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Halloween History and the Bible

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Lady Vizsla

PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:45 pm
by Bodie Hodge

When did this holiday begin and why? How should Christians view this day in general? To understand these questions further, we need to go back to the roots of Halloween.

In the United States (and other countries), Halloween has become one of the most popular unofficial holidays. On the up side, retail sales boost the economy around this holiday.1

On the down side, the holiday has become a time of increased crime in many places (especially arson and other acts of violence) on Halloween night as well as the night before. Even the author’s house was robbed one Halloween by forced entry. So, although the retail industry loves Halloween, many police officers and insurance companies dread it! Of course, there is also a tremendous amount of occult activity associated with this holiday.

Kids and even many adults love getting dressed up for Halloween. And they love the candy, of course. It’s just innocent fun, isn’t it—or is it? But let’s think carefully and biblically about the history, nature, and impact of the holiday.

When did this holiday begin and why? Was it of pagan origins or is there something more behind Halloween history? How should Christians view this day in general? To understand these questions further, we need to go back to the roots of Halloween.

In the early 1900s, the migrating Irish and Scots brought Halloween traditions to the United States. Over time, Halloween catapulted into mainstream culture.

The holiday, though, has roots reaching much further back. Some researchers claim that the holiday can be traced back about 2,000 years to the Celts of Europe, who occupied parts of Ireland, the United Kingdom, and northern France.2 It was a pagan festival called “Samhain” (pronounced “sow-in”) that celebrated more or less the honor of the dead and involved the offering of large sacrifices of crops and animals.3

Although no original written accounts of this festival exist today from the ancient Celts, there is some reference to it in Roman records from when the Romans conquered Celtic lands around AD 43. Under Roman rule, the day of Samhain was influenced by Roman festivals of the time. The first was called “Pomona,” which was a type of harvest festival, and the next was “Feralia,” the Roman day of the dead. Interestingly, both Feralia and Samhain were festivals of the dead and celebrated at the end of October.4

Around AD 600, Pope Boniface IV created All Saints’ Day, and Pope Gregory III later moved this holiday to November 1 in an effort to give a Christian alternative to this pagan celebration.5

Christians who did not want to celebrate pagan festivals celebrated something of positive spiritual value—in this case honoring the saints and martyrs. With the overwhelming expansion of Christianity in Europe, All Saint’s Day became the dominant holiday.6

In fact, the current name of “Halloween” originates from the day before All Saint’s Day, which was called “All Hallow Evening”; this name was shortened to “All Hallow’s Eve” or “All Hallow’s Even.” The name changed over time and became “Hallowe’en.”

A couple hundred years later, the Roman Church made November 2 All Souls Day to honor the dead. This may well have been influenced by the continued persistence of the day of the dead by the ancient Irish, Scots, and others in Europe. Standing against this, many Protestant Christians celebrate October 31 as Reformation Day in honor of reformers such as Martin Luther, John Calvin, and others who spearheaded the Reformation in the 1500s.

Although many affirm that Samhain was the origin of modern-day Halloween, it is significant to note how many cultures throughout the world have celebrated a “day of the dead” (often with sacrifices), occurring at the end of summer and fall. There seem to be too many parallels to call these similar celebrations a coincidence.

For example, in the Americas there is the Mexican Day of the Dead (El Día de los Muertos) that goes back to the ancient festival of the dead celebrated by Aztecs and the more-ancient Olmec. This was likely where the Guatemalans got their Day of the Dead.

Brazilians also celebrate Finados (Day of the Dead). Bolivia has the Day of the Skulls (Día de los Natitas).7

In Asia, there are similar festivals. For example, the Chinese celebrated the Ghost Festival, which was a day to pay homage to dead ancestors. The Japanese celebrated something similar called O-bon or merely Bon. Even Vietnam has a variant of the Ghost Festival called Tet Trung Nguyen. In Korea, there is Chuseok or Hankawi, in which deceased ancestors are ritualized. In Nepal, there is the cow pilgrimage called Gia Jatra to honor the recently deceased. In the Philippines, there is the Day of the Dead (Araw ng mga Patay), where tombs are cleaned and repainted. The list goes on and on (see reference 5).

The annual Jewish holiday of the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur) is celebrated in the fall, usually September or October.8 But it is distinctly different in purpose. It is not in honor of the dead. Rather, it deals with soul searching, repentance, and is a time of great sacrifice for the sins of the people (Leviticus 23:27–2 cool . So, there is some cross over, but God instituted this date.

Though the origin of this date, specifically for the Israelites, can be traced to Moses, the day may well have been chosen by God going back to previous events, as famous Bible chronicler Archbishop Ussher pointed out (the approximate day Adam and Eve sinned, according to Ussher’s calculations, and God’s subsequent covering of their nakedness with animal skins).9

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It seems no coincidence that cultures all around the world in both present and ancient times have had a holiday when the dead were remembered and animals were sacrificed. We can make a pretty strong argument that this holiday goes back to a time when all the peoples lived together—and then they took this holiday to various parts of the world.

Otherwise, it seems strange and difficult to explain how these cultures developed celebrations that are so similar. This would likely push the true origin of “Halloween” and these other “days of the dead” to the time before the dispersion at Babel (Genesis 11), over 4,200 years ago, after which different early cultures began to vary in its practice.

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According to Archbishop Ussher, the time frame between these events was about 106 years, with the Flood ending in 2348 BC and the dispersion occurring about 2242 BC. In this time frame, Noah would have still been alive, and Noah’s sons, too. We are not given much information in Genesis about the wives of Noah or his three sons, but Noah’s son’s wives were busy having children after the Flood, producing a total of 16 grandsons for Noah. And then their children had children, and so on!

There have been several reasons suggested for so many cultures having a day of the dead. Consider these:

Were the days celebrated in honor of an ancestor or group of ancestors after they died? Perhaps the day was to celebrate at the time when a great patriarch or matriarch of a given family that left Babel finally died. The death of a great ancestor would happen to each culture sooner or later. But the odds of most of them dying in the late summer/fall is very low; therefore, it would be more difficult to explain the holidays all being at about that time.
Was it a harvest festival of grains and animals, which were prepared for winter, thereby signifying death? Then, later was this festival transformed spiritually to honor the dead? This might explain the sacrifice of animals and why the holidays occur in the fall. But it fails to address why each culture deviated toward a spiritual day of the dead. Also, this doesn’t make sense for cultures that are in the southern hemisphere, where September and October are spring, not harvest time.
Did Noah’s wife die soon after the Flood and this day honored her? By the time Ham had fathered Canaan and sinned against Noah (which was before the dispersion at Babel), Noah’s wife is not mentioned and conspicuously absent, and Japheth and Shem (Noah’s sons) were left with the task of covering their father’s nakedness after he got drunk and lay uncovered in his tent (Genesis 9:20–27). One would suspect that Noah’s wife should have had this responsibility, but she is nowhere mentioned. Had Noah’s wife died fairly early prior to Babel, this well-known matriarch’s death would have been remembered by each culture after the dispersion at Babel. But there is no mention or reference to a great woman (rather than a multitude of ancestors), which would be expected if this were the case.10
Did Satan, the one who comes to kill and steal and destroy (John 10:10), move throughout all the pagan cultures after the dispersion to develop these days of the dead? Though this is possible, it seems Satan would almost have to have an omnipresence and omnipotence about him to do such a thing. And although Satan would like us to think he has these attributes of God, he doesn’t.
Was it a day to remember those who died in the Flood and a continuation of the sacrifices that Noah made after coming off the Ark? Because the celebrations call for the remembrance of the dead and have sacrifices, it is reminiscent of the large sacrifice that Noah and his family performed after the Flood. This would also explain why many other cultures have a variant of this regular sacrifice. When Noah and his family exited the Ark, they offered sacrifices to God (Genesis 8:18–9:1); of course, deviations in the manner of this sacrifice over the years and its meaning would have varied down through the ages. Based on the evidence, this seems to be the most likely explanation.

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Other Christians in the past have recognized this connection. For example, Alfred Rehwinkel, a professor of theology at Concordia Seminary, realized that nations throughout the world had a similar day of the dead, and he directly related this to the Flood of Noah’s day.11 John Urquhart pointed this out as far back as 1931, soon after the holiday of Halloween gained prominence in the United States.12

Due to the many, varied accounts of celebrations of the day of the dead around the world, I would strongly suggest that its origin was a time when people groups were still gathered together or had closer ties. Is the event of Noah’s sacrifice where the day of the dead really originates? It is possible.

