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 Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 9:02 am
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Posted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:44 pm
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Garland-Green Do God have angels report to Him what is happening on earth? If yes, do we know why he would use angels in this way being omnipresent?
Are you perhaps asking because of Matthew 18:10?
Matthew 18:10 (NIV)
10 “See that you do not despise one of these little ones. For I tell you that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father in heaven.
I find this verse very odd. Why not threaten, "do not despise one of these little ones because my Father is always watching"? instead of "their angels always see the face of my Father in heaven"? This verse seems to suggest that the angels are watching. The angels tell on us when we mistreat those who belong to God / those who are on Team God. That the angels "always see" His face means they're always in communication with God, firsthand?
Unless the word "angel" here is somehow being used to refer to a spiritual part of the human (the human's angel / spirit? @_@? so the very spirit of the human is view-able to God at all times?). Ergo, God is not using angels to relay information, as if they were an entity different than the human. It is a part of the human, the thoughts of the human. question
Why my mind even ventures to go there:
When the believers thought Peter was dead, and some girl came back saying that Peter was the one knocking on the door, they responded, it's just "his angel" (?!?!?) Are they saying it's the angel who protects / serves Peter? or that an aspect of Peter's being came to visit?
Acts 12:14-16 (NIV)
14 When she recognized Peter’s voice, she was so overjoyed she ran back without opening it and exclaimed, “Peter is at the door!”
15 “You’re out of your mind,” they told her. When she kept insisting that it was so, they said, “It must be his angel.”
16 But Peter kept on knocking, and when they opened the door and saw him, they were astonished.
Peter wasn't actually dead, hence the astonishment, but they either thought that:
(A) Peter's angel = an angel assigned to Peter by God to report things about him and protect him, took on Peter's appearance to let them know Peter is dead?
Or
(B) Peter's angel = dead Peter's disembodied soul (or spirit)?
If we can assess which one of those is correct, and how it applies to Acts 12:15 and in Matthew 18:10, then I think we'll have an answer to your question.
If (A): then the "angel" is a celestial being, with his own personality, totally unrelated to the human in Matthew 18:10 and Acts 12:15. The angel is an entity who, aside from giving revelation to human beings, is the one who reports to God / relays information to God about His little ones being mistreated.
If (B): then the "angel" is a part of the human being—some weird (to us) way of saying "the human's spirit". God doesn't need an angel to report things to Him. He sees what's going on in the human spirit, but the thought has to get to Him; the thought "travels" to Him? ergo message in flight (angel)?
I'm leaning towards (B) "angel" being the aspect of the human being in those two verses. And only in those two verses (or verses that sound like them).
Because, at other times, I'm like, "no, angels are definitely a class of their own".
Psalm 8:4-5 (NIV)
4 what is mankind that you are mindful of them,
human beings that you care for them?[a]
5 You have made them[b] a little lower than the angels[c]
and crowned them[d] with glory and honor.
Footnotes:
a. Psalm 8:4 Or what is a human being that you are mindful of him, / a son of man that you care for him?
b. Psalm 8:5 Or him
c. Psalm 8:5 Or than God
d. Psalm 8:5 Or him
Unless, as the footnote suggests, the word "elohim" is actually reference to God Himself and not angels. So then, mankind is made a little lower than God. o_O? Ah, the joys of the ambiguous word "elohim", lol.
"Elohim" has a load of applications. It seems to refer to any and all entities that are alive and cognizant, but that are without a carnal body (thus the word "elohim" gets applied to demons even i.e. Deuteronomy 32:17).
Deuteronomy 32:17 (KJV)
17 They sacrificed unto devils, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not.
The word "elohim" gets applied to angels as well [concordance entry - H430], and even idols (Leviticus 19:4). But even if the idol is an inanimate object, the demon being worshiped through the idol (or for inhabiting the idol) is not inanimate, but animate (thus alive?). Demons are spirits, albeit unclean spirits, but spirits nonetheless. And they move, think, and speak. eek
Where I am going with this: maybe "angel" is a vague word like "elohim" and we haven't captured its full meaning yet, in all its various expressions. But whatever the case, even if "angel" is a reference to the human spirit at times, it's still a manifestation that isn't "The Most High" and is also limited in information. Be it an angel wrapped in flesh (the spirit of a human) or an angel that has no carnal / corruptible body but comes to visit humans with messages.
