[S] Streamlining Familiars

[Kamiki]

I think its SUPER AWESOME that familiars have so many more options and such now than they used to, and I'm 110% on board. However, I'm a bit boggled by how arbitrary some variants are "mutants" and some are not.

Like, why is the cobra variant of the snake a "mutant" but the songbird/hummingbird/quetzal versions are not? Why is changing a snake from a "rattlesnake" not a mutation, but changing it into a "cobra" is? I've also seen one person get knocked off the list for customs for asking for a "quetzal" when she really wanted the songbird variant (which was allowed in that custom opening) when the colorist (understandably) thought she meant the quetzalcoatl version of the snake, which wasn't allowed in that opening...

Same with the pea-condors and such (winged wolves, hawk tails, squirrels/groundhogs, etc).

Also, there doesn't seem to be any real reason for the rarity of the familiars other than the price, which is kind of moot at this point anyway with how Gaia's inflation has been. Most people tip significantly more than they are "worth" anyway, and of course the customs are rarely, if ever, divided between the different rarity types.

Considering all the different breeds, variations, etc... I suggest the shop reconsider its whole rarity/mutant issue with familiars. I think it would be much more easy on both the colorists and the customers to either more clearly delineate what is a "mutant" familiar vs what is just a variant (for example, I can understand changing a fox so much that its now a "corgi" being a mutant more than making a snake base a "mutant" for being a cobra) or just get rid of the rarity/variant system alltogether and just having "edited" and "nonedited" familiars.

EDIT:

Sabin suggested instead of "Mutant" and not, having "Fantasy" and regular familiars. I think this makes a lot of sense as well smile (see next post for more details on that suggestion)  

[Sabin Duvert]

Yeah, the more I think about this, the more I agree with it:

A lot of what is set up for the familiar pricing and rarity structure is just archaic/holdover from the shop.

For example, viewing the familiar system through the eyes of someone new to the shop, I can see how it would be baffling how there are several non-mutant variants of species (squirrels/prairie dogs, rattlesnakes/snakes, foxes/coyotes etc) but other real-world species variants are "mutants".

Likewise, with the lack of breakdown of slot-types in familiars, and with the gold inflation being ridiculous, I think that maybe a good solution would just be two categories:

Real world animals (Regular slots)

Fantasy animals ("Mutants")

Winged wolf? Fantasy.
Corgi? Real world.
Dragon-otter: Fantasy
Cobra: Real world.


Now edits and the like and custom-made breed edits, sure, that's a different thing of its own, but since there are so many variants templated now, and with the movement in the shop towards more accessibility, I think it would be great to simplify.

And edits still could go in line with the two categories above, just whether or not those edits still make it a real-world species or not. We have a bunch more familiar colorists now, and a simplified system and more accessibility seems like it would be good for everyone smile  

[Mewsings of An Angel]

I very much agree with this.
It seems silly in some aspects for things like the hood on a snake or the corgi edits for the fox, to be a "mutation" since it's really not as they exist in the real world.

Things like a bumble-mouse and a winged bunny are more understandable to be a mutation and thus be in a "mutant slot".

In fixing these things, it would eliminate a lot of hassle and confusion and help people trying for a familiar to know what to go for.  

[Pollack]

I agree with this as well!

Along with the examples everyone has said as well. I would like to bring up the corgi and the foxes. People have said before that they understand why it's a mutant just because it's changed so much from the base but...it really hasn't? I mean it seems aside from the extra fur that it has the same amount of changes to the tail and ears as the long versions do. (Course I might be bias because I adore the corgi template)

It would also really be nice to see more clarity on what a colorist is offering when they open slots. It seems that they are only allowed to do so many mutants. (Why? They take the same amount of work. You can't say it's for rarity because through breeding mutants are becoming just as common.) But they seem to be treated very rare thus not offered. Most have to ask the colorists after the shop opens if they are allowed or nor.

I show DNS doing a mutant slot in her last customs. Is this going to be the standard? Is it going to be treated sorta like the super rares in the shop?  

[Phail Ninja]

Just wanted to post some clarification (but not giving my two cents quite just yet <3)

Colourists, soquili OR familiar, are limited to opening one mutant slot per custom opening period (it used to be one every 3 openings, but this was seen as too scarce). As it is, this is really new and has only just been introduced to try and let customers get mutants, rather than only staffers being able to purchase them really, however the "one slot per custom opening" rule is there exactly to keep them more rare. Mutants are supposed to be unusual, not the standard.



Secondly, the reason why corgis and cobras and all the rest are considered mutant is not because of how much work goes into the template, but is instead based on whether that species exists in the shop setting. Soquili is set in the Americas, where there are no cobras or peacocks naturally, and certainly no corgi XD That's why those edits are considered mutants <3



Thirdly, I have started working on graphics to show all the current familiar options to try and make things clear :3 Give me a couple of days I should have a thread up for you!