It was a time when there was a sacrifice to cover sins and a reminder why death reigns in this sin-cursed world. It was a spiritual time, a time when people remembered that a sudden disaster, the global Flood, took virtually the entire population because of sin. Consider Noah for a moment: he even lost brothers and sisters in the Flood—the grief would have been overwhelming (Genesis 5:30). Halloween’s roots could easily extend this far, but there should be no dogmatism about that being the case.

Proper sacrifices in the Bible were associated with sin and death. This goes back to the first sacrifice in Genesis 3:21 when the first two humans (Adam and Eve) sinned against God. The perfect creation that God had made was now marred with sin that deserved death (Genesis 1:31; Deuteronomy 32:4; Romans 5:12).

The Bible says that the punishment for sin is death (Romans 6:23; Hebrews 9:22). This is why we all die (return to dust)—we all sin (Genesis 3:19; Romans 3:23). Due to their sin, Adam and Eve were ashamed of their nakedness. So, God made coats of animal skins to cover their nakedness. God sacrificed animals to cover this sin.

In a fashion similar to God, Abel offered sacrifices from his flocks (Genesis 4:4), and Noah did the same after the Flood. Later, the Israelites did this as well, giving sin offerings of lambs, doves, etc. as God commanded. But the blood of animals is not enough to remove sin; it is only enough to cover it temporarily (Hebrews 10:4). Finite animals could never really take the infinite punishment from an infinite God. These instances of sacrificing animals were foreshadowing Jesus Christ, the Lamb of God—who, as the perfect infinite sacrifice on the Cross (Hebrews 9:26, 10:12), fully paid for our sins so that everyone who trusts in Him will be saved and given eternal life (John 3:16–1 cool .

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With most of the celebrations of the days of the dead, sacrifices are involved. This suggests that cultures around the world understood this concept of sacrificing to God to cover sins. A Christian should expect this, since all people groups have descended from those at Babel. So, logically, when people migrated to different parts of the world after God confused their language, they took the concept of sacrifice with them. Of course, their methods and meaning of sacrifice changed and varied over the years, and the true intent was lost.

This can be used as a tool for Christians to share the good news of Jesus Christ—by showing the true meaning of what sacrifices are and showing that Jesus was the final, perfect sacrifice, making sacrifices of animals no longer necessary. Sin and death (of which sacrifice was a continual reminder all the way back to Adam) have been conquered by the Son of God, and the free gift of salvation is now offered. If the days of the dead really have their roots in Noah’s sacrifices, then consider this: the Lord has even given the command to Christians to celebrate in remembrance of this final sacrifice—it is called the Lord’s Supper. Paul says:

And when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” In the same manner He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood. This do, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” (1 Corinthians 11:24–25)

It should be obvious from a Christian perspective that many modern practices of Halloween and days of the dead have evil intent (e.g., 1 Corinthians 10:20). There has been considerable paganism that has been associated with Halloween over the years. Even evil acts such as vandalism, fires, destructive pranks, glorification of sensuality, death, and demons are in strong opposition to the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:19–23). So, a word of caution must be given to Evangelicals who promote some of the questionable modern practices of Halloween.

If anything, an alternative in opposition to Halloween should be offered by Christians. Psalm 24:1 points out that everything belongs to the Lord. Therefore, there is no reason to let Satan have Halloween. It is not his day in the first place!

When Satan tried to tempt Jesus, he offered Jesus something that was not his to offer (Matthew 4:8—all the kingdoms of the world). Jesus obviously didn’t succumb because it wasn’t Satan’s to give, nor did Satan exercise any authority over Him. Many today believe that Halloween is Satan’s day and recommend staying away from it. But recognizing such a thing would be to disregard that Satan owns nothing and that all days belong to God. Christians can take this day and make better use of it, such as by celebrating Reformation Day, a harvest festival of praise for a God who provides, an extra day of the Lord’s Supper to remember Christ’s sacrifice to end animal sacrifices, and so on (Colossians 2:16–17).

So where do you go from here? Please encourage your pastors and elders to have some sort of church function to counter modern practices of Halloween. Of course, one of the only nice things that Halloween really has to offer could also be involved—sweet treats (in moderation of course)!

If a Christian alternative is not possible in your location, then take advantage of this opportunity to share with people the message of the gospel and how Jesus Christ has conquered death and the forgiveness that can only be found in God when you greet “trick or treaters.”

Death is a terrible reality for all of us—not something to celebrate or treat as fun. Death is the punishment for sin. Since all of us are sinners (Romans 3:23), we must realize that death is coming. But God is a God of grace and mercy, and in His love He has offered a means of salvation through His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, who suffered and died the ultimate death in our place. All who repent and believe can receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 6:23)

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Answers in Genesis and its Creation Museum seek to give glory and honor to God as Creator, and to affirm the truth of the biblical record of the real origin and history of the world and mankind.

Part of this real history is the bad news that the rebellion of the first man, Adam, against God’s command brought death, suffering, and separation from God into this world. We see the results all around us. All of Adam’s descendants are sinful from conception (Psalm 51:5) and have themselves entered into this rebellion (sin). They therefore cannot live with a holy God, but are condemned to separation from God. The Bible says that “all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23) and that all are therefore subject to “everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power” (2 Thessalonians 1:9).

But the good news is that God has done something about it. “"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"” (John 3:16).

Jesus Christ the Creator, though totally sinless, suffered, on behalf of mankind, the penalty of mankind’s sin, which is death and separation from God. He did this to satisfy the righteous demands of the holiness and justice of God, His Father. Jesus was the perfect sacrifice; He died on a cross, but on the third day, He rose again, conquering death, so that all who truly believe in Him, repent of their sin, and trust in Him (rather than their own merit), are able to come back to God and live for eternity with their Creator.

Therefore, “"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God"” (John 3:1 cool .

What a wonderful Savior—and what a wonderful salvation in Christ our Creator!  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:40 pm
I personally do not feel right about celebrating Halloween. But I also do not believe in giving the devil power in having this day. It isn't that I give him this day and fear this day, but I do know that the Bible says to not do what the pagans do. Come out of their ways. And I know the Bible says that God does not change.(I can give scripture if need be) If this was originally a pagan holiday, I feel it isn't right to celebrate it. And let me get this straight, I do not condemn or look down on anyone who celebrates it. Or any other pagan originated holiday for that matter.  

Thepeopleater


cristobela
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:07 pm
Taking our hints from Babylon—which is an example of confusion, and in end times prophecy, an example used to depict spiritual harlotry and covenant unfaithfulness—is not the way to go. We should take our cues from God's Commands (and heed the actual content of the verses that Hodge cited; he erroneously paraphrased verses to make his argument at times). His discernment, as a result, is compromised and insubordinate.

I'll draw attention to the areas I noticed where this happened (I'll post five individual replies below this one):


▼... to be continued
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:08 pm
“Everything”

Quote:
[...] Psalm 24:1 points out that everything belongs to the Lord. Therefore, there is no reason to let Satan have Halloween. It is not his day in the first place!


Psalm 24:1 identifies YHWH as Creator of the material world that we live in and Creator of all who live in it.

      • Psalm 24:1 (NIV)

        Of David. A psalm.

        1 The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it,
        the world, and all who live in it;


But Hodge's erroneous paraphrasing and application of the verse disregards what YHWH revealed in the totality of Scripture: that not everything in the world is His (ergo failing to present the full Biblical evidence):

      • 1 John 2:15 (NIV)

        15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father[a] is not in them.

        Footnotes:

        a. 1 John 2:15 Or world, the Father’s love


Be it a pagan attitude, pagan philosophy, or pagan ritual/traditional practice—YHWH didn't create everything.

And nowhere in the Bible do we find YHWH Commanding to redeem spiritually-pagan traditions, or redeem that practice/tradition which was perverted to paganism / idolatry. What we do find are Commands to utterly destroy both (not keep salvageable parts—not even a diamond on the idol, or a little piece of gold from it, or a practice that was done for the idol—but totally destroy it. Otherwise, YHWH would destroy/defeat us along with it).

      • Deuteronomy 12:1-4 (NIV)

        12 These are the decrees and laws you must be careful to follow in the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has given you to possess—as long as you live in the land. 2 Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains, on the hills and under every spreading tree, where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods. 3 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places.

        4 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way.

      • Deuteronomy 7:26 (NIV)

        26 Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Regard it as vile and utterly detest it, for it is set apart for destruction.


For an example of the latter from Biblical history, read about Achan, who took parts of what was destined for destruction and tried to salvage some of it i.e. [Joshua 7]. This led to the destruction of more than just Achan, but innocent Israelites as well.