That said, angels definitely exist as supernatural / "beyond-the-natural" beings in a not-related-to-humans kind of way: in the following example, the human prophet is informed by the angel of YHWH, and the angel of YHWH is informed by YHWH. So, God is the one informing the angel, not the other way around.
Zechariah 1:8-17 (WEB)
8 “I had a vision in the night, and behold,[a] a man riding on a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in a ravine; and behind him there were red, brown, and white horses. 9 Then I asked, ‘My lord, what are these?’”
The angel who talked with me said to me, “I will show you what these are.”
10 The man who stood among the myrtle trees answered, “They are the ones Yahweh has sent to go back and forth through the earth.”
11 They reported to Yahweh’s angel who stood among the myrtle trees, and said, “We have walked back and forth through the earth, and behold, all the earth is at rest and in peace.”
12 Then Yahweh’s angel replied, “O Yahweh of Armies, how long will you not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which you have had indignation these seventy years?”
13 Yahweh answered the angel who talked with me with kind and comforting words. 14 So the angel who talked with me said to me, “Proclaim, saying, ‘Yahweh of Armies says: “I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy. 15 I am very angry with the nations that are at ease; for I was but a little displeased, but they added to the calamity.” 16 Therefore Yahweh says: “I have returned to Jerusalem with mercy. My house shall be built in it,” says Yahweh of Armies, “and a line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem.”’
17 “Proclaim further, saying, ‘Yahweh of Armies says: “My cities will again overflow with prosperity, and Yahweh will again comfort Zion, and will again choose Jerusalem.”’”
It doesn't seem like the angel of YHWH then reported to YHWH, but he just assumed YHWH knew what was happening and started complaining about it. So, YHWH knows what's happening and merely sent the horseman for verification's sake? To establish the matter by two to three witnesses? Have the angels informed—who are lower than Him (the Most High who IS omniscient). YHWH comforts the angel who is either grieving (or freaking out? impatiently waiting for vengeance?) upon being informed by the horseman of the situation (everyone's chilling, relaxing, while the people of Judah are being oppressed—still—because you're still angry at them). The angel in this case is being informed by YHWH. YHWH already knows.
So, yeah, "angel" gets applied in the way we normally think. But maybe there's more to the concept of angel" (αγγελος) than we think, just like there's more to the word "elohim" (אלוה) than most people ever realize (gods, idols, demons, angels, dead Samuel, even the Most High all get called "elohim"). And by more to the word angel, I'm saying maybe it has an application that refers to the human spirit, like this:
1 Corinthians 2:11 (NIV)
11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
Though angels definitely exist as intelligent, thinking, feeling, self-aware servants, not just mere thought/thought-relayer/vision-relayer:
Hebrews 1:14 (NIV)
14 Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
Sometimes I wonder if we're all just living cameras for God's eyes to look through. We're not God, we're His creations. Just like a video camera is a creation of man, and is not man himself. But man uses a video camera to view things at certain angles, to zoom in really close, limit information. Man sees things better than the camera sometimes; our eyes capture more than a wide angle lens attachment, without distortion. Likewise, YHWH sees more than His creation, but He uses His creations to see things through different perspectives, when He wants to limit information. And uses His other limited creations to inform other limited creations of things because they are limited in awareness to some degree, and get distressed when they can't see the big picture.
I think God answered the question just now. The answer is yes. |
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:54 pm
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Garland-Green Thank you for the answer. I was asking because I have an uncle who say rather outrageous things and one of them was that UFO's are mechanical machines (nut and bolts) angel are using to spying on us for God. Recent examples; "the Antichrist is a man uploaded into a machine." "God is not on the Internet, only the Devil." Just trying to sort through what he is saying and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Well, to help you sort through what he is saying:
First, angels using "nut-and-bolt machines to spy on us" sounds like the plot from "The Day the Earth Stood Still" (200 cool . The film takes inspiration from the bible, but explains everything through worldly vocabulary (non-human / other-worldly "technology" attacks mankind and non-human / other-worldly beings are the true owners of the planet). It has a scene where the animals are being taken into this giant spherical thing before a flood hits (a la Noah's ark). An alien (other-worldly creature) visits earth in a human body to warn the earth of the upcoming destruction. And some giant robots zap / smite people if they have evil intent. I saw a chunk of the movie a few years back (so, I'm not recalling the events chronologically).
