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What if Jesus meant every word He said? 

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Christian Colleges that “Burn” God’s Word?

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Lady Vizsla

PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 7:27 am


This associate professor from Wheaton College exhibits a gross inconsistency and uses an evolutionary view of history as part of her reasoning for her actions.

As reported in the Christian Post with the headline “Wheaton College Prof. to Wear Hijab During Advent to Show Solidarity With Muslims,” an associate professor at a once-theologically conservative Christian school, Wheaton College, stated the following on her Facebook page:

As part of my Advent Worship, I will wear the hijab to work at Wheaton College, to play in Chi-town, in the airport and on the airplane to my home state that initiated one of the first anti-Sharia laws (read: unconstitutional and Islamophobic), and at church.

She also stated, “I stand in religious solidarity with Muslims because they, like me, a Christian, are people of the book. And as Pope Francis stated last week, we worship the same God.”

Now, Christians and Muslims certainly do not “worship the same God.” The God of the Bible is not the same as that of the Quran (Koran).

As AiG speaker/writer Bodie Hodge states,

Religious books, such as Islam’s Koran, Mormonism’s Book of Mormon, and Hinduism’s Vedas, contradict the Bible; and so they cannot be Scripture. For example, the Koran in two chapters (Sura 4:171 and 23:91) says God had no son, but the Bible is clear that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (Matthew 26:63–64).

In another article on the AiG website we point out,

Like the Bible, the Quran teaches that people are descendants of Adam and Eve and are imperfect sinners. However, the Quran also teaches that their god, Allah, inspired sin in humankind (Quran 4:88; 7:16–18; 9:51; 14:4; 16:93; 35:8; 57:22; 74:31; 91:7–9). Muslims believe that humans are sinners because Allah has willed it. They have no understanding similar to the Bible’s teaching that humans, not God, caused sin through rebellion against God (Romans 5:12, 5:18–19).

The Quran’s teachings regarding salvation are inconsistent. On the one hand, the Quran teaches that salvation is based on purification by good deeds (Quran 7:6–9). A Muslim can become righteous through prayer, almsgiving, fasting, and living according to the Quran. Yet the Quran also teaches that Allah has predetermined every person’s destiny, and one’s righteous acts may or may not affect Allah’s decision (Quran 57:22). It teaches that everyone, both the righteous and the unrighteous, will be led into hell by Allah, before the righteous will enter heaven (Quran 19:67–72). Therefore no Muslim can know his or her eternal destiny in this life. Even Muhammad himself was unsure of his salvation (Quran 31:34; 46:9).

The Quran actually states that people are descendants of Adam and Eve. Yet this associate professor from Wheaton College denies this, and so exhibits a gross inconsistency. She states the following in giving an evolutionary view of history:

I stand in human solidarity with my Muslim neighbor because we are formed of the same primordial clay, descendants of the same cradle of humankind—a cave in Sterkfontein, South Africa that I had the privilege to descend into to plumb the depths of our common humanity in 2014.

So she actually contradicts the Quran when she uses an evolutionary view of history as part of her reasoning to display a solidarity with Muslims.

Over the years, we’ve been warning the church that so many Christian colleges have been compromising God’s Word in Genesis—and we’ve been warning that such compromise will eventually lead to apostasy. This is exactly what we are seeing in this example from a Wheaton College professor.

In a way, a similar kind of compromise happened in Jeremiah’s day. Jeremiah warned the people and the leader (the king) to believe God’s Word. When God had Jeremiah write down the warnings to the people, we read,

Now the king was sitting in the winter house in the ninth month, with a fire burning on the hearth before him. And it happened, when Jehudi had read three or four columns, that the king cut it with the scribe’s knife and cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the scroll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth. Yet they were not afraid, nor did they tear their garments, the king nor any of his servants who heard all these words. (Jeremiah 36:22–24)

So many Christian college professors have been tearing out God’s Word and, in a sense, “burning” it. They started tearing out the account of the creation in six days, then the account of the Flood, and now the account of the creation of a literal Adam and Eve. They have also been tearing out the Bible’s doctrine of marriage. I submit that they have taken God’s Word and “cast it into the fire that was on the hearth, until all the scroll was consumed in the fire that was on the hearth.” “Yet they were not afraid,” just like in Jeremiah’s day. But they should be very afraid:

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:31)

One day these Christian colleges, their professors, presidents, and boards will give an account before the Lord for their actions—which are leading generations astray.