Same with Moses and the golden calf: did Moses re-melt the calf idol and re-purpose the gold for something useful? Or for YHWH's purposes? Any part of it? No, he burned it, took a hammer to it, destroyed it, ground it to powder (and then made the idolators drink it down with water; whom Moses later had killed). Not salvaged material to later re-dedicate back to YHWH. It is wasted material (so, don't try to make other uses for it or take inspiration from it—utterly destroy it so that the pagan belief totally dies).

      • Exodus 32:19-20 (NIV)

        19 When Moses approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, his anger burned and he threw the tablets out of his hands, breaking them to pieces at the foot of the mountain. 20 And he took the calf the people had made and burned it in the fire; then he ground it to powder, scattered it on the water and made the Israelites drink it.

      • Exodus 32:27-29 (NIV)

        27 Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. 29 Then Moses said, “You have been set apart to the Lord today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day.”


Much less today can we recycle spiritually-pagan symbols (or mimic the idolatrous traditions, thus salvage any remnant of the practice) for YHWH's purposes—let alone bring them into His sacred spaces, where we live or assemble.

We're to totally destroy, leave no trace of, their practices—be it in our hearts, bodies, and minds, in our physical property (or digital property), in what we say, think, or do, or participate in. Otherwise, we tarnish God's reputation because we leave room open, in the minds of others, to think that He is merely an extension of false, pagan beliefs—which we do communicate by taking inspiration from idolatrous customs in the slightest, and incorporating it into YHWH worship, a.k.a. the Creator's religion, or incorporating it into our lives as His believers/servants.

Further to note: after Moses killed those idolaters, YHWH still unleashed plague on the rest of the set-apart community the next day. Apparently, this idolatry of theirs affected more than just those who were obvious idolaters to the naked eye.

      • Exodus 32:30-35 (NIV)

        30 The next day Moses said to the people, “You have committed a great sin. But now I will go up to the Lord; perhaps I can make atonement for your sin.”

        31 So Moses went back to the Lord and said, “Oh, what a great sin these people have committed! They have made themselves gods of gold. 32 But now, please forgive their sin—but if not, then blot me out of the book you have written.”

        33 The Lord replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me I will blot out of my book. 34 Now go, lead the people to the place I spoke of, and my angel will go before you. However, when the time comes for me to punish, I will punish them for their sin.”

        35 And the Lord struck the people with a plague because of what they did with the calf Aaron had made.
.

May everyone take heed: Jesus operates in this way too.

      • Revelation 2:20-23 (NIV)

        20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.


This reasoning of, “all things belong to God anyway, so redeem pagan practices for YHWH's use” is outright false, faulty, fails to rightly divide the word of God. It is not Biblically-obedient, not Biblically-sound (Catholic, sure, but not obedient to Scripture). If the practice is idolatrous, you can never make it holy; we're to not touch it.

      • 2 Corinthians 6:17 (NIV)

        17 Therefore,

        “Come out from them
            and be separate,
              says the Lord.
        Touch no unclean thing,
            and I will receive you.”[a]

        Footnotes:

        a. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Isaiah 52:11; Ezek. 20:34,41


In fact, this type of thinking purported by the article contradicts the Spirit of yet another Command:

      • Deuteronomy 12:30-31 (NIV)

        30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.


Even if we alter it and YHWH-nize / Christianize their idolatrous custom, it's still unacceptable (e.g. “I know this statue at one point represented Baal, but now it will represent Jesus and let's bake cookies on its burning hands in the shape of human sacrifices, to represent Jesus' sacrifice for us, and maybe not on the days they observed it, but a day or so removed”. No, it will forever honor the demon / have some association that can historically be traced down to the paganism, idol / idolatrous belief. Ergo destroy it completely. Leave no trace. Wipe the false practice from the face of the earth entirely.


▼... continued
 

cristobela
Vice Captain


cristobela
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:09 pm
Satan's Offer

Quote:
When Satan tried to tempt Jesus, he offered Jesus something that was not his to offer (Matthew 4:8—all the kingdoms of the world).


According to Scripture, it actually was Satan's to offer. He is the prince of this world. The “god” of this age.

      • John 14:30 (NIV)

        30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me,

      • 2 Corinthians 4:4 (NIV)

        4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.


Hodge is subtly twisting Scripture to defend the indefensible—building an argument based on lies (deviance from Scriptural details). And because Hodge ignored that not all things in this world are of YHWH, and that Satan is the prince of this world and god of this age, he will not understand that there are practices that strictly belong to Satan and to demons—that we cannot touch and incorporate into our lives.

Note: we're not in the next age to come, the age when we don't die anymore—yet. Death is still around; ergo we're still in this age, and Satan is still the god of this age.

      • Luke 20:34-36 (NIV)

        34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.


▼... continued
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:10 pm
edited to correct typo's
“Noah-inspired” because...“Satan lacks omnipresence and omnipotence”

Quote:
Did Satan, the one who comes to kill and steal and destroy (John 10:10), move throughout all the pagan cultures after the dispersion to develop these days of the dead? Though this is possible, it seems Satan would almost have to have an omnipresence and omnipotence about him to do such a thing. And although Satan would like us to think he has these attributes of God, he doesn’t.


First of all, Satan isn't the only evil spirit in existence... emotion_sweatdrop

Hodge is ignoring the truth proclaimed by Scripture:

      • 1 Timothy 4:1 (NIV)

        4 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.

      • 1 John 4:1 (NIV)

        4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.


There are deceiving spirits, plural. Things taught by demons, plural. Not just Satan and his twisting of Scripture (though he is still doing that, and many people ignorant of the details fall for those thoughts/statements that are deviant from Scripture). But there are many deceiving spirits.

Furthermore, do false prophets only exist in the times described in the New Testament, not Old Testament? Or do deceiving spirits only exist in the New Testament times, not Old Testament? Hodge is in effect saying that there's no indication whatsoever that many evil spirits existed in the times documented in the Old Testament who dissuaded people from walking after YHWH's Commands / the Truth. That it's just Satan? He's wrong.

      • 1 Kings 22:23 (NIV)

        23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”

      • Leviticus 17:7 (KJV)

        7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.


Ergo, why the New Testament agrees—and to include one more example from the New Testament,

      • 1 Corinthians 10:19-22 (NIV)

        19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. 22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?


So, just the devil? No. There are deceiving spirits, there are demons, plural. These deceiving spirits make people believe lies and trust in false practices. Mischievous. They don't have to be omniscient, nor omnipresent, nor omnipotent, or omni-whatever, to infect the people of the planet with deviant, deceitful thoughts (people do it all the time, how much more a spirit?)—and once one person starts doing it, others copy the false belief and practice. Either the person gets stopped, dissuaded, they repent, or are violently exterminated, stopped, and others are dissuaded from copying the defeated person; otherwise, they (many others also infected with the false belief) get killed off / cut off / humiliated and defeated in God's timing by God Himself (like earlier, when I drew attention to Moses and calf-idol generation, and showed Jesus acts the same).

Not to mention, Satan is not limited to starting up a false rumor-of-a-belief in only one area of the planet.

      • Job 1:7 (NIV)

        7 The Lord said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

        Satan answered the Lord, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

      • Ephesians 2:1-2 (NIV)

        2 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.


He's walking across the earth AND ruling in the air. Unlike us, he doesn't need to take a plane. He's a spirit. And there are other spirits going around deceiving just like the devil (deceiving people into engaging in and trusting in false practices—which would include the worship of mere people, dead or alive; why would only one deceiving spirit teach that? Especially when it's so easy to get people worshiping other mere humans. Why is such a teaching only limited to one spirit as Hodge is trying to paint?).

Further, is he disregarding how Satan can be at work in all of those who are disobedient? That sounds like whatever happened in 1 Kings 22:23 as well, when YHWH placed a deceiving spirit in many prophets at the same time. Does this mean Satan, or another evil spirit, can be omnipresent? Or, rather, that there are many? Like “legion”?

There's something really strange about how a demon has plurality, and yet oneness, because apparently, they do/he does:

      • Mark 5:8-13 (NIV)

        8 For Jesus had said to him, “Come out of this man, you impure spirit!”

        9 Then Jesus asked him, “What is your name?”

        My name is Legion,” he replied, “for we are many.” 10 And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.

        11 A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside. 12 The demons begged Jesus, “Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into them.” 13 He gave them permission, and the impure spirits came out and went into the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.


My name is Legion, for we are many, and yet “he” begged Jesus not to send them out of the area [because clearly they want to continue possessing the living creatures in the area]. But also the demons, plural, beg too? And yet when “he” (Legion) comes out, many demons come out.