Trailer: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970416/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_21
People are being influenced by pictures / thoughts coming from hollywood—whether they give credit to the movie or not when they talk about the concept, if they even know that it came from a movie, but the thoughts get passed on. I don't know if the person who made the film is a Christian or what. But when the thought is not 100% adhering to biblical truth, it will mislead—and this film is misleading.
In relation to the movie, and thoughts that echo that kind of reasoning: people ascribe machine-like attributes to creatures who demonstrate advanced / beyond the natural abilities (because WE would need machines in order to imitate the same action in the natural: WE need nut-and-bolt cameras to be aware of different places and capture different angles of an event at the same time. WE need nut-and-bolt tools to keep organized records and document lengthy amounts of detailed information. But what makes them think that spirits need machines in order to do this? They're assuming it's not the spirit themselves, a living creature, with the natural ability to do something—an ability that God created them to have, especially without the limitations of a carnal body.
For instance, in our mind/psyche/soul, we can picture things realistically, vividly, immediately, but to draw it out in the natural, with our flesh, requires tools and time—and we need to do so because we can't directly communicate things mind to mind. I can't give you a vision in a dream; I have to describe it or draw it. But spirits aren't limited like that. They can give you a vision in the mind, and the vision can be as realistic as anything else we encounter through our senses in waking life.
Revelation 1:1-2 (NIV)
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 22:1 (NIV)
22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Ezekiel 3:3 (NIV)
3 Then he said to me, “Son of man, eat this scroll I am giving you and fill your stomach with it.” So I ate it, and it tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth.
Ezekiel 1:24 (NIV)
24 When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty,[a] like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings.
Footnotes:
a. Ezekiel 1:24 Hebrew Shaddai
Accurate testimony-giving without machines.
Spirit to spirit communication requires no tools. Machines are tools. Angels (spirits) don't need machines to gather information and take it to God—Who is also spirit. They do spirit to spirit communication. Just by being present in a situation, and witnessing what's happening with their eyes, their witness / their testimony / their angle is given to God. We—both human and angel alike—are just further witnesses to what God already knows happened / is happening / will happen. It all gets recorded for validation's and justice's sake, informing other limited creatures of the evidence. Not because He didn't know.
Second, about antichrist being a man uploaded into machine... two things: (A) anything that denies the Father and the Son is antichrist, so no problem there (1 John 2:22); (B) is he referring to the beasts...?
Revelation 13:15 (NIV)
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
The image (the idol), the thing made by human hands, was given life and and the image could speak—an image/idol is killing people seemingly out of its own will or the will of the one in whose image it was made in.
A.K.A. Giving life (breath) to something artifical?
artificial
adjective ar·ti·fi·cial ˌär-tə-ˈfi-shəl
Simple Definition of artificial
: not natural or real : made, produced, or done to seem like something natural
: not happening or existing naturally : created or caused by people
: not sincere
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial
Idols are artificial, not the sincere reality of what or who the object represents. This idol / image is not the first beast himself, but a mere image of the first beast, yet it is given the breath of life and the ability to speak. Clone? Artifical intelligence made in the likeness of someone who was living in the past. Thus not being a real man, just a moving image / robot of a man that people worship—and who demands our worship or we die.
I could see that happening. Time will tell.
Third, about God not being on the internet... emotion_sweatdrop
Matthew 18:20 (NIV)
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
He is wherever His creations are.
Quote: I had a lengthy talk to him about speaking in tongues because he made claims that people who do not speak in tongues are not baptized in the Spirit (not Spirit filled). I don't seem to be able to convince him that it is one of many gift, not the THE defining gift. The logic he used was that because all his friends speak in tongue and are Spirit filled (because he can sense if someone is Spirit filled he claims, just by sitting next to them) that means that to be Spirit filled you have to speak tongues. According to him I am a carnal Christian because I have not spoken in tongues and because according to him, I neglect God in taking care of my sick wife first and don't put God first in not going to the same congregations and meetings he does. To me this goes to show that there is a lot of unhealthy confusion going on in many congregations, where unsanctioned standards are made that make other Christians second rate Christians. I am not sure I would want to attend congregations where this is encouraged.
