[S] Non "Breed Specific" Fetlock Options

[.Tortured. .Pumpkin.]

Hi folks! Your resident hellion here with an itty bitty suggestion! <3
As always, please be kind and try to keep a level head, but definitely weigh in with your opinion! <3

The issue I am bringing forward today is fetlocks. It just seems very odd that they are breed specific. While I can understand that hoof shape/size/style should be breed specific for various reasons, I began wondering why it should be so with fetlocks. Drafts and warhorses have their own generic "leg feathers" (draft, warhorse), which is a great start to opening up one's options for templated fetlocks, but what if we don't like the options, or prefer another option for the specific pony we're trying for?
They are, after all, just leg hair, and an edited regular custom (or breeding) can get their very own fetlock style without being labeled as anything other than a regular, so why shouldn't that carry on to unedits?

I feel like this would open up a lot of options not only for customers, but for colorists as well! How many times has it happened to you? You get a pony, totally CC, but they won an unedited uncommon slot. Or maybe you're putting together a custom concept. Okay, no big deal, you can give them a lovely unicorn tail and wind wings, but you reaaaaaaaaaally want to give them a nice elegant set of fetlocks to pull the whole look together, but you can't because 1. it would make them a hyperhybrid, and 2. because the ones you really want to give them are... Angeni fetlocks.
You know the ones, the super flowy, pretty, all up on the ground ones. But you can only obtain this hair template by winning a mutant slot (if that pushes them into hyperhybrid) or a super rare slot. What a bummer.

With the current unedited colorists we have, who are incredibly (seriously guys, they're ridiculously) skilled, I don't feel like adding one extra template option onto a horse would be a super load of work. I mean, I've seen horses that look crazy edited, but it's just magical splicing.

Thanks so much for taking the time to read! I feel like the concept I have here is fairly straight to the point but if I left anything out/you have any questions (because I'm honestly not the best at conveying ideas) feel free to let me know! <3

Edit:
Strife has pointed out some wonderful technical issues with this idea (see her post on page 1), so perhaps it may be worth considering adding some generic fetlock templates that are not draft/warhorse for use? Obviously this would not be a priority (our poor colorists have so much on their plates already right now XD ), but it would be lovely to see some options!
We do have so many newer hair templates and wing templates and such, but who doesn't love options? XD <3  

[Teh Cheryl]

Question: Angeni are the only breed specific fetlocks, right, or are there others that I just can't think of?  

[.Tortured. .Pumpkin.]

Teh Cheryl

Question: Angeni are the only breed specific fetlocks, right, or are there others that I just can't think of?

Nope! There are Cerynei and Kirin, and possibly others. XD

Edit::
Kirin Alternates at bottom, Kirin Original
Cerynei
Angeni
And it appears as if Suti have a more ragged-looking fetlock option?  

[.Tortured. .Pumpkin.]

I see people voting no, and I'd love to know why! <3
Please don't feel as if you'll be berated or anything, we are here to talk as a community and discuss our opinions. ^__^ I don't bite, honest.  

[ProphetOfProfit]

I adore the Kirin fetlocks and would LOVE getting them on other breeds.
Please make this a thing.  

[~Twilight...Angel~]

I ADORE the idea of having the fetlocks be interchangeable! I love all the fetlocks and would enjoy getting to have them on all different breeds. Like... I don't think there are enough Soquili with fetlocks and this would open so many more style options, lol.  

[one over three]

I voted no. I misread the question. I meant yes. =w='  

[Strifeling]

My feeling is no, for a few reasons! I don't mean to be a party pooper ahhh XD

The way the templates are designed, hooves and fetlocks are integrated with each other as well as with a particular body base. Separating them manually for any specific use would be time-consuming and annoying. I'm also strongly against permanently changing up the base templates to separate every type of foot and fetlock to be "pasted" on top of the main body -- on the template files it would add even more mess with layers & folders that we don't need, especially with the alt poses. Some uniqueness of the originals may get lost if templates would get separated/redone. I also prefer working with integrated bases rather than spliced parts; it's faster, cleaner, and less of a strain on my computer.

The second reason is that I feel that the unique feet/fetlocks add a bit of "flair" to specific breeds, just a tiny thing to differentiate them more -- I love this bit of breed specificity that shows outside of obvious breed traits like horns :3

The third reason is that figuring out breed mixes (for breedings; owner's list) would be messy, especially for gen2+ and/or mixed breeds. It could also undo the purpose of some past pets made with certain fetlocks/feet with the intent of making them part of that specific breed (ex. kirin feet -- still part kirin, or up in the air?). It may also get messy in terms of what templates can be used as non-breed-specific traits vs. which ones cannot.  

[.Tortured. .Pumpkin.]

Strifeling

Not being a party pooper at all, dear! XD <3 I highly encourage all opinions!

Especially since your first one is something that non-staffers/non-colorists would never know! I've seen angeni fetlocks with other feet, as well as cerynei and kirin, so I was not aware that it would be so much work. <3

I personally disagree with the second reason, but that is my opinion, so that doesn't matter/doesn't have any technical pros/cons, it's just personal. XD

And I hadn't even thought of breedings. :0 Very valid point.

