How do you deal with difference in opinion?

[Tantei_Saru3]

Maybe "opinion" is the wrong word, but I didn't really know how else to phrase it in the subject line. What I'm trying to ask is, what do you do when most of every Christian you know willingly participates in seemingly harmless pleasures, but you know these pleasures to be ungodly? I guess I'm mostly speaking in terms of entertainment, it can be such a subtle and innocent carrier.

Perhaps they don't do any significant/noticeable damage, but that still can't be good right? I mean, origins matter, and if it doesn't begin with God, odds are it won't end with God. That's the point of being reborn, yeah? It's a new start, so that He is our beginning and end, our Alpha and Omega. But it's not like that with works. They can't be reborn, they either need to be continued or stopped.

But even if it did seem to do good--I learned SO many things from secular kid shows growing up, many of us did, but all I'm thinking here are two verses: 1 Corinthians 13:11, which says to put childish thinking away once you become an adult, and Luke 9:23, which says we ought to deny ourselves to take up our crosses daily should we ever pursue the Lord.

I just feel a bit... overwhelmed and outnumbered. I generally don't feel like this, but in this particular moment of weakness, I selected to seek out a second opinion even though the question wasn't exactly clear. It's not really clear because I'm not necessarily sure what I'm asking...

I guess the questions I could draw from all this are: (1) How does one deal with anonymity of sinful practices/pleasures? The less obvious ones. (2) How would I go about shedding light on something sinful in nature that is closely held to a person's heart if I should ever need to? And (3) .... Why is all this so difficult? Why is it so easy to care about ungodly things? I can only credit this generation for that because as far as I can tell, it's never been so uniquely easy and accessible before 'Today.' Still, all this is quite vexing, and wearing. That could be the vulnerability talking, but hey, we'll go with it. I just want some input before I throw my head against the wall sweatdrop  

[King Shining Heaven]

If they are Christians and their actions are ungodly, we're called in the Bible to tell them as much, so the can better themselves and their worship for God.  

[cristobela]

Tantei_Saru3

Maybe "opinion" is the wrong word, but I didn't really know how else to phrase it in the subject line. What I'm trying to ask is, what do you do when most of every Christian you know willingly participates in seemingly harmless pleasures, but you know these pleasures to be ungodly? I guess I'm mostly speaking in terms of entertainment, it can be such a subtle and innocent carrier.

Perhaps they don't do any significant/noticeable damage, but that still can't be good right? I mean, origins matter, and if it doesn't begin with God, odds are it won't end with God. That's the point of being reborn, yeah? It's a new start, so that He is our beginning and end, our Alpha and Omega. But it's not like that with works. They can't be reborn, they either need to be continued or stopped.

But even if it did seem to do good--I learned SO many things from secular kid shows growing up, many of us did, but all I'm thinking here are two verses: 1 Corinthians 13:11, which says to put childish thinking away once you become an adult, and Luke 9:23, which says we ought to deny ourselves to take up our crosses daily should we ever pursue the Lord.

I just feel a bit... overwhelmed and outnumbered. I generally don't feel like this, but in this particular moment of weakness, I selected to seek out a second opinion even though the question wasn't exactly clear. It's not really clear because I'm not necessarily sure what I'm asking...

I guess the questions I could draw from all this are: (1) How does one deal with anonymity of sinful practices/pleasures? The less obvious ones. (2) How would I go about shedding light on something sinful in nature that is closely held to a person's heart if I should ever need to? And (3) .... Why is all this so difficult? Why is it so easy to care about ungodly things? I can only credit this generation for that because as far as I can tell, it's never been so uniquely easy and accessible before 'Today.' Still, all this is quite vexing, and wearing. That could be the vulnerability talking, but hey, we'll go with it. I just want some input before I throw my head against the wall sweatdrop

For the believers who say, “it's just a game, I'm not literally doing it; it's just a show, they're not literally doing it, no one is physically getting hurt” you have to reason with them: a sinful action is a sinful action, a sinful thought is a sinful thought. All sin starts in the heart; what thoughts are ruminating in your mind and heart? What are you desiring to see happen? Is the act you're desiring to see a sin? A behavior or attitude that God condemns is not something we should be enjoying nor finding delight in (profane speech, unlawful killing/unlawful violence, blasphemy, theft, adultery, greed, cross-dressing, etc), even in thought.

