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 Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:49 pm
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-[Luciferianism - A controversial topic, but I am purely curious...]-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luciferianism
http://altreligion.about.com/od/alternativereligionsaz/a/How-Luciferians-Differ-From-Satanists.htm
Quote: Sometimes mistakenly associated with Satanism due to the Christian interpretation of the fallen angel, Luciferianism is a wholly different belief system and does not revere the devil figure or most characteristics typically affixed to Satan. Rather, Lucifer in this context is seen as one of many morning stars, a symbol of enlightenment, independence and human progression, and is often used interchangeably with similar figures from a range of ancient beliefs, such as the Greek titan Prometheus or the Jewish talmudic figure Lilith. They support the protection of the natural world. Both the arts and sciences are crucial to human development, and thus both are cherished. Luciferians think that humans should be focused on this life and how to make the most of it every single day. The ability to recognize both good and evil, to accept that all actions have consequences, both positive and negative, and to actively influence one's environment, is a key factor. For Luciferians, enlightenment is the ultimate goal. The basic Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshipping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential. Traditional dogma is shunned as a basis for morality on the grounds that humans should not need deities or fear of eternal punishment to distinguish right from wrong and to do good. All ideas should be tested before being accepted, and even then one should remain skeptical because knowledge and understanding are fluid. Regardless of whether Lucifer is conceived of as a deity or as a mere archetype, he is a representation of ultimate knowledge and exploration: humanity’s savior and a champion for continuing personal growth.
Quote: There are some who see Lucifer as symbolic rather than an actual being.
There are some fascinating points of view here.
(Please try to keep an open mind. It's never my intention to start an argument.)
- I am interested to see your opinions on these beliefs.
- I'm also interested in your views of Lucifer before the fall.
Thank you for taking the time to talk with me, friends! ^.^ |
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Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 10:26 pm
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Hi. Pretty brave of you to make a topic like this in a guild where the wast majority is Christian. Thank you for the question.
I don't think you can dislodge Lucifer from the only source we hear about him in, and use him as a symbol other than what that source tells us he is and be honest about it. It seems to me like somewhat of a childish thing to do: "We disregard/detest what the Bible has to say about morals, but we are going to borrow a character from there to symbolize what we believe."
Why not just call yourself and atheist? Why use what some are inevitably going to connect with the Bible and what it has to say on the topic? Unless it is only to provoke? I automatically think it is nothing but a childish response to something not agreed with.
Quote: Luciferian principles highlight truth and freedom of will, worshiping the inner self and one’s ultimate potential.
It is self worship which is a form of idolatry so it is ironic that this religion chose Lucifer the first self-worshiper for its symbol. If we are honest with ourselves we are not beings that are worthy of worship, and especially not if atheism and materialism is true.
Isaiah 14:13-15
…"But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.
Where we read about Lucifer we also read about man's enslavement to sin. What you do master you, and you can't balance the scale by doing some good and some evil. You are either good or you are evil. There is no way that man can through enlightenment in the sense that Luciferianism teaches free himself. A prisoner doesn't have the keys to his own cell door. Where there is darkness light have to come in from an external source.
Romans 6:19
I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.
John 8:34
Jesus replied, "Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.
From what I have gathered Luciferianism is an atheistic religion? It believes there are no external forces dictating morality, or leading the way?
If man is the product of chance. If we as humans are just here because of a cosmic accident - then what does good or evil matter at all? By being atheistic in its foundation Luciferianism undermines itself. It leaves itself with nothing meaningful to say on the topic of good and evil. How can we trust our ape descendent brains, a product of chance to reveal anything reasonable, any kind truth? What truth can there be if the universe has no meaning, no purpose? Something is either true or not true. You can't make up your own truth. Something either has purpose and meaning, or no purpose and no meaning. You can't assign meaning to the meaningless.
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:35 am
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:58 am
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Dragonus Luciferius Thank you very much for your input. ^.^ I was also interested in Lucifer before his fall from grace. Is it mentioned in the Bible at any point? It was something that was never answered for me as a child. Everyone would speak of Lucifer - The Fallen Angel or Lucifer - The Devil. But no one seems to have focused on him before the fall. I mean, was he always 'bitter and evil' or did it develop over time. And his relationship with God as well. Wasn't he one of God's most precious? My pastors would always shun the question, but despite how disturbing the topic may be, I feel it needs to be answered.
Ezekiel 28 is generally thought both to talk to the ruler of Tyre and Lucifer. Those verses are the only ones talking about him pre-fall that I can think of.
Ezekiel 28:12-15
“‘You were the seal of perfection,
full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.
Your settings and mountings were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.
You were on the holy mount of God;
you walked among the fiery stones.
15 You were blameless in your ways
from the day you were created
till wickedness was found in you.
No man is created blameless according to the Bible.
No man walks on the holy mount of God.
It developed because he thought he was so beautiful. He took great pride in it. He felt it made him worthy of God's position (Jude 1:6).
Ezekiel 28:17
Your heart was proud because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor. I cast you to the ground; I exposed you before kings, to feast their eyes on you. |
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:26 am
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:41 am
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Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:09 pm
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Posted: Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:24 am
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