In 2011, we published the book Already Compromised that detailed the research on the state of Christian colleges in this nation and what they believe. That book, along with two others, Already Gone and Ready to Return, are the most definitive works on the state of Christianity in America (reflecting the Western world). The research for each book was conducted by renowned researcher Britt Beemer from America’s Research Group. All three books are now available as a special pack titled Ready for Reformation. I urge you to obtain a set and understand what is happening to the church when it comes to compromise with the Bible, and how it is having a devastating impact on generations.

Thanks for stopping by and thanks for praying,
Ken
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:16 pm


Lady Kariel
[...] As part of my Advent Worship, I will wear the hijab to work at Wheaton College, to play in Chi-town, in the airport and on the airplane to my home state that initiated one of the first anti-Sharia laws (read: unconstitutional and Islamophobic), and at church.[...]


She's also "burning", so to speak, the parts of scripture where YHWH condemns wearing the dress of other religions:

      • Zephaniah 1:8-9 (NIV)

        8 “On the day of the Lord’s sacrifice
            I will punish the officials
            and the king’s sons
        and all those clad
            in foreign clothes.
        9 On that day I will punish
            all who avoid stepping on the threshold,[a]
        who fill the temple of their gods
            with violence and deceit.

        Footnotes:

        a. Zephaniah 1:9 See 1 Samuel 5:5.


Our Heavenly Father will punish his own people for wearing the spiritually significant garb of other beliefs—which in spirit means his people giving off the appearance of another religion, despite actually belonging to YHWH. It is deceitful and idolatrous to do so. As Christians, we shouldn't give off the appearance of someone who denies the deity Christ. What we do, what we put on our bodies, and what we participate in, will either convey the gospel truth or deny it.

      • 2 Corinthians 6:14 (NIV)

        14 Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

      • Exodus 34:15 (NIV)

        15 “Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land; for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to them, they will invite you and you will eat their sacrifices.


Whether that sacrifice be food or a shared prayer to their god.

      • Psalm 141:2 (NIV)

        2 May my prayer be set before you like incense;
            may the lifting up of my hands be like the evening sacrifice.


So, we cannot participate in their spirituality nor even give off the appearance that we do.


---



That said, Ham is being unjust with some of his allegations against the Quran (seeing as the Quran has Judeo-Christian ideas mixed into it—and these will be true, but he's speaking against them). And unfortunately, his blanket statements are condemning verses in the bible.

First, the only thing he got correct:


Ken Ham
For example, the Koran in two chapters (Sura 4:171 and 23:91) says God had no son, but the Bible is clear that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (Matthew 26:63–64).


This is true. No problem here. I'll add one more Surah that illustrates this contrast.

        Quran:

      • Surah 112:1-4 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

        1 Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One,
        2 Allah , the Eternal Refuge.
        3 He neither begets nor is born,
        4 Nor is there to Him any equivalent."


        Bible

      • John 3:16 (KJV)

        16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.



Ham gets unjust in the following:


Ken Ham
However, the Quran also teaches that their god, Allah, inspired sin in humankind (Quran 4:88; 7:16–18; 9:51; 14:4; 16:93; 35:8; 57:22; 74:31; 91:7–9).


If that's how he's going to phrase it, then the same allegation can be lifted against the bible once a person bothers looking up the Surah. When you read the verses (not how people unjustly paraphrase those verses) this is an area the bible and the Quran actually agree on... emotion_sweatdrop


I'll quote the nine verses in the Quran mentioned above, along with the equivalent concept in the bible:

1. Surah 4:88

        Quran:

      • Surah 4:88 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

        What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].



