O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,--of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper," (5:90).
"(Here is) a Parable of the Garden which the righteous are promised: in it are rivers of water incorruptible; rivers of milk of which the taste never changes; rivers of wine, a joy to those who drink; and rivers of honey pure and clear. In it there are for them all kinds of fruits; and Grace from their Lord. (Can those in such Bliss) be compared to such as shall dwell for ever in the Fire, and be given, to drink, boiling water, so that it cuts up their bowels (to pieces)?" (47:15).
"Truly the Righteous will be in Bliss: On Thrones (of Dignity) will they command a sight (of all things): Thou wilt recognize in their faces the beaming brightness of Bliss. Their thirst will be slaked with Pure Wine sealed," (83:22-25).

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