So whatever argument Hodge is making, it's so ridiculously removed from the reality of Scripture. There are many evil spirits out there who deceive, make us trust in false practices and false worldviews (including ancestor worship, influencing us to idolize people, alive or dead, and seek divine contact with disembodied spirits or evil spirits), who try to persuade us to live in ways that are harmful to ourselves. But if we heeded YHWH's Commands, YHWH's Words, and YHWH's worldview, we would be protected against such deception, despite these deceiving spirits working around us.

It's so easy: what do the demons want? Some apparently want worship that rightfully belongs to the Creator. They want us to rebel like they did. They want us to continue honoring demons (them) via the practices that honor them. They want us to rebel; thus, be, think, eat, dress, etc, in ways that YHWH—our Maker—Commanded against for our own good. They seek our harm, and perdition, not our well-being. They influence false beliefs—and, for the people who have YHWH's revelation, false doctrine, to influence false teachings that ignore details in the text (ergo things taught by demons / doctrines of demons).

Hodge is dismissing demonic influence, baselessly, as if Satan is the only evil spirit in existence who is trying to get people to worship rebellious creation in place of the Father/Maker, or the only spirit tempting people to walk/live against the Father's Instructions. This is not unlikely, but very feasible (and prophesied to happen). This is even done by humans on earth today, who make idols of themselves for others to follow / submit to / conform themselves to, in place of God and His Commands; so, how much more would the evil spirits, who are more powerful than man, thus a natural draw to idolize them, seek to seduce people into honoring them and their ways? with their demonic doctrine/thoughts/beliefs? And lying signs and wonders?

The core of his “hypothesis” (that this practice of Halloween must be Noah-inspired) hangs by a very thin strand of possibility, and only once you dismiss the more likely, and more Biblically-supported notion, of deceiving spirits (plural), all over the world leading people astray into false practices (to worship creation—whatever there is in creation—living or dead—in place of their Creator). Nature worshippers, who worship the fall season, who worship demons (deceiving spirits), who worship creation (people included, dead ancestors or living people), at a time when things are dying, death. Natural things, and the worship of nature, and deceiving spirits egging them on, not the divine revelation of YHWH, would lead to those practices across the world. The ties to Noah are contrived.

But for the sake of argument, let's be generous and grant Hodge that this practice was perverted from Noah's sacrifice after he disembarked from the ark:

We already have a Biblical precedent of what to do (when something that YHWH didn't Command, or that YHWH did Command but didn't Command to be done forever, becomes paganized/idolatrous): destroy it—i.e. Moses' construction of the bronze serpent, whose construction was Commanded by YHWH, but once people started giving it an idolatrous use, pagan beliefs mixed into it, it was destroyed—not, “leave the idol standing and remind the people of what it really means, or what it can mean”.

But destruction:

      • Numbers 21:8-9 (NIV)

        8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.

      • 2 Kings 18:4 (NIV)

        4 He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was called Nehushtan.[a])

        Footnotes:

        a. 2 Kings 18:4 Nehushtan sounds like the Hebrew for both bronze and snake.


Unlike the other Commands that we find, the Command to build a bronze serpent does not say it's something to be done forever, or to be done in the future at end times, so we destroy the practice of it. It's disposable.


God's Way leaves no traces of demon worship—whatsoever—for people to allege, “ha! They copied the pagan holiday of ____! Nothing unique about YHWH”—that is the very reason why YHWH Commands are so efficient of setting Him apart from what is profane / common (a.k.a. set-apart from the idols/gods/other spirits and false beliefs held in esteem by the world).

      • Ezekiel 22:26 (NIV)

        26 Her priests do violence to my law and profane my holy things; they do not distinguish between the holy and the common; they teach that there is no difference between the unclean and the clean; and they shut their eyes to the keeping of my Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.


And why Paul condemned the keeping of these “idol”- / “false god”- / “false belief”-honoring days.

      • Galatians 4:8-11 (NIV)

        8 Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods. 9 But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable forces[a]? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? 10 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11 I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

        Footnotes:

        a. Galatians 4:9 Or principles


Hodge is not being consistent with the whole counsel of the word of God. We are not to salvage pagan beliefs, idols, idol-honoring days, and pagan spiritual practices. We do not salvage (in whole or in part) what has become contaminated by idolatry. We destroy them. We destroy them completely, not take inspiration from it, and incorporate it into our own worship of the Most High, but utterly attack and destroy it from our property, let alone our sacred spaces.


▼... continued
 

cristobela
Vice Captain


cristobela
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:11 pm
Christ's Sacrifice

The dishonesty (at worst), or ignorance/unawareness (at best), demonstrated by Mr. Bodie Hodge by citing Colossians 2:16-17 in the way that he did, demonstrates that he's not grasping another Biblical concept: Christ's sacrifice didn't put an end to Sabbaths and New Moons, He is the One whom YHWH's holy days speak of...

      • Colossians 2:16-17 (NIV)

        16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.


... thus, their observance at end times and even animal sacrifices in Ezekiel's third temple:

      • Isaiah 66:23-24 (NIV)

        23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord.

      • Ezekiel 40:41 (NIV)

        41 So there were four tables on one side of the gateway and four on the other—eight tables in all—on which the sacrifices were slaughtered.


Ezekiel chapters 40-44 describe the architectural details of this end times' temple. None of these prophecies have been fulfilled yet.

Jesus put an end to sacrificing for SIN, not to every type of sacrifice that exists.

      • Hebrews 10:18 (NIV)

        18 And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.


Thus why Jesus will be eating the passover sacrifice again at His return:

      • Luke 22:14-16 (NIV)

        14 When the hour came, Jesus and his apostles reclined at the table. 15 And he said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer. 16 For I tell you, I will not eat it again until it finds fulfillment in the kingdom of God.”


And what is the Passover meal comprised of?

      • Numbers 9:10-12 (NIV)

        10 “Tell the Israelites: ‘When any of you or your descendants are unclean because of a dead body or are away on a journey, they are still to celebrate the Lord’s Passover, 11 but they are to do it on the fourteenth day of the second month at twilight. They are to eat the lamb, together with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 12 They must not leave any of it till morning or break any of its bones. When they celebrate the Passover, they must follow all the regulations.


Animal sacrifice: the lamb along with the bitter herbs.

That “all animal sacrifices were NOT put an end to” is why Paul continued to schedule sacrifices after Jesus' once-and-for-all sacrifice:

      • Acts 21:26 (NIV)

        26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.


Context: After Jesus' resurrection—and the 40 days He spent teaching and eating with His disciples after that—Jesus ascended up into the sky in Acts 1. So, Acts 21, is long after Jesus' sacrifice. As long as the temple (or, at the very least the altar, a precedent established by Ezra 3:1-6) is up in Jerusalem, animal sacrifices can and will be made—as prophesied by Scripture.


▼... continued
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2016 7:14 pm
Dishonest watering-down to make connections/similarities

Hodge also warps history, ignoring the details of differences between all these practices, to force a connection in ambiguity. Samhain—still observed to this day—is not the ancestor worship speaking to specific dead people, offering them their favorite foods, the way you find in the Korean Chuseok and the Mexican Day of the Dead.

The Celts believe that the boundary between the realm of the dead and the realm of the living is thinnest on that night and that evil spirits / faeries come out (thus lighting bonfires to deter them / purify the area of them). The Celts hide in costumes/behind masks to avert the evil spirits / mischievous faeries.

But there is no truth to the notion that once a day, every year, evil spirits cross over. Like I explained to Mercurite in [this reply], all of their belief systems, despite their details, contradict the revelation given in the Bible by God about dead souls and demons.

Demons...

cristobela WROTE:

[…] They're not stuck in an underworld. They live alongside us.

      • Matthew 12:43-45 (NIV)

        43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”


Even when the demon comes out of a person, they don't go to some realm of the dead. The demons are not going anywhere until Christ judges the living and the dead. They're on earth. Not coming on earth once a year, every year.

      • Matthew 8:28-29 (NIV)

        28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

        Footnotes:

        a. a. Matthew 8:28 Some manuscripts Gergesenes; other manuscripts Gerasenes


If we're speaking against their beliefs, then we cannot be participating in those events that honor their beliefs. That would be hypocritical. It doesn't matter what significance the pagans give their religion (that "we're hiding from demons"); it's a false belief. You don't hide from demons because of something you wear. They are spirits. They're not fooled by that. If they can see the future (thus are able to divine things for you, like in the case of the possessed girl in Acts 16:16), then they can see beyond your material mask.

      • Acts 16:16-18 (NIV)

        16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” 18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.