        Bible:

      • 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12 (NIV)

        10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.


God leads people astray.

The only safeguard against the deception—a deception which God sends—is believing the truth he gave us: and what is the truth?

      • Psalm 119:43 (NIV)

        43 Never take your word of truth from my mouth,
             for I have put my hope in your laws.

      • John 17:17 (NIV)

        17 Sanctify them by[a] the truth; your word is truth.

        Footnotes:

        a. John 17:17 Or them to live in accordance with


But God sends the deception on purpose. It's from him. Had God not provided the truth, this would be entrapment and people could not be condemned for it. But because he provided the truth, that means people rejected it, so their demise is their own fault. Being led astray to their demise is what they earned.

---

2. Surah 7:16-18

        Quran:

      • Surah 7:16-18 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

        16 [Satan] said, "Because You have put me in error, I will surely sit in wait for them on Your straight path.

        17 Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."

        18 [ Allah ] said, "Get out of Paradise, reproached and expelled. Whoever follows you among them - I will surely fill Hell with you, all together."


Satan...getting mad at God and threatening to lead the righteous astray. God essentially says, go ahead, I'll throw you—and anyone who follows you—into hell.

Akin to:

        Bible:
(edited to add 1 Peter 5:8)

  • 1 Peter 5:8 (NIV)

    8 Be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.


  • 1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)

    4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.


  • Matthew 25:41 (NIV)

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

    The Quran and the Bible agree on this.

    ---


    3. Surah 9:51

          Quran:

        • Surah 9:51 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          Say, "Never will we be struck except by what Allah has decreed for us; He is our protector." And upon Allah let the believers rely.



          Bible:

        • Isaiah 54:17 (NIV)

          17  no weapon forged against you will prevail,
              and you will refute every tongue that accuses you.
              This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,
              and this is their vindication from me,”
                declares the Lord.

        • Proverbs 11:6 (NIV)

          6 The righteousness of the upright delivers them,
              but the unfaithful are trapped by evil desires.

        • Proverbs 2:8 (NIV)

          8 for he guards the course of the just
              and protects the way of his faithful ones.

        • Jeremiah 7:23 (NIV)

          23 but I gave them this command: Obey me, and I will be your God and you will be my people. Walk in obedience to all I command you, that it may go well with you.

        • Job 30:11 (NIV)

          11 Now that God has unstrung my bow and afflicted me,
          they throw off restraint in my presence.


    We won't suffer calamity (unless God sends it on purpose— e.g. Job), because he protects those who obey him. His commands keep us from suffering.

    However, God sends suffering to develop godly attributes in us and to prove what's in our hearts.

        • Isaiah 48:10 (NIV)

          10 See, I have refined you, though not as silver;
               I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.


    There is a calamity that is caused by God (to test, purify and refine us) But the calamity we cause ourselves is avoided when we obey God's commands. That's biblical.


    ---

    4. Surah 14:4

          Quran:

        • Surah 14:4 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.



          Bible:

        • Romans 1:28 (NIV)

          28 Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.


        • Jeremiah 10:23 (NIV)

          23 Lord, I know that people’s lives are not their own;
              it is not for them to direct their steps.


        • Psalm 37:23 (NIV)

          23 The Lord makes firm the steps
          of the one who delights in him;


        • Jeremiah 23:11-12 (NIV)

          11 “Both prophet and priest are godless;
              even in my temple I find their wickedness,”
                    declares the Lord.
          12 “Therefore their path will become slippery;
                they will be banished to darkness
                and there they will fall.
              I will bring disaster on them
                in the year they are punished,”
                    declares the Lord.


    There is nothing special about how the Quran phrased its verse that should have us interpreting the claims differently from the concept that appears in the bible. It's identical.

    ---

    5. Surah 16:93

          Quran:

        • Surah 16:93 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          And if Allah had willed, He could have made you [of] one religion, but He causes to stray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And you will surely be questioned about what you used to do.