So I will update my idea: Perhaps some generic, non-draft/non-warhorse fetlock templates? That all breeds can use?  

[Strifeling]

.Tortured. .Pumpkin.

It's not necessarily so, so much work, but... To clarify, for one-time uses without separating the hooves, it's about as much work as, say, giving front feet cat paws and back feet wolf paws, or something. 8D
It's not a ridiculous amount, just a bit ehhh when you have detailed foot markings. I've done more annoying splicing of my own free will, and I'm sure most colorists have too

But if we allow it for one-time uses, we'd probably have to end up splitting up the templates, which is where most of my reluctance comes in besides the breed IDing. For the things I already mentioned (difficulty coloring with separated feet; potential template changes -- I favor alts over template replacements), but esp. file complexity. We have at least 4-5 official full-size poses for the standard body, right? And then >5 diff. fetlocks, some with unique hooves, + stand-alone files. That would mean, I don't know, a master file for one body type with 20+ different feet? Or separate files, and then breed trait files separate? There are some files that are folders on folders on folders, and thinking about making more files like those makes me go DDD: I think staff are working on streamlining, idk, now I'm just rambling


But aHhhH I didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade, just I'm not seeing how feasible it is from my own (personal/private/non-shop-endorsed) viewpoint ;w;
Again though, it's not the perspective of the shop/colorists in general, only me!


I'm in favor of more non-breed-restricted alt fetlocks! 8DDD (it'd work from the file perspective, ex. same file as alt, or on one(?) of the naked-fetlock files, and wouldn't interfere w/ breed IDing for the OL or breeding purposes)  

[Yumitoko II]

"With the current unedited colorists we have, who are incredibly (seriously guys, they're ridiculously) skilled, I don't feel like adding one extra template option onto a horse would be a super load of work. I mean, I've seen horses that look crazy edited, but it's just magical splicing. "

Splicing takes time, sometimes a little, sometimes a lot. I feel like colourists are already trying to splice body templates together to create the mixed breeds you see. I was going to say what strife said but she put it perfectly. With items it's alright, things don't always have to mesh and blend together so well but when we splice so many different body parts it's extra time and extra layers and extra folders, extra strain. Some breeds say like the suti and a bunch of others are already very folder and layer heavy and some people work on programmes like SAI that have a layer limit. When people colour or edit, unless they have a more painty style where they aim for less layers, a lot of us like to add more layers so things can be changed easily and quickly with marking colours, colour of edits or edit textures and shading so I'm a bit iffy on this just because of the strain.

If it was more simple I'd say yes since there is already a "hair is hair" policy (for head hair) and because it would be cool to have kirin fets on another breed or stuff like that without it being that breed but at the same time, I'm against it. More specifically for the Angeni fets since they are kinda special and wispy (and maaaagical...seriously though...what fetlocks in any other breed defies gravity like this? ), they are therefore very specific to the Angeni breed because of the origins of Angeni in general.

The better option would be to make templates for these or even have people donate their custom fetlocks from customs. To donate templates, you can always talk to Uta or Mind about it. If they like the idea, the templates are looked at, voted upon and fixed up if they are voted in as something that should be a stock edit in the shop. Ah lol, it's already been suggested. x'D


I think take a regular for example and then throw some cerynei fetlocks on them despite them not having that blood, everyone would think they did. I kinda like breed specific ones to be honest, it keeps them kinda special to that breed and is one of the defining traits but I'm down with the templates. biggrin  

[Uta]

My opinion is no on sharing breed specific fetlocks. The reason being is they were made specifically for a breed, and in an Angeni's case can actually dictate whether or not they might be able to be cursed. When you look at the ceyrnei fetlocks, or the angeni fetlocks, you know automatically what breeds run through their veins, even a little.

Toss angeni fetlocks on a soquili and suddenly that soquili changes. It's part of the breed base, and I think we should allow for some breeds to have specific templates.

In this case, sure, hair-is-hair, but these were made specifically for those breeds.

Now, we also have Ameh's fetlocks in the dropbox, which are a longer fetlock and people seem to forget about it. Those are generic. We do have the draft and warhorse fetlocks which also can be used on any type of soquili.

I am fine if someone wants to make a longer general use fetlock for our unedited colorists, but I am firmly against mixing up the breed-specific fetlocks. While I get we're big on sharing templates and mix-and-matching things, I also believe the shop should still adhere to some boundaries. Fetlocks may seem like a small thing but we have the ability to make or donate fetlock option; taking from the breed specific templates somehow, to me, cheapens it. The shop needs to have some rules in place -- we're pretty free-for-all as it is, but I do like having some things stay breed-specific.

At this point and time this is the first I've heard of someone wanting different fetlock options. I'm sure we can make another, longer, option in time. But I am avidly against taking from our breed specific fetlocks.

It may just be hair, but the addition of those fetlocks can change a soquili from being simply a regular with long fetlocks to suddenly a half-breed of some other-sort.