The very thought of committing the sin (or the thought of another comitting the sin) should repulse you, but you're finding enjoyment in it, spending hours feeding your eyes (or mind's eye) with the act for the sake of enjoying it. Something is wrong there. Your heart is not agreeing with His—unless the person is watching or playing the game with a critical eye to expose the sins going on there (to help those who have eyes but cannot see). But at that point, it's not a “past time”, it's spiritual warfare, quite exhausting, and painful to sit through. Not enjoyment.

For example, people beating other people up, senselessly, for mere entertainment is a sin / a transgression of God's Law; the only allowable circumstances for violence against people is if you're protecting someone from a harm (the person is a murderer, an adulterer, someone leading people into idolatry, etc; thus, the person getting beat up / stoned to death / killed is committing a sin worthy of death because they're leading others into detriment); God does not approve of acts of violence against people for mere competition (which is the pride talking; let's see who is stronger, I trained better, I'm more skillful, seeking to glorify-self). They're not protecting anyone from harm with that type of violence. Ergo, it is sin. So, "past times" like enjoying a mixed martial arts competition? people beating each other to a bloody pulp just to see who is stronger or who will win? not that they're protecting the nation from evil people or harm? There's nothing godly there. Expose it.

Same with animals: whether in a cartoon, an online game, or in real life: the thought of provoking animals into a hostile state, so they fight each other (or you), for mere entertainment, for prestige-seeking, or for material gain—is sin. The only time violence against animals is approved of, by God, is when the animal takes the life of a human being (thus kill it; it is justice), killing an animal to eat, or the animal is a sacrifice—not all animals are acceptable either, and if a person sacrifices the acceptable animal in a disobedient way, then God considers them guilty of bloodshed [murder]: I covered this in [The Spirit of Pokémon] thread with bible verses; I even provided an online conversation of what appears to be unbelievers joking around about how similar Pokemon is to a condemnable act IRL (I also exposed the hypocrisy people show when the very same premise is given realistic imagery in a different gaming franchise). We are without excuse; our conscience condemns us—if it hasn't turned reprobate. Whether you write up an explanation online, or walk them through the logic in real life in conversation, the point is to communicate why it is sin. This in spirit is no different than doing that in real life, because of how it makes you feel, and the idea/behavior/attitude you are showing approval of.

Ask believers to analyze what mood the game puts them in, what sinful behavior does it normalize for them so that they don't see it is as sin anymore (whether acts of violence for mere sport, or sorcery, confiding in amulets for power, or normalizing thoughts of reincarnation like it's the truth or a thought that should be enjoyed, etc). It is still a sin in God's eyes; there should be no approval of it. What attitudes does the entertainment nourish in us to have (greed, covetousness, gotta catch em' all-mentality, otaku/obsessive-collecting, never satisfied with what we have)? Are we conditioning ourselves, by repetitively committing the act in game, to accept sin and sinful attitudes? Intellectually, we may say we are not be approving of the sin, but on a heart level, yes, we start desiring to watch someone commit the sin—in game, in a cartoon, in a show, what have you, in the arena of the mind or in front of our eyes. So, confront it like any other transgression of God's commands.

If the person has a humble attitude that wants to please God and walk in obedience to God, then you won't have to fight too much against them. If they're fleshly, yeah it'll be verbal warfare, expect it (especially if they assume to know where you're going with your logic and thus interrupt, don't let you speak / refuse to listen, or start twisting what you say in order to be able to fight against it, or get angry and raise their voice to cut you off, etc). Don't let that intimidate you though.