          Bible:

        • Deuteronomy 13:2-3 (NIV)

          2 and if the sign or wonder spoken of takes place, and the prophet says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.


    The false prophets are sent by God (and they're not false because the miracles they wrought were false, but because the prophet is leading you astray to worship another god). God wants to see if we'll stay true to his commands. The only ones falling for the false prophet (and thus the false religion—since the prophet is saying, let's go worship other gods), will be those who reject God's commands. They will be deceived and fail the test of loyalty.

    I mentioned this before (at least I think I mentioned it in this guild) how the Quran denies commandments in the Law of Moses in addition to denying details in the gospels. Ergo, Islam is a false prophet religion (even if they copied truths from the Torah and the Gospels, because the Quran contains lies / distortions of the truth elsewhere that deny both the Father and the Son—that deny the Law, Prophets, Psalms, Gospels and Epistles), so we should not associate spiritually with them.

    Examples of God preventing one religion:

        • Romans 11:25 (NIV)

          25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in,


        • Deuteronomy 29:4 (NIV)

          4 But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.


        • Isaiah 29:10 (NIV)

          10 The Lord has brought over you a deep sleep:
          He has sealed your eyes (the prophets);
          he has covered your heads (the seers).


    Ergo, there is no one religion. God could have willed us to be one religion, but he didn't. Some Jews are over there denying Jesus, and some Jews are over here accepting the prophesied Messiah. And then there are a bunch of cults, which in line with the false prophet religions mentioned above in Deut 13:2-3, suggests to me that it is YHWH sending them on purpose to test our loyalty. Will the Christians be led astray by a prophet that rises up amongst them, claiming to be a Christian, despite that prophet denying my commands, my prophecy, my written word that came prior to said prophet? or will they follow after this new thing that denies my previous words? Some I will blind and lead astray. Others will be in the truth. We will still have to give an account for why we chose what we did even if he leads us astray / fell for the deception (is it not because they refuse to believe what is written? like the Pharisees and Sadducees who kept denying Jesus despite having access to the same scriptures? They read the verses about resurrection and angels, but the Sadduccees totally denied the existence of both; and the Pharisees denied Jesus as Messiah despite him carrying out the prophecies as they were written).

        • John 12:37-41 (NIV)

          37 Even after Jesus had performed so many signs in their presence, they still would not believe in him. 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet:

              “Lord, who has believed our message
              and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”[a]

          39 For this reason they could not believe, because, as Isaiah says elsewhere:

          40 “He has blinded their eyes
              and hardened their hearts,
          so they can neither see with their eyes,
              nor understand with their hearts,
              nor turn—and I would heal them.”[b]

          41 Isaiah said this because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about him.

          Footnotes:

          a. John 12:38 Isaiah 53:1
          b. John 12:40 Isaiah 6:10


    God opened Isaiah's eyes. But God led the Pharisees astray.

    He guides whom he wills. And leads others astray.

    And they will have to give account for it (suggesting to me that they have something to do with why they were hardened in the first place: did we accept or reject God's divine revelation and written testimony?).

    ---

    6. Surah 35:8

          Quran:

        • Surah 35:8 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          Then is one to whom the evil of his deed has been made attractive so he considers it good [like one rightly guided]? For indeed, Allah sends astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself perish over them in regret. Indeed, Allah is Knowing of what they do.


          Bible:

        • 1 Kings 22:23-24 (NIV)

          23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

          24 Then Zedekiah son of Kenaanah went up and slapped Micaiah in the face. “Which way did the spirit from[a] the Lord go when he went from me to speak to you?” he asked.

          Footnotes:

          a. 1 Kings 22:24 Or Spirit of


    God leads astray and all the while, the person thinks they're pursuing the right thing (if, however, they would check God's Law, what's read from Moses' seat, then it should have been obvious that they're pursuing the wrong thing and advising wrongly; Zedekiah was one of Ahab's prophets, and Ahab's reign was fully of idolatry. How, in his right mind, does Zedekiah prophesy success for this guy? He should have been prophesying judgment from God because that is what the law says will happen).