Demons are not imprisoned in the realm of the dead. According to the Scripture referenced above, they are on earth, wandering around possessing people, and, after having been exorcised, demons can freely go back into their former human host; they're not stuck anywhere, let alone the realm of the dead, nor to any time of the year. Neither demons, nor the departed souls of dead human bodies, come out on a yearly basis from the realm of the dead (a place demons are not stuck inside of in the first place, and that human souls can't come out of by their own volition). The Biblical reality is that demons can even divine your future, so it becomes nonsensical to think a material mask will obstruct their presence from you. Spirits are not deterred by physical walls or face paint. The useless practice of costume-wearing that occurs on October 31st is derived from paganism.

Hodge vaguely, if not fails to entirely, address these differences in an attempt to make them all sound the same.

There's a reason why YHWH's Commands set apart both Him and us (and thus YHWH-worship) from the beliefs of the nations. The details of His Commands, down to the things we do or don't do, believe and don't believe, would not permit there to be accusations of copying from the pagans' religious beliefs, nor to tie their pagan religion down to a Biblical practice (the few times Hodge tried to tie it down to the detailed statements of Scripture, he had to admit he couldn't). It's abominable the level of ambiguity he has to resort to, to insinuate, “Noah! Biblical”! And thus, “acceptable”!

If God's Commands were powerless to separate us, to entirely prevent the mixed participation in worship of what is spiritually false from what is spiritually truth, and powerless to render us utterly distinct from false practices, then the following is mere idle speak:

      • Leviticus 20:26 (NIV)

        26 You are to be holy to me because I, the Lord, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.

      • 2 Corinthians 6:17 (NIV)

        17 Therefore,

        “Come out from them
            and be separate,
              says the Lord.
        Touch no unclean thing,
            and I will receive you.”[a]

        Footnotes:

        a. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Isaiah 52:11; Ezek. 20:34,41


So none of this, “ah, but actually, we can trace this down to Noah”—no, you can't. Their practices, even the very way they sacrificed, is nothing like YHWH's. But how the devils/demons told them to do (or allowed them to do) sacrifice. The devil (and demonic doctrine) is in the details (or lack thereof, in the vague ambiguities). Because they refuse to love the truth, people will be deceived by them.

      • 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 (NIV)

        9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

      • Hosea 4:6 (NIV)

        6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

        “Because you have rejected knowledge,
            I also reject you as my priests;
        because you have ignored the law of your God,
            I also will ignore your children.

      • Psalm 119:43 (NIV)

        43 Never take your word of truth from my mouth,
            for I have put my hope in your laws.

      • John 17:17 (NIV)

        17 Sanctify them by[a] the truth; your word is truth.

        Footnotes:

        a. John 17:17 Or them to live in accordance with


And Jesus—being the Way, the Truth, and the Life—submitted all things to the Father's Commands. [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored], which starts with Jesus' sayings.

All these incompetent, lawless, thus truthless, interpretations, and interpretations that require you to ignore the totality of Scripture on a subject, or ignore details within a verse, or falsely paraphrase, are untrustworthy. They have no power to save from danger. YHWH's Commands, on the otherhand, do.

To tell people: “hey, we share this vague similarity, if I squint and ignore specific, fine points” is not going to win them over to Christ, but demonstrate to them, “well, if we're that much alike at all, then I'd rather stick to the belief that doesn't impose holy living on me”. As someone who didn't grow up Christian, that's all the similarities ever did for me (“I guess pagans are right; and since they're older, they contain the more legitimate spirituality; why do I want to be a Christian? Go away, that's not my thing. I already believe in spirits”).

The only thing that made me think twice that the Bible wasn't like the rest, but that the Bible offered THE truth (thus was worthy of adhering to exclusively), was when Christians totally avoided the paganism, broke ties with it, even the paganism that was culturally-acceptable by the Christians of the day (because it was not acceptable by the standards of YHWH's Commands). We're supposed to be totally different, set-apart, because the truth is proclaimed by YHWH's revelation alone, not any of their pagan practices (“demonic thought”-honoring religions).

Demons love the type of reasoning that mixes all beliefs together, that keeps us from the narrow path, that makes us think all beliefs are alike, that says, “okay keep your contrary-to-the-Commands cultural practices, just put Christ's name on it”, and thus, “preserve my demon presence in your practice; destroy YHWH's legitimacy as unique and set-apart from all lies”—like the Catholic Church has done and continues to do—but disobediently so. That doctrine needs to be eradicated. It's not Biblical. Had I wanted to be a Catholic or a Pharisee, who cares more about self-imposed tradition / culture than the Commands of God, I would've joined their sects.

The Biblical Jesus, on the other hand, submitted all things to the Father's Commands, and that's whose example I follow and exhort everyone else to follow as well, once more: [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored], which starts with Jesus' sayings.

We're suppose to avoid false teachers, and their false doctrine, not eat from their leavened teachings nor lead God's sheep to feed on them.

      • 2 Timothy 4:3 (NIV)

        3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

      • Proverbs 4:2 (KJV)

        2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.


Lawless interpretations (of the Old and New Testaments alike) are the only reason one would venture to think that idolatrous customs have any salvageable elements in the slightest [because such people ignore the Commands and Biblical examples that say, “NO, not salvageable, no part of it is”]. Lawless interpretations cannot be derived from Scripture once all details are acknowledged. I will continue linking to this topic that meticulously exposes them: [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored].


end.
 

cristobela
Vice Captain


Garland-Green

Friendly Gaian

PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:05 am
This thread is now a Sticky to more easily reference it in the future.

Wonder if we can redeem the pagan traditions and holidays and make them holy? Read cristobela's posts for more information on the topic.  
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2019 8:45 pm
I Sell Condoms On eBay
I strongly agree with the stuff you said here, and it has lots of Biblical verses to support your claims. It does kinda bother me that when many Christians try to prove something Biblical, they say things like, "According to this pastor / archbishop / scholar etc..." They just go outside the Bible trying to define it based on what other man made sources say, whereas you manage to refer to many Biblical verses to support your claims which I really admire. Though I will say that personally, I believe the NIV Bible and other modern versions are corrupted translations since they have many important texts removed when compared to the AKJV Bible (including several important texts about Jesus Christ). And another reason is because both the NIV Bible and the Satanic Bible were published by the same company called HarperCollins Publishers. I recommend you should watch this eight minute video exposing the NIV Bible:

NIV Bible Exposed


cristobela
Dishonest watering-down to make connections/similarities

Hodge also warps history, ignoring the details of differences between all these practices, to force a connection in ambiguity. Samhain—still observed to this day—is not the ancestor worship speaking to specific dead people, offering them their favorite foods, the way you find in the Korean Chuseok and the Mexican Day of the Dead.

The Celts believe that the boundary between the realm of the dead and the realm of the living is thinnest on that night and that evil spirits / faeries come out (thus lighting bonfires to deter them / purify the area of them). The Celts hide in costumes/behind masks to avert the evil spirits / mischievous faeries.

But there is no truth to the notion that once a day, every year, evil spirits cross over. Like I explained to Mercurite in [this reply], all of their belief systems, despite their details, contradict the revelation given in the Bible by God about dead souls and demons.

Demons...

cristobela WROTE:

[…] They're not stuck in an underworld. They live alongside us.

      • Matthew 12:43-45 (NIV)

        43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation.”


Even when the demon comes out of a person, they don't go to some realm of the dead. The demons are not going anywhere until Christ judges the living and the dead. They're on earth. Not coming on earth once a year, every year.

      • Matthew 8:28-29 (NIV)

        28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

        Footnotes:

        a. a. Matthew 8:28 Some manuscripts Gergesenes; other manuscripts Gerasenes


If we're speaking against their beliefs, then we cannot be participating in those events that honor their beliefs. That would be hypocritical. It doesn't matter what significance the pagans give their religion (that "we're hiding from demons"); it's a false belief. You don't hide from demons because of something you wear. They are spirits. They're not fooled by that. If they can see the future (thus are able to divine things for you, like in the case of the possessed girl in Acts 16:16), then they can see beyond your material mask.

      • Acts 16:16-18 (NIV)

        16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. 17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.” 18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.


Demons are not imprisoned in the realm of the dead. According to the Scripture referenced above, they are on earth, wandering around possessing people, and, after having been exorcised, demons can freely go back into their former human host; they're not stuck anywhere, let alone the realm of the dead, nor to any time of the year. Neither demons, nor the departed souls of dead human bodies, come out on a yearly basis from the realm of the dead (a place demons are not stuck inside of in the first place, and that human souls can't come out of by their own volition). The Biblical reality is that demons can even divine your future, so it becomes nonsensical to think a material mask will obstruct their presence from you. Spirits are not deterred by a physical object or face paint. The useless practice of costume-wearing that occurs on October 31st is derived from paganism.

Hodge vaguely, if not fails to entirely, address these differences in an attempt to make them all sound the same.

There's a reason why YHWH's Commands set apart both Him and us (and thus YHWH-worship) from the beliefs of the nations. The details of His Commands, down to the things we do or don't do, believe and don't believe, would not permit there to be accusations of copying from the pagans' religious beliefs, nor to tie their pagan religion down to a Biblical practice (the few times Hodge tried to tie it down to the detailed statements of Scripture, he had to admit he couldn't). It's abominable the level of ambiguity he has to resort to, to insinuate, “Noah! Biblical”! And thus, “acceptable”!

If God's Commands were powerless to separate us, to entirely prevent the mixed participation in worship of what is spiritually false from what is spiritually truth, and powerless to render us utterly distinct from false practices, then the following is mere idle speak:

      • Leviticus 20:26 (NIV)

        26 You are to be holy to me because I, the Lord, am holy, and I have set you apart from the nations to be my own.

      • 2 Corinthians 6:17 (NIV)

        17 Therefore,

        “Come out from them
            and be separate,
              says the Lord.
        Touch no unclean thing,
            and I will receive you.”[a]

        Footnotes:

        a. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Isaiah 52:11; Ezek. 20:34,41


So none of this, “ah, but actually, we can trace this down to Noah”—no, you can't. Their practices, even the very way they sacrificed, is nothing like YHWH's. But how the devils/demons told them to do (or allowed them to do) sacrifice. The devil (and demonic doctrine) is in the details (or lack thereof, in the vague ambiguities). Because they refuse to love the truth, people will be deceived by them.

      • 2 Thessalonians 2:9-11 (NIV)

        9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

      • Hosea 4:6 (NIV)

        6 my people are destroyed from lack of knowledge.

        “Because you have rejected knowledge,
            I also reject you as my priests;
        because you have ignored the law of your God,
            I also will ignore your children.

      • Psalm 119:43 (NIV)

        43 Never take your word of truth from my mouth,
            for I have put my hope in your laws.

      • John 17:17 (NIV)

        17 Sanctify them by[a] the truth; your word is truth.

        Footnotes:

        a. John 17:17 Or them to live in accordance with


And Jesus—being the Way, the Truth, and the Life—submitted all things to the Father's Commands. [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored], which starts with Jesus' sayings.

All these incompetent, lawless, thus truthless, interpretations, and interpretations that require you to ignore the totality of Scripture on a subject, or ignore details within a verse, or falsely paraphrase, are untrustworthy. They have no power to save from danger. YHWH's Commands, on the otherhand, do.

To tell people: “hey, we share this vague similarity, if I squint and ignore specific, fine points” is not going to win them over to Christ, but demonstrate to them, “well, if we're that much alike at all, then I'd rather stick to the belief that doesn't impose holy living on me”. As someone who didn't grow up Christian, that's all the similarities ever did for me (“I guess pagans are right; and since they're older, they contain the more legitimate spirituality; why do I want to be a Christian? Go away, that's not my thing. I already believe in spirits”).

The only thing that made me think twice that the Bible wasn't like the rest, but that the Bible offered THE truth (thus was worthy of adhering to exclusively), was when Christians totally avoided the paganism, broke ties with it, even the paganism that was culturally-acceptable by the Christians of the day (because it was not acceptable by the standards of YHWH's Commands). We're supposed to be totally different, set-apart, because the truth is proclaimed by YHWH's revelation alone, not any of their pagan practices (“demonic thought”-honoring religions).

Demons love the type of reasoning that mixes all beliefs together, that keeps us from the narrow path, that makes us think all beliefs are alike, that says, “okay keep your contrary-to-the-Commands cultural practices, just put Christ's name on it”, and thus, “preserve my demon presence in your practice; destroy YHWH's legitimacy as unique and set-apart from all lies”—like the Catholic Church has done and continues to do—but disobediently so. That doctrine needs to be eradicated. It's not Biblical. Had I wanted to be a Catholic or a Pharisee, who cares more about self-imposed tradition / culture than the Commands of God, I would've joined their sects.

The Biblical Jesus, on the other hand, submitted all things to the Father's Commands, and that's whose example I follow and exhort everyone else to follow as well, once more: [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored], which starts with Jesus' sayings.

We're suppose to avoid false teachers, and their false doctrine, not eat from their leavened teachings nor lead God's sheep to feed on them.

      • 2 Timothy 4:3 (NIV)

        3 For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.

      • Proverbs 4:2 (KJV)

        2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.


Lawless interpretations (of the Old and New Testaments alike) are the only reason one would venture to think that idolatrous customs have any salvageable elements in the slightest [because such people ignore the Commands and Biblical examples that say, “NO, not salvageable, no part of it is”]. Lawless interpretations cannot be derived from Scripture once all details are acknowledged. I will continue linking to this topic that meticulously exposes them: [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored].


end.


The trap in addressing this: the NIV has actual problematic areas, but not the kind of thing purported by said video. So I will ask that you please read through this patiently at your own pace to prevent any misunderstanding and keep things orderly. As an aside, this "HarperCollins" publisher also publishes KJV Bibles: link so that's not an example of sound reasoning to rely on. The last thing we want to do is continue to pass on unsubstantiated claims or lies, false allegations of the intentions of another's heart, ruining the reputation of another (or another's work) unnecessarily. I'll present a link to [this topic] where the guild captain posted various other places in the guild where the NIV/KJV discrepancies have been discussed already.

For what my conscience is itching to address though I'm going to directly quote an old reply of mine—and do not allow this reply to prevent you from reading through those topics because what the guild members have provided, together, do provide a more complete picture, this is just one reply (mine) from one of those topics:



Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 9:32 pm
real eyes realize
***note: if a little yellow "police officer" emoticon shows up, click it; I'll be using screenshots in this post.

When a particular English translation decides to leave a verse out, it will tell you in the footnotes (and the reason for leaving the verse out is usually because they used a different manuscript). The NIV is no different. For instance, taking a look at a few of the accusations made on the first website you linked to, and actually comparing it to the NIV:

    Accusation:

    Quote:
    Matthew 17:21 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing? "Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."


    Let's Verify That:

    User Image


    KJV For Comparison:

        Matthew 17:21 (KJV)

        21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.


        Mark 9:29 (KJV)

        29 And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting.


    NIV/KJV side-by-side:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mt+17:21;+mk+9:29&version=NIV;KJV


    Verdict:

    The NIV didn't "edit" anything out. It tells you, "we're using a different manuscript and it doesn't include this verse/word, but other manuscripts do".




    Accusation:

    Quote:
    Matthew 18:11 -- COMPLETELY removed [also deleted from the Jehovah's Witness "Bible"]. What are you NIV readers missing? "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."



    Let's Verify That:

    User Image


    KJV For Comparison:

        Matthew 18:11 (KJV)

        11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.


        Luke 19:10 (KJV)

        10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


    NIV/KJV side-by-side:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mt+18:11;+lk+19:10&version=NIV;KJV


    Verdict:

    The NIV holds the same information despite relying on a different manuscript; when that manuscript varies, the NIV tells you. It didn't "edit" anything out. The manuscript literally did not have the verse in it.



    Accusation:

    Quote:
    Matthew 12:47 -- removed in the footnotes


    question question question

    ...I'm not even sure what this accusation is saying.

    Let's Verify What The Verse Actually Says:

    User Image


    KJV For Comparison:

        Matthew 12:47 (KJV)

        47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.


    NIV/KJV side-by-side:
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mt+12:47&version=NIV;KJV

    question question question I see no difference question question question



Verdict:

The NIV holds the same information despite relying on a different manuscript.





That said however, we do ourselves a favor looking into the Greek or Hebrew of a verse, instead of solely relying on an English translation—regardless of the English version you choose to read (whether KJV, NASB, ESV, NIV, etc...); sometimes the Hebrew or Greek conveys something that isn't fully expressed by the English.

For instance, the use of "elohim" which just gets translated as "gods"/god: you would have to study all the places it appears in the Hebrew to get a full grasp of what it truly means (it's a word that gets applied to not only YHWH, the Holy God of Israel, but to demons [Deuteronomy 32:17], angels [Psalm 8:5], idols we form with our own hands [Deuteronomy 4:28], and even to particular human men [Exodus 7:1]; so it gets applied to the true God... as well as to things that are not really creator god but that actually exist [whether "other beings" like angels, demons or human...or "a lifeless object" like a stone statue). The Old Testament conveys the belief in many "gods"/elohim, however there's only one Creator elohim (YHWH/Jesus/Holy Spirit) who deserves all the worship; there's no other like him.


I say all that to say this: there's no such thing as a perfect English translation. For deeper meaning, study the Greek and Hebrew (which you can do with an interlinear bible or a concordance). And whatever "claims" you hear in the future, actually go verify the accusation being made (that your bible version actually does what they're saying it does; and in this case, the claim is false [the NIV did not eliminate information; it used a different manuscript]; the website was distorting facts).


---



As for Chick's accusation, same thing:

      • Accusation:

      The NIV "edited out" Acts 8:37.


      Let's Verify That:
      User Image

      NIV/KJV side-by-side:
      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ac8:37&version=NIV;KJV



      Verdict:

      The information is not missing if one bothers to check. The NIV holds the same information despite relying on a different manuscript.



      • Accusation:

      The NIV turns Jesus into a liar in John 7:8-10 because the NIV editors take out the word "yet".


      Let's Verify That:
      User Image

      NIV/KJV side-by-side:
      https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+7:8-10&version=NIV;KJV


      Verdict:

      The information is not missing if one bothers to check. Jesus is not a liar. The NIV preserved the same information despite relying on a different manuscript. They were honest enough to tell you, "the manuscript we used actually lacked this word, but others have it".




Second of all, the overall accusation (of "adding to" or "taking away from") needs to include the KJV (going with Chick's interpretation of what it means to "add to" / "take away from"). In the very process of translation, words must be taken or added so that a sentence actually makes sense in another language grammatically. For instance, the "et" (את) in Hebrew has no translation. It's just a marker.

Quote:
User Image

Note that this word is left untranslated. Et is used to designate that the following word is the definite direct object of the verb. We translate: “The king built the great temple.”

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_Six/Object_Pronouns/object_pronouns.html


Does it mean we're taking away a jot or tittle from God's word for not being able to translate it (and thus not being able to include it in the English)? No. (Korean is similar: it has "object marking particles" (을/를) and "subject marking particles" (이/가); such things have no translations, it just helps you know who is the object in a sentence [helps you see the word the verb is acting upon] / it clarifies the grammar of a sentence). No English translation will literally preserve every jot and tittle, because it literally doesn't have jots and tittles as part of its alphabet and grammar. And by the way, the interpretation/application we should use for "jot and tittle" is this:

Quote:
In the Greek original translated as English "jot and tittle" are found the words iota and keraia (Greek: κεραία).[2] Iota is the smallest letter of the Greek alphabet (ι). Alternatively, it may represent yodh (י), the smallest letter of the Hebrew and Aramaic alphabets. "Keraia" is a hook or serif, possibly referring to other Greek diacritics, or possibly to the hooks on Hebrew or Aramaic letters, (ב) versus (כ), or additional marks such as crowns (e.g. the Vulgate apex) found in the Torah. A keraia is also used in printing modern Greek numerals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tittle


The claim that, "the editors of the modern translations are 'editing things out' on purpose, to be sneaky and evil and mislead people to hell" is a sensationalized rumor. It's a manuscript difference. And we're better off studying multiple translations, if not the Greek/Hebrew directly, when coming across apparent differences in word choice or appearance/disappearance of verses (though, most likely, there will be a foot note about it).


note: this is an old post of mine, on an old account. And I added underline tags in my quotation here in certain places to prevent the wink emoticon from showing up. Gaia didn't always render a wink emoticon when typing quotation mark + parentheses right next to each other.


It's unfair to omit the information the NIV provides [its footnotes, meant to be read] and only selectively quote from it to make their translation job look like they omitted or added information from a letter when actually they alerted you of why they did what they did and where they preserved the information elsewhere if appearing omitted [because that's what the manuscript—ancient handwritten copy of said letter or gospel—that they worked from documented or didn't document]; this behavior is causing unnecessary conspiratorial thinking. The truth is: there are differences in manuscripts [that the KJV does not alert of, but the NIV does], but no doctrines have been changed by these manuscript differences [differences in the ancient handwritten copies of the letter/book in question]). The irony is that the very behavior alleged against the NIV is what the video is, and people who speak/reason like it are, doing: omitting vital information that changes the context of the situation. But the NIV didn't actually do that as a translation work in its totality. As the other topics go on to address and the replies of other guild members provided, there is a reason why older manuscripts do not have certain verses that younger ones (younger manuscripts used by the KJV for example) we do find repeat in other places.

As you can tell by the several replies I made to this topic addressing the subject in the opening post (Halloween and its uncleanness), I'm not exclusively for one particular English translation over the other. When there's a discrepancy (or even if there isn't) the Hebrew and Greek of the manuscripts are what govern.

---

That said, a legitimate problem I do have against the NIV, as I addressed in the topic [Details in the New Testament that Get Ignored] page 3: are things like the phrase “unclean foods” not substantiated by the Hebrew nor the Greek. There do exist unclean animals, regardless of which English translation you prefer (KJV or otherwise)...

      • Revelation 18:2 (KJV)

        2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying,

        Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen,
            and is become the habitation of devils,
        and the hold of every foul spirit,
            and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

      • Revelation 18:2 (NIV)

        2 With a mighty voice he shouted:

        “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’[a]
            She has become a dwelling for demons
        and a haunt for every impure spirit,
            a haunt for every unclean bird,
            a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

        Footnotes:

        a. Revelation 18:2 Isaiah 21:9


note: I'm structuring the KJV like the NIV for easy comparison.

...but “unclean foods”—as a concept or a phrase—is not substantiated by the Hebrew or Greek. As I went on to show, this becomes problematic to sound interpretation of the Biblically-defined food (as YHWH defines, not as the other nations went on to define). To include some of that information here: the only place that phrase, “unclean foods” , appears is in modern translations and in two ways: [1] as man-made titles in chapters like Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14, attempting to summarize the chapter's main point, give organization to the text and [2] in terms of being in the actual body of the text, only in Hosea 9:3 of modern translations (when they tried to translate meaning instead of word-for-word; however, their understanding of "the meaning" didn't define words Biblically which does create problems when you get to the New Testament and try to follow the very nuanced arguments found there that Jesus and Paul make against the Pharisees self-imposed traditions); to illustrate this second point, in Hosea 9:3, the Hebrew doesn't say “food” there, just “unclean” and “things” is implied. (link to see Hebrew and English side by side: https://biblehub.com/text/hosea/9-3.htm).

Screenshot:

User Image

https://biblehub.com/text/hosea/9-3.htm


The older translations that we have in the public domain (KJV, DARBY, DRA, YLT), render the thought more accurately.

I'll use the NIV and KJV for comparison/contrast:

      • Hosea 9:3 (NIV)                                             

        3 They will not remain in the Lord’s land;
              Ephraim will return to Egypt
              and eat unclean food in Assyria.

        Hosea 9:3 (KJV)

        3 They shall not dwell in the Lord's land;
            but Ephraim shall return to Egypt,
            and they shall eat unclean things in Assyria.


note: once again, I'm structuring the KJV like the NIV for easy comparison.

Technically, both of these English translations have added a word here in this verse (since neither “things” nor “food” appears in the Hebrew, as you saw by either visiting the link or looking at the screenshot of said link), but it was more accurate to say “things” (because things can also refer to semen, blood, rotting corpses and other decomposing things that are not food).

Putting aside that sin starts in the heart and defiles you, this actually makes a world of difference when trying to discern if physical things still do defile/contaminate you too, and do affect whether we interpret Paul (and Jesus) correctly, able to follow the actual arguments they're making (e.g. what specifically they had against the Pharisees as a sect and the way they interpreted [and the same is true for what our Gentile prejudices read into the text as well, ignorant of how YHWH defined a thing]) as I went to carefully highlight in that topic—for brevity's sake, that topic took 5 pages to help contextualize everything from Genesis to Revelation with the verses and real world examples; I'm limiting myself to one reply right now (but essentially Jesus and Paul were defending “food” as the Word of God consecrates [sets-apart and defines as food for man] vs. what people started doing additionally, adding or taking away from what God said by what they teach as doctrine or the traditions [and traditional interpretations] they adopt [e.g. the Pharisees added by suggesting you must do the self-imposed handwashing ritual, with all its blessings, over their hands, their bowls, and cups—that they imposed upon themselves—otherwise what God defined as food is no longer food in their eyes but defiled, even though God never commanded any such hand blessing ritual over the food on your dinner table). Something is either food for man (as YHWH defined) or it is an unclean thing; no self-imposed tradition or deviant (or ignorant) interpretation will change that.

And to that effect, as I mentioned an unclean thing earlier, and to combat what Gentiles interpret as acceptable to eat [thus in the opposite extreme]...

      • Acts 21:25 (KJV)

        25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

      • Leviticus 17:10 (KJV)

        10 And whatsoever man there be of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people.


… eating literal blood is forbidden, despite consuming Jesus' blood in symbol (by consuming wine, not His literal blood)...

      • John 6:54 (KJV)

        54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

      • 1 Corinthians 11:20-26 (KJV)

        20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

        21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

        22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? what shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

        23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:

        24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

        25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

        26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come..


(I'm bolding v.21 to illustrate that this is the alcoholic beverage not literal blood [hence people getting drunk when they turned into a gluttony-fest instead of what the legitimate ritual stood for; hence the rebuke]).

For the record, Jesus was not being wild and crazy using a symbolic application of wine to represent blood. That is Old Testament in the Law of God itself (e.g. Genesis 49:11; Deuteronomy 32:14).

      • Genesis 49:11 (NIV)

        11 He will tether his donkey to a vine,
            his colt to the choicest branch;
        he will wash his garments in wine,
            his robes in the blood of grapes.

      • Genesis 49:11 (KJV)

        11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his a**'s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

      • Deuteronomy 32:14 (KJV)

        14 Butter of kine, and milk of sheep, with fat of lambs, and rams of the breed of Bashan, and goats, with the fat of kidneys of wheat; and thou didst drink the pure blood of the grape.

      • Deuteronomy 32:14 (NIV)

        14 with curds and milk from herd and flock
            and with fattened lambs and goats,
        with choice rams of Bashan
            and the finest kernels of wheat.
        You drank the foaming blood of the grape.


And this positive application in the Law of drinking "blood" (really, wine) doesn't contradict the prohibitions against consuming literal blood also in the Law just because there is an acceptable symbolic application in YHWH's Law. There are no contradictions when we keep ourselves rooted in the Old Testament definition and usage of these terms.

…so “drinking” blood metaphorically by consuming wine to demonstrate a spiritual principle is fine. Likewise, literal unclean animals are things we do not consume literally despite symbolically taking “unclean animals” into the fold / into the Body, a symbol used to represent the gentiles (who formerly had unclean natures and practices, but cleansed by Christ of said unclean natures and practices after they come to Him), but no one is sanctioning the eating of literal unclean animals (if they're being obedient) because their actual, physical natures have not changed (same with the actual, physical properties of blood). Unclean animals still do unclean things e.g. removing the putrefying matter from the earth by eating it (whether it's a rotting corpse or even eating their own feces [or that of others]...


MUST NOT WATCH!!! Elephant poops and then Vulture eats it



Johnny Herrera
Published on Feb 17, 2017

Quote:
I was just recording my walk through at the Cameron Park Zoo in Waco, Texas and walked right into this. This is one of the grossest things i've ever seen and i hope you can stomach it. My advice...DON'T WATCH IT ITS NASTY.

Category          Pets & Animals


Poop coming out of the elephant: @1:10-1:15, &
Vulture coming to eat it @1:41-till the end of the video.



Why are pigs called pigs?



CountrysideDweller
Published on Nov 13, 2011

Quote:
A video is worth a thousand words.

Category              Pets & Animals


@0:21-0:30



Sewer Rats Eating Lunch.wmv


scottnys
Published on Jan 24, 2010

Quote:
Rats Eating Some Golden Nuggets in the Sewer

Category              Pets & Animals


@1:18-1:21

The literally and physically unclean things should not enter the beginning of our human digestive system; they are contaminating to us (as humans); we weren't created to be garbage cans. And this is why we have a way to manage waste and eliminate it properly (e.g. bury it under the earth); otherwise, it pollutes the water and the food supply, and we get sick. This is just one of the aspects of how (and why) the physically unclean things YHWH identified as unclean in His Law, continue to be unclean in the physical (I addressed more real world examples in the topic). And as long as we're physically on earth, those Commands guard against physical uncleanness and disease when we heed them.


—even when animals stop killing other animals and there are no more rotting carcasses left (human or animal), these animals have a function: to eat rotting/decomposing matter, even rotting plant matter (as they would have in the beginning, before there was ever any sin and death); they are the living trash cans removing from the earth any waste—be those living trash cans rats, pigs, vultures etc [none of those are identified as clean by the Law of God for a reason]; they come to consume what's decaying, what is trash, do not try to eat the trash nor the trash can. As Jesus continued to identify in Revelation 18:2, the literal animals YHWH identified as unclean are still literally unclean animals—thus why they can be used as symbols of uncleanness—and uncleanness because of what they do on earth (for the same reason, this is why they hang around places where there are dead bodies; they go where there are foul, decaying things [and demons—being unclean spirits / impure spirits—delight in foul things too, in foul speech, thoughts, and actions; humiliating the image of God we're made in, our actual purpose/function; they revel in filth and would have us do the same, physically and in doctrine that would keep us in those practices and in false beliefs and in distrust of what God Commanded, also identified as foul]).

      • Revelation 21:27 (KJV)

        27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth[G2839], neither whatsoever worketh abomination [G946], or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.


    946. bdelugma ►
    Strong's Concordance
    bdelugma: a detestable thing
    Original Word: βδέλυγμα, ατος, τό
    Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
    Transliteration: bdelugma
    Phonetic Spelling: (bdel'-oog-mah)
    Definition: a detestable thing
    Usage: an abominable thing, an accursed thing.

    HELPS Word-studies
    946 bdélygma (from 948 /bdelýssō, derived from bdēō, "to reek with stench") – properly, what emits a foul odor and hence is disgustingly abhorrent (abominable, detestable); (figuratively) moral horror as a stench to God (like when people refuse to hear and obey His voice).

    https://biblehub.com/greek/946.htm


    2839. koinos
    Strong's Concordance
    koinos: common
    Original Word: κοινός, ή, όν
    Part of Speech: Adjective
    Transliteration: koinos
    Phonetic Spelling: (koy-nos')
    Definition: common
    Usage: (a) common, shared, (b) Hebraistic use: profane; dirty, unclean, unwashed.
    HELPS Word-studies
    2839 koinós – properly, common, referring to what is defiled (stripped of specialness) because treated as ordinary ("common"). 2839 /koinós ("defiled") describes the result of a person reducing what God calls special (holy, set apart) – to what is mundane, i.e. stripping it of its sacredness.

    2839 /koinós ("defiled because treated as common") is always used negatively, i.e. for what is profaned – except in Jude 1:3 where it refers to the gift of salvation shared (held in common) by all true believers.

    [2839 /koinós ("common") typically refers to spiritual desecration. This happens when a person treats what is sacred (set apart to God) as ordinary ("not special").]

    [...]

    Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
    call common, defile, pollute
    From koinos; to make (or consider) profane (ceremonially) -- call common, defile, pollute, unclean.

    see GREEK koinos

    https://biblehub.com/greek/2839.htm


To tie it back to the topic we're posting in, as I mentioned:

      • Deuteronomy 7:26 (NIV)

        26 Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Regard it as vile and utterly detest it, for it is set apart for destruction.


...aside from the sinful attitudes and thoughts of our own hearts, that defile/foul us up, thus why we must receive a new heart from Him, the same goes for junk/unclean thoughts, beliefs, practices of the nations. Such unclean things are waste to be eliminated. Hence Achan (Joshua 7) coming under destruction for trying to salvage the waste (and the junk thoughts attached to it). That needs to be destroyed; it is waste material to be eliminated from the Body / from amongst us.

This reply of mine, in this one small detail, does not do the subject justice which is why I've linked to the topics that cover it more thoroughly (or coming at it from other angles that help give you a more complete picture).

---

Having provided an actual NIV concern, however, the allegations presented in the video are illegitimate as addressed by the in-guild topics I provided for your reading. Extend that scrutiny to YouTube videos as well in the same way you would a pastor. Otherwise, [1] we fail to attack the actual problem and actual wrongdoing, and [2] we discredit what is actually legitimate and free from wrongdoing; we need to be fair/just. And to discern between clean and unclean, between YHWH-imposed vs. self-imposed [and YHWH-imposed vs. rebellious creation imposed]). All three though there is overlap.

      • Acts 17:11 (KJV)

        11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

      • Acts 17:11 (NIV)

        11 Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.



So in summary (of this reply):

And when it comes to allegations of changing doctrines, take a good look to see if that's what they actually did or not.

      • Proverbs 4:2 