Go in with prayer, and, like others have mentioned, with the word of God:

• 1 John 5:16 (NIV)
  
  16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.
  
  
• 2 Corinthians 10:4-5 (NIV)
  
  4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
  

Try to submit their thoughts to Christ / to the word of God, so that they turn from their wicked ways. But if they refuse, then separate.

Verses that address how to confront fellow believers in sin and how to relate to them if they refuse to repent:

• Isaiah 58:1 (NIV)
  
  58 “Shout it aloud, do not hold back.
      Raise your voice like a trumpet.
  Declare to my people their rebellion
      and to the descendants of Jacob their sins.
  
  
• Galatians 6:1 (NIV)
  
  6 Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.
  
  
• Luke 17:3 (NIV)
  
  3 So watch yourselves.
  
  “If your brother or sister[a] sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them.
  
  Footnotes:
  
  a. Luke 17:3 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman.
  
  
  
• Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)
  
  15 “If your brother or sister[a] sins,[b] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
  
  Footnotes:
  
  a. Matthew 18:15 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35.
  b. Matthew 18:15 Some manuscripts sins against you
  c. Matthew 18:16 Deut. 19:15
  
  
  
• Titus 3:10 (NIV)
  
  10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.
  
  
• 2 John 1:10 (NIV)
  
  10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.
  
  
• Romans 16:17 (NIV)
  
  17 I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 5:11 (NIV)
  
  11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
  
  Footnotes:
  
  a. 1 Corinthians 5:11 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a believer, whether man or woman, as part of God’s family; also in 8:11, 13.
  
  
  
• 1 Corinthians 5:12-13 (NIV)
  
  12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[a]
  
  Footnotes:
  
  a. 1 Corinthians 5:13 Deut. 13:5; 17:7; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21,24; 24:7
  
  
• Revelation 2:18-23 (NIV)
  
  18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
  
  These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
  
  20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

So if they refuse the correction, after two to three confrontations, leave them be. Have no close buddy-buddy, chummy-chummy, relationship with them. Hand them over to their sin. We must separate so that their sin does not rub off on us (or on others), nor mislead others into thinking that we approve of people who behave like that, speak like that, or think like that. God will send judgment on them; do not be so integrally-yoked in their life to the point that, if God sends a calamity on them, then you will feel the effects of the judgment, or get roped into saving them when it is actually God's discipline on them. He will attack you for trying to help them / save them from it (i.e. the unequally yoked example of idolatrous King Ahab [King of Israel] and righteous King Jehosaphat [King of Judah] 1 Kings 22 or God sending Jehu as judgment against the house of Ahab [King of Israel], but Ahaziah [King of Judah] and his family getting hit too for being yoked to them [2 Kings 10]. They're all Israelites (brothers in the faith of the one true God), set-apart to YHWH. But some of them are idolatrous. They will suffer: either the natural consequences of their sin, or a humiliating calamity from God for refusing to repent and refusing to agree with Him. If you stay yoked to such believers, the easier it is to be contaminated by their idolatrous practices / idolatrous beliefs, and you will be in the midst of their judgment when God sends it.

God's main modes of attacking are four:

1. sword [attacks from the enemy, literal people who oppose you with violence, or even demons who attack you with violence, or people attacking you with the sword of God, His words, be it a fellow believer or an atheist],

2. pestilence [lingering diseases, fevers, boils and itch, literally, or dis-ease, such as being filled with anxiety, no calm],

3. scarcity of food [literally, their eating situation becomes restricted, or spiritually: God will stop giving them revelation, and cut off the supply of spiritual bread]

4. sending wild beasts to attack them [literally, animals / infestations of insects attacking them or on a more spiritual note, natural circumstances inundating them, working against them, devouring them and what belongs to them]).

• Ezekiel 14:21 (NIV)
  
  21 “For this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How much worse will it be when I send against Jerusalem my four dreadful judgments—sword and famine and wild beasts and plague—to kill its men and their animals!
  