        • Deuteronomy 30:17-18 (NIV)

          17 But if your heart turns away and you are not obedient, and if you are drawn away to bow down to other gods and worship them, 18 I declare to you this day that you will certainly be destroyed. You will not live long in the land you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess.

        • Isaiah 8:20 (KJV)

          20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.


    Whether we love God's commands or the sayings of a so-called prophet/man of God/religious man: it will be proven.

    In whom and in what do we place our trust: man's words (commentaries and spiritual opinions) or God's Law (and thus God himself)?

    Since Jesus was all about obeying the latter (Matthew 23:1-3; Matthew 15:1-9), then if we follow his example, we won't be led astray.We won't fall for the deception. Ergo, Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the Life, because it doesn't negate the Father's words. If someone nullifies the Father, then they have no understanding and will be led astray. God orchestrates something to lead you astray, knowing you don't confide in his word. But those who do confide in his word won't fall for the deception.

    ---


    7. Surah 57:22

          Quran:

        • Surah 57:22 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          No disaster strikes upon the earth or among yourselves except that it is in a register before We bring it into being - indeed that, for Allah , is easy -


    Disaster...? as in "natural disaster" (hurricane, hailstorms, earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, etc)...? war / terrorism (the disaster "among yourselves")?

    God does stir it up.

          Bible:

        • Isaiah 45:7 (NIV)

          7 I form the light and create darkness,
          I bring prosperity and create disaster;
          I, the Lord, do all these things.


        • 2 Chronicles 15:6 (NIV)

          6 One nation was being crushed by another and one city by another, because God was troubling them with every kind of distress.


    I can't provide a verse that specially supports "ALL disasters are already registered before they happen"), but the Holy Spirit brings a verse to mind about a man's life:

        • Psalm 139:16 (NIV)

          16 Your eyes saw my unformed body;
              all the days ordained for me were written in your book
              before one of them came to be.


    If he has all of man's days registered / recorded (like some movie script), then wouldn't the natural disasters (and wars) of that movie be scripted too? God, knowing beforehand how we, as individuals, would choose (given the right knowledge and the opportunity to sin / refrain from sin, plus knowing the necessary suffering we would need to experience to either get us to repent or be destroyed in our obstinate ways), writes it all down, then presses play.

        • Psalm 119:67 (NIV)

          67 Before I was afflicted I went astray,
               but now I obey your word.


        • Revelation 9:20-21 (NIV)

          20 The rest of mankind who were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk. 21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.


    Thus why we will still have to give an account for why we chose the way we did—because it wasn't God choosing for us, forcing us, into a role of righteous or wicked. We chose. He, being outside of time, simply saw the end and wrote it down for us...this one is going to react this way, so I'll use him for that...

    And about disasters being written down already, actually, is that not what all the prophecies in the bible are? nation will rise against nation? earthquakes? hail and fire raining down from the sky mixed with blood? Jesus opening the seals, of a written scroll, so nations start fighting one another? angels pouring out bowls of wrath to kill us? That sounds like disasters that have been written down already and will happen according to what was written. Why wouldn't he have all those disasters written down already? Why is this verse being included here?

    All of that to say, what the verse in the Quran is actually saying has nothing to do with God making people sin, lol. The lie is how Ham chose to summarize this and include it into the list.


    The last two of the nine surahs will not be comparisons. Their inclusion is just plain irrelevant.
    ---

    8. Surah 74:31

        • Surah 74:31 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          And We have not made the keepers of the Fire except angels. And We have not made their number except as a trial for those who disbelieve - that those who were given the Scripture will be convinced and those who have believed will increase in faith and those who were given the Scripture and the believers will not doubt and that those in whose hearts is hypocrisy and the disbelievers will say, "What does Allah intend by this as an example?" Thus does Allah leave astray whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And none knows the soldiers of your Lord except Him. And mention of the Fire is not but a reminder to humanity.