I don't attend them either. A little leaven leavens the whole bunch. John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit since birth and he showed no miraculous signs whatsoever (Luke 1:15-17; John 10:41). The real evidence of being Spirit-filled is a mind and nature that agrees with God—one that sincerely hates everything He calls sin, and loves everything He considers righteous. Thus repents / turns away from evil behavior and thoughts from the heart. Such a Spirit-filled person uses the Holy Spirit to crucify the old nature, put it to death, to walk in Christ's nature not the flesh's sinful desires.
Loving God more than family means agreeing with God's commands even if it brings animosity from your family against you, and ostracizes you from them. Not that you don't take care of your spouse when they fall sick. As far as biblical holy convocations go, when the distance is too great to travel, or people become unclean, the people can't attend. For example, people who were outside of Israel (or unclean due to a dead body) during the Passover didn't partake of the passover sacrifice with everybody else—they would have to postpone it and wait until a month later and then partake (i.e. Numbers 9; it's the only one of God's sabbaths that has a makeup date because to not partake of the passover sacrifice would cut one off from Israel—native-born and foreigner residing among them alike; just like not partaking of Christ, our Passover Lamb, leaves us under condemnation, not under protection / left out of salvation); but their absence from such a highly esteemed holy convocation, in YHWH's eyes, didn't make them carnal. Uncleanness and great distance is a legitimate excuse not to attend a holy convocation because you can infect other people, and it actually becomes a labor, not rest, to physically move / attend—defeating the purpose of the Sabbath in the first place (to rest from one's labors). And if the congregation itself is unclean, full of malice and the leaven of the Pharisees, then you'll be the one infected / leavened for attending. Thus, defeating the purpose of a holy convocation: to guard against the worldly leaven, the self-imposed traditions of the world that nullify God's divine revelation. Encourage you in the words of God.
When we don't submit to every word that comes out of the mouth of God, that's when things get unstable. :[ It's actually when believers ignore the details of YHWH's Law that things start lacking compassion.
P.S. - I recommend reading Numbers 9 fully to understand the concept. Now that I mention the Passover though, I created a thread explaining it (and its fulfillments) here: [Passover & Festival of Unleavened Bread]. I think that's why some believers of the Pharisee sect believed that Gentiles had to be circumcised in order to be saved: because the Passover sacrifice is what saved people from God's wrath, and in order to partake of the Passover commemoration—whether foreigner residing amongst them (thus grafted in) or native-born—they had to be circumcised to eat of the Passover Lamb. But like I explained earlier in the [Why Was Timothy Circumcised?] thread and in the Passover thread I linked to above, the circumcision of the fleshly nature is what the physical circumcision was prophesying. Being saved is to be set free from the dominion of the fleshly nature. Fleshly nature gets cut off in Christ. ^_^
I just pray that wherever someone professes faith in Christ, that they be moved to spend more time in the word, less time on entertainment, or things that hinder their walk in truth, so that they notice these details firsthand, and thus all unsound logic be eradicated from the body. Deviating thoughts and doctrines are so frustrating gonk |
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Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:46 pm
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cristobela Garland-Green Thank you for the answer. I was asking because I have an uncle who say rather outrageous things and one of them was that UFO's are mechanical machines (nut and bolts) angel are using to spying on us for God. Recent examples; "the Antichrist is a man uploaded into a machine." "God is not on the Internet, only the Devil." Just trying to sort through what he is saying and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
First, angels using "nut-and-bolt machines to spy on us" sounds like the plot from "The Day the Earth Stood Still" (200 cool . The film takes inspiration from the bible, but explains everything through worldly vocabulary (non-human / other-worldly "technology" attacks mankind and non-human / other-worldly beings are the true owners of the planet). It has a scene where the animals are being taken into this giant spherical thing before a flood hits (a la Noah's ark). An alien (other-worldly creature) visits earth in a human body to warn the earth of the upcoming destruction. And some giant robots zap / smite people if they have evil intent. I saw a chunk of the movie a few years back (so, I'm not recalling the events chronologically).