 

[Twitchapher the 3rd]

Phail Ninja

Secondly, the reason why corgis and cobras and all the rest are considered mutant is not because of how much work goes into the template, but is instead based on whether that species exists in the shop setting. Soquili is set in the Americas, where there are no cobras or peacocks naturally, and certainly no corgi XD That's why those edits are considered mutants <3

(as much as I love you Phail) I do have to disagree with this point. If that were the case then a bunch of the customizable variations along with two of the normal breeds would be put under the mutation category. Chickens aren't native to the Americas, neither are goats. The lion option, the cockatoo, you could argue for the panther whether it's really a jaguar or a leopard with the later not being from the Americas.

So why can we have lions and chickens but not corgis and cobras?

Edit: Doing a little digging, rats and mice are not native to north America either. The wonder of boats.  

[Strifeling]

What Phail said is the official shop reason! <3
I'm not sure about the introduced/indigenous status of chickens (I think there were some from South America, but don't take my word for it). I think it's most likely that the goat template slipped through the cracks, since that template is so ancient (from 2009 maybe)... These are just my thoughts; not sure if this is what actually happened, but it seems likely.  

[Phail Ninja]

Twitchapher the 3rd

Phail Ninja

Secondly, the reason why corgis and cobras and all the rest are considered mutant is not because of how much work goes into the template, but is instead based on whether that species exists in the shop setting. Soquili is set in the Americas, where there are no cobras or peacocks naturally, and certainly no corgi XD That's why those edits are considered mutants <3

(as much as I love you Phail) I do have to disagree with this point. If that were the case then a bunch of the customizable variations along with two of the normal breeds would be put under the mutation category. Chickens aren't native to the Americas, neither are goats. The lion option, the cockatoo, you could argue for the panther whether it's really a jaguar or a leopard with the later not being from the Americas.

So why can we have lions and chickens but not corgis and cobras?

Edit: Doing a little digging, rats and mice are not native to north America either. The wonder of boats.

Actually! There is a breed of goats that is endemic to America, from some brief digging :3 And there is also a genus of chickens from South America, quoting wikipedia here:

Quote:

An unusual variety of chicken that has its origins in South America is the araucana, bred in southern Chile by the Mapuche people. Araucanas, some of which are tailless and some of which have tufts of feathers around their ears, lay blue-green eggs. It has long been suggested that they pre-date the arrival of European chickens brought by the Spanish and are evidence of pre-Columbian trans-Pacific contacts between Asian or Pacific Oceanic peoples, particularly the Polynesians, and South America. In 2007, an international team of researchers reported the results of analysis of chicken bones found on the Arauco Peninsula in south-central Chile. Radiocarbon dating suggested that the chickens were Pre-Columbian, and DNA analysis showed that they were related to prehistoric populations of chickens in Polynesia.[30] These results appeared to confirm that the chickens came from Polynesia and that there were transpacific contacts between Polynesia and South America before Columbus's arrival in the Americas.[31]

The lions are based off mountain lions and not leopards, from what I recall~

I'm not sure on mice, will have to do some more digging - however I know that there are quite a few native american stories involving mice so I would assume based on that they must have been there at some point? BUT I haven't read up on this quite yet

EDIT: a page of mice and rats endemic to the Americas

 

[Yumitoko II]

Twitchapher the 3rd

Phail Ninja

Secondly, the reason why corgis and cobras and all the rest are considered mutant is not because of how much work goes into the template, but is instead based on whether that species exists in the shop setting. Soquili is set in the Americas, where there are no cobras or peacocks naturally, and certainly no corgi XD That's why those edits are considered mutants <3

(as much as I love you Phail) I do have to disagree with this point. If that were the case then a bunch of the customizable variations along with two of the normal breeds would be put under the mutation category. Chickens aren't native to the Americas, neither are goats. The lion option, the cockatoo, you could argue for the panther whether it's really a jaguar or a leopard with the later not being from the Americas.

So why can we have lions and chickens but not corgis and cobras?

Edit: Doing a little digging, rats and mice are not native to north America either. The wonder of boats.

Hi, this is not originally Phail's point but one brought up by Mindsend. Me and Phail were talking to Mind about this today and this point was brought up by Mind as a reason as to why some templates are mutant despite being real life creatures.  

[mindsend]

Phail is currently working on a template guide for Familiars, and once they're all posted I'll be writing up what is and isn't a mutation.

We will be keeping Mutant slot, and will not just be making everything a non-mutant.  

[one over three]

Some stuff like how the rarities don't make much sense has come up a few times, but we've never really settled on how to address it. Honestly I think it's being glossed over a lot because of the fact that a lot of stuff is just pay what you want now anyhow... and honestly Mind & Uta have been working to address much bigger problems. (( I don't want to imply that this shouldn't be addressed, or shut this thread down in any way. I only wanted to mention much folks can reasonably do in a given time frame. uwu'' ))

I know with the peacondors part of the reason they're so rare is that they aren't an official template. My floppy feather mane had to be approved via vote before it entered general use, but the templates above haven't been through that... and probably won't. I entirely understand how this is confusing though. Hopefully Phail's thread will help?
 

[Uta]

Additionally Mind and I are in discussion on this issue at present, and will let you know what we iron out in time.

Thanks for the suggestions though! Like Maths said, it's been kind of pushed to wayside in lue of some larger shop pain points that needed addressing (internally and publicly) . But we're taking a look at this to see what we can do to iron out some kinks.

Thanks!