    This verse is exactly what this exercise is proving: hypocrisy and disbelievers even amongst those who profess faith in God. How can they be saying, "this verse contradicts the God of the bible", when the very word of God has identical statements? What they're proving is their unfamiliarity with the bible (at best) or disbelief of the bible (at worst).

    And nothing here suggests God is making anyone sin.


    ---


    9. Surah 91:7-9

        • Surah 91:7-9 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          7 And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it

          8 And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness,

          9 He has succeeded who purifies it,


    This verse is saying that God has given a person discernment so they can tell the difference between what is wicked and righteous...

    I do not see why they included this verse as evidence that God inspires sin in a person because he gave us discernment to know what in us was wicked... question




    And as for the following...

    Ken Ham
    The Quran’s teachings regarding salvation are inconsistent. On the one hand, the Quran teaches that salvation is based on purification by good deeds (Quran 7:6–9). A Muslim can become righteous through prayer, almsgiving, fasting, and living according to the Quran. Yet the Quran also teaches that Allah has predetermined every person’s destiny, and one’s righteous acts may or may not affect Allah’s decision (Quran 57:22). It teaches that everyone, both the righteous and the unrighteous, will be led into hell by Allah, before the righteous will enter heaven (Quran 19:67–72). Therefore no Muslim can know his or her eternal destiny in this life. Even Muhammad himself was unsure of his salvation (Quran 31:34; 46:9).


    These same type of hypocritical allegations, about deeds declaring one righteous (and their biblical equivalents), I already addressed in this thread (amongst other allegations that are indirect attacks on the bible seeing as the bible makes similar statements): Loving Your Muslim Neighbor part 2

    ---

    About God "predetermining": the verse Ham cited, again, was the one about "all disasters" being recorded ahead of time and God bringing to pass something that has already been written (and that nothing comes to pass without it being already written).

    That said, God knowing everyone's destiny, outside of time—and declaring the end because he already saw it—is not him forcing you to be wicked or righteous ahead of time; your decisions to accept / reject truth played a part in what you would do. To God, it's already determined (from his perspective outside of time). To us, our decisions are happening in real time. So yes, our decisions play a part. Did you accept the truth or did you not? Did you accept the Son of God or did you stay condemned? (John 3:16-18) Did you trample the blood that sanctified you or did you stay loyal to him?. Did you accept the message he sent through his (true) prophets (Moses, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Amos, Joel, Malachi, etc...)? or did you reject them?

    ---

    Surah 19:67-72 sounds like Hades (which also gets translated as "hell" in the bible despite it being different than the lake of fire/gehenna which also gets translated as "hell" in the bible). Everyone goes to Hades (the realm of the dead—the not permanent “hell”), and then we get judged (on judgment day) to see if we get thrown into the lake of fire (the permanent hell):

        • Surah 19:67-72 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          67 Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

          68 So by your Lord, We will surely gather them and the devils; then We will bring them to be present around Hell upon their knees.

          69 Then We will surely extract from every sect those of them who were worst against the Most Merciful in insolence.

          70 Then, surely it is We who are most knowing of those most worthy of burning therein.

          71 And there is none of you except he will come to it. This is upon your Lord an inevitability decreed.

          72 Then We will save those who feared Allah and leave the wrongdoers within it, on their knees.


    Is that not what will happen to those in the realm of the dead (Hades)? everyone goes there. And then those who, on judgment day (thus after being assessed, judged for their deeds), are deemed wicked, will be thrown into the lake of fire...? and your deeds having something to do with it:

        • Matthew 25:31-46 (NIV)

          31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

          34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

          37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

          40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

          41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

          44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

          45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

          46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”


        • Acts 17:31 (NIV)

          31 For he has set a day when he will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising him from the dead.”


        • Acts 10:42 (NIV)

          42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead.


        • 2 Corinthians 5:10 (NIV)

          10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each of us may receive what is due us for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.


        • Ecclesiastes 12:14 (NIV)

          14 For God will bring every deed into judgment,
               including every hidden thing,
               whether it is good or evil.


        • 1 Corinthians 4:5 (NIV)

          5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.