Trailer: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970416/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_21
People are being influenced by pictures / thoughts coming from hollywood—whether they give credit to the movie or not when they talk about the concept, if they even know that it came from a movie, but the thoughts get passed on. I don't know if the person who made the film is a Christian or what. But when the thought is not 100% adhering to biblical truth, it will mislead—and this film is misleading.
In relation to the movie, and thoughts that echo that kind of reasoning: people ascribe machine-like attributes to creatures who demonstrate advanced / beyond the natural abilities (because WE would need machines in order to imitate the same action in the natural: WE need nut-and-bolt cameras to be aware of different places and capture different angles of an event at the same time. WE need nut-and-bolt tools to keep organized records and document lengthy amounts of detailed information. But what makes them think that spirits need machines in order to do this? They're assuming it's not the spirit themselves, a living creature, with the natural ability to do something—an ability that God created them to have, especially without the limitations of a carnal body.
For instance, in our mind/psyche/soul, we can picture things realistically, vividly, immediately, but to draw it out in the natural, with our flesh, requires tools and time—and we need to do so because we can't directly communicate things mind to mind. I can't give you a vision in a dream; I have to describe it or draw it. But spirits aren't limited like that. They can give you a vision in the mind, and the vision can be as realistic as anything else we encounter through our senses in waking life.
Revelation 1:1-2 (NIV)
1 The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John, 2 who testifies to everything he saw—that is, the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 22:1 (NIV)
22 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life, as clear as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Ezekiel 3:3 (NIV)
3 Then he said to me, “Son of man, eat this scroll I am giving you and fill your stomach with it.” So I ate it, and it tasted as sweet as honey in my mouth.
Ezekiel 1:24 (NIV)
24 When the creatures moved, I heard the sound of their wings, like the roar of rushing waters, like the voice of the Almighty,[a] like the tumult of an army. When they stood still, they lowered their wings.
Footnotes:
a. Ezekiel 1:24 Hebrew Shaddai
Accurate testimony-giving without machines.
Spirit to spirit communication requires no tools. Machines are tools. Angels (spirits) don't need machines to gather information and take it to God—Who is also spirit. They do spirit to spirit communication. Just by being present in a situation, and witnessing what's happening with their eyes, their witness / their testimony / their angle is given to God. We—both human and angel alike—are just further witnesses to what God already knows happened / is happening / will happen. It all gets recorded for validation's and justice's sake, informing other limited creatures of the evidence. Not because He didn't know.
Second, about antichrist being a man uploaded into machine... two things: (A) anything that denies the Father and the Son is antichrist, so no problem there (1 John 2:22); (B) is he referring to the beasts...?
Revelation 13:15 (NIV)
15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.
The image (the idol), the thing made by human hands, was given life and and the image could speak—an image/idol is killing people seemingly out of its own will or the will of the one in whose image it was made in.
A.K.A. Giving life (breath) to something artifical?
artificial
adjective ar·ti·fi·cial ˌär-tə-ˈfi-shəl
Simple Definition of artificial
: not natural or real : made, produced, or done to seem like something natural
: not happening or existing naturally : created or caused by people
: not sincere
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/artificial
Idols are artificial, not the sincere reality of what or who the object represents. This idol / image is not the first beast himself, but a mere image of the first beast, yet it is given the breath of life and the ability to speak. Clone? Artifical intelligence made in the likeness of someone who was living in the past. Thus not being a real man, just a moving image / robot of a man that people worship—and who demands our worship or we die.
I could see that happening. Time will tell.
Third, about God not being on the internet... emotion_sweatdrop
Matthew 18:20 (NIV)
20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”
He is wherever His creations are. Quote: I had a lengthy talk to him about speaking in tongues because he made claims that people who do not speak in tongues are not baptized in the Spirit (not Spirit filled). I don't seem to be able to convince him that it is one of many gift, not the THE defining gift. The logic he used was that because all his friends speak in tongue and are Spirit filled (because he can sense if someone is Spirit filled he claims, just by sitting next to them) that means that to be Spirit filled you have to speak tongues. According to him I am a carnal Christian because I have not spoken in tongues and because according to him, I neglect God in taking care of my sick wife first and don't put God first in not going to the same congregations and meetings he does. To me this goes to show that there is a lot of unhealthy confusion going on in many congregations, where unsanctioned standards are made that make other Christians second rate Christians. I am not sure I would want to attend congregations where this is encouraged.