  
• 1 Peter 4:17 (NIV)
  
  17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?
  
  
• 1 Timothy 1:20 (NIV)
  
  20 Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme.

Believers will either be rebuked by His watchmen/prophets, fellow human beings who believe and obey God, OR God will rebuke them Himself (or with other spirits): and when it is God doing the rebuking, it's not a mere word of warning to turn away from sin (that's what His human servants do). When God rebukes, it's with action, disaster, affliction, to humiliate you, make you powerless, and turn you back into humble agreement with Him. So, if the fellow Christian refuses to acknowledge sin or refuses to acknowledge truth, after two to three confrontations, let them be. Let God deal with them. Maybe He'll send you back to them at a later time. I can't recall how many times YHWH sent Ezekiel against his fellow Israelites / fellow people in covenant with YHWH (who are suppose to be set-apart from the world's ways, but had they been doing so obediently, they wouldn't need correction). In certain circumstances, YHWH will even send you to fellow believers despite YHWH fully knowing that they will not submit to the truth.

• Ezekiel 3:7-9 (NIV)
  
  7 But the people of Israel are not willing to listen to you because they are not willing to listen to me, for all the Israelites are hardened and obstinate. 8 But I will make you as unyielding and hardened as they are. 9 I will make your forehead like the hardest stone, harder than flint. Do not be afraid of them or terrified by them, though they are a rebellious people.”

But your job in such a case is not necessarily to convince every one of them (or any of them), but to eliminate all possible excuse that they didn't hear the truth. God did not entrap them in lies with no way of escape. They willfully rejected the truth, which He sent to them in a very legible, easy to understand manner. He sent His prophets. If they choose to die, then they die; if they choose to be humiliated by God, then they will be humiliated by God. But their demise is not your fault.

• Ezekiel 3:19 (NIV)
  
  19 But if you do warn the wicked person and they do not turn from their wickedness or from their evil ways, they will die for their sin; but you will have saved yourself.

And dying could mean two things: whether God literally kills someone or puts them through so much embarrassment and loss, that it makes them feel like they're dying (they lose their good reputation, lose all their friends, lose their health, lose access to the temple, their idols are exposed for how gross and/or useless they are, etc...). In the past, God would send enemy nations to leave Jerusalem in ruins literally, but He can still ruin our lives / leave our lives in ruins by other means (the sword, scarcity of food, wild animals and pestilence/plague all have spiritual applications beyond the literal, as I covered above; but if we reject all that tame correction, that's when God starts sending literal attacks of sword, famine, beasts, and plague to literally kill people off the face of the planet, or remove them from His other believers by force because their idolatry / deviations from the truth are infecting / could infect His other believers).

• Ezekiel 14:9-11 (NIV)
  
  9 “‘And if the prophet is enticed to utter a prophecy, I the Lord have enticed that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand against him and destroy him from among my people Israel. 10 They will bear their guilt—the prophet will be as guilty as the one who consults him. 11 Then the people of Israel will no longer stray from me, nor will they defile themselves anymore with all their sins. They will be my people, and I will be their God, declares the Sovereign Lord.’”

In a nutshell, like any other sin: pray, go in with the Word of God to correct, and reason. Keep your guard up against the fear of correcting them (so, guard up against cowardice, pray for boldness), fight the provocation to anger (thus fight to stay gentle and pray to stay gentle), and keep your guard up against falling into their erroneous premise (i.e. they set up an example or argument that you're not even addressing; if you fall into their trap and their wording, you'll be saying something you weren't even condemning in the first place). You need to stay sharp and alert if you're going in to correct them. And of course, don't underestimate prayer. The majority of the verses are about correcting/confrontation, but prayer is also an element in all this.  

[Tantei_Saru3]

Thank you everyone, this is a big help. I think it's great that you guys can just pull this stuff out... even though it feels like Cris may have copy/pasted? I don't know, but I still think it's cool regardless, haha. Thanks again 3nodding