        • Romans 2:5-7 (NIV)

          5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

          Footnotes:

          a. Romans 2:6 Psalm 62:12; Prov. 24:12


    Even Paul. Deeds. Do them. Your persistence in them is rewarded with eternal life.

    ---

    The rest of these verses have nothing to do with being saved from hell...


        • Surah 31:34 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          Indeed, Allah [alone] has knowledge of the Hour and sends down the rain and knows what is in the wombs. And no soul perceives what it will earn tomorrow, and no soul perceives in what land it will die. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.


    Biblical parallel:

        • Proverbs 27:1 (NIV)

          27 Do not boast about tomorrow,
               for you do not know what a day may bring.

        • James 4:13-15 (NIV)

          13 Now listen, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money.” 14 Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. 15 Instead, you ought to say, “If it is the Lord’s will, we will live and do this or that.”


    We can't know certain things. Neither the Surah, nor the above passages from the bible, address knowing or not knowing if you'll spend eternity with God. They're both talking about not knowing earthly things (will it rain? What will happen tomorrow? how much money will we earn?)

    The following also has nothing to do with being saved from hell (or sin)—whatever Ken Ham means by "salvation" (being reconciled to God, sins atoned for, and turned away from sin, and instead desiring after righteousness? The following verse has nothing to do with it, but he quoted it as evidence):

        • Surah 46:9 SAHIH INTERNATIONAL

          Say, "I am not something original among the messengers, nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am not but a clear warner."


    He's just receiving a message and passing it forward. Nothing to do with salvation, and this messenger knows nothing about your life or what will become of it. If Ham is aware of what the Surah literally says, and he's still trying to apply this verse to salvation, is this not the same thing when we say, "I can't condemn you to hell, I'm just telling you what the bible says....?" >_>;;

    ---

    How is it that Ken Ham is parroting the same indirect attacks on the bible as the men in that other video series (How to Love Your Muslim Neighbor)? Seems like a whole bunch of laziness is going on and not enough Berean spirit in the body.

        • Acts 17:11 (NIV)

          11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.


    These allegations, at this point, are baseless rumor. And thus sin to continue spreading:

        • Exodus 23:1-2 (NIV)

          23 “Do not spread false reports. Do not help a guilty person by being a malicious witness.

          2 “Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,


    Just because the majority of Christians parrot something as the truth, that doesn't make it true. Does it agree with the bible or not? Does it actually nullify the the testimony of the Old Testament and New Testament or not? God's Word is the standard for what's right and what's wrong.

    ---

        • 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

          15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


    Where Ken Ham is correct: the Quran is anti-Christ. And that the girl is clearly denying that God created in six days and rested on the seventh and that God formed man out of the dust of the earth, with her "created from a primordial soup" theory. However, there is so much wrong in what he said: the oft-quoted "why the Quran is different than Bible" arguments are wrong—minus the rejection of the crucifixion and God's uniquely begotten Son (that he got correct about the Quran; it is anti-christ).

    The Christian girl is correct in that the Quran has identical concepts that we find in the bible (because Judeo-Christian beliefs were floating around in Arabia during Muhammad's time, centuries after Christ). But she is wrong here: by wearing that hijab (at least in the USA), she is denying the deity of Christ. No one but Muslims wear the hijab here, and what they believe is that Jesus is a mere prophet, not the Son of God, nor God incarnate. She is in sin for wearing the religious garb of another religion (one that denies that Jesus Christ is the uniquely begotten Son of God and our atonement sacrifice); she deceives people into thinking that biblical Christians worship the same and even think the same as Islam by dressing as they do. She's failing to lead people to the truth and failing to lead away from their distortions of the truth.

    Sigh.

    We need to be alert about these kinds of lies + truth = distorted truth, being passed around, even from Christians sources. And we need to judge righteously according to the word of God and not merely “majority says this so it must be true” mentality. The majority will always be wrong.

        • Matthew 7:13-15 (NIV)

          13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

          15 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.



  • cristobela
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