Loving God more than family means agreeing with God's commands even if it brings animosity from your family against you, and ostracizes you from them. Not that you don't take care of your spouse when they fall sick. As far as biblical holy convocations go, when the distance is too great to travel, or people become unclean, the people can't attend. For example, people who were outside of Israel (or unclean due to a dead body) during the Passover didn't partake of the passover sacrifice with everybody else—they would have to postpone it and wait until a month later and then partake (i.e. Numbers 9; it's the only one of God's sabbaths that has a makeup date because to not partake of the passover sacrifice would cut one off from Israel—native-born and foreigner residing among them alike; just like not partaking of Christ, our Passover Lamb, leaves us under condemnation, not under protection / left out of salvation); but their absence from such a highly esteemed holy convocation, in YHWH's eyes, didn't make them carnal. Uncleanness and great distance is a legitimate excuse not to attend a holy convocation because you can infect other people, and it actually becomes a labor, not rest, to physically move / attend—defeating the purpose of the Sabbath in the first place (to rest from one's labors). And if the congregation itself is unclean, full of malice and the leaven of the Pharisees, then you'll be the one infected / leavened for attending. Thus, defeating the purpose of a holy convocation: to guard against the worldly leaven, the self-imposed traditions of the world that nullify God's divine revelation. Encourage you in the words of God.
When we don't submit to every word that comes out of the mouth of God, that's when things get unstable. :[ It's actually when believers ignore the details of YHWH's Law that things start lacking compassion.
P.S. - I recommend reading Numbers 9 fully to understand the concept. Now that I mention the Passover though, I created a thread explaining it (and its fulfillments) here: [Passover & Festival of Unleavened Bread]. I think that's why some believers of the Pharisee sect believed that Gentiles had to be circumcised in order to be saved: because the Passover sacrifice is what saved people from God's wrath, and in order to partake of the Passover commemoration—whether foreigner residing amongst them (thus grafted in) or native-born—they had to be circumcised to eat of the Passover Lamb. But like I explained earlier in the [Why Was Timothy Circumcised?] thread and in the Passover thread I linked to above, the circumcision of the fleshly nature is what the physical circumcision was prophesying. Being saved is to be set free from the dominion of the fleshly nature. Fleshly nature gets cut off in Christ. ^_^
I just pray that wherever someone professes faith in Christ, that they be moved to spend more time in the word, less time on entertainment, or things that hinder their walk in truth, so that they notice these details firsthand, and thus all unsound logic be eradicated from the body. Deviating thoughts and doctrines are so frustrating gonk
Quote: Not that you don't take care of your spouse when they fall sick.
Precisely! He is attempting to encourage me to neglect my wife's health and well-being (my wife has chronic pain, where she can barely make food for herself. Most of the time I cook and clean. Take care of the pets etc.) in favor of attending meetings, which he sees as more Christian than taking care of your own relatives. It is quite upsetting, because it is not the first time he has said it and he has even hinted at it being allowed to divorce someone preventing you from attending a Christian congregation. I am just venting I guess because I can't say this to him. He won't listen. When I try to point out where he is wrong he uses what we in Norwegian call a 'hersketeknikk or in English "Master suppression technique". Saying only those who are bad (carnal) Christians get upset with the messages he sends. It is a way of saying if you are upset it is your own fault, I haven't said anything wrong. I know I won't be able to convince him of his mistake, since he has no respect for me and he always plays the "Christians should always forgive card." Which we should, but I feel he is hiding behind it when making mistakes and trampling on people's feelings without having to change or consider what you are saying does to people. Having the same debates over and over is very exhausting. Perhaps I should just pray that God who is the only one able to open eyes will make him see what he is saying, and how destructive it really is instead of engaging him in debate.
Thank you for the encouragement, and for the tip on Numbers 9. I appreciate it more than you can imagine.
Quote: And if the congregation itself is unclean, full of malice and the leaven of the Pharisees, then you'll be the one infected / leavened for attending. Thus, defeating the purpose of a holy convocation: to guard against the worldly leaven, the self-imposed traditions of the world that nullify God's divine revelation.
I also believe that attending would put your stamp of approval on what they are doing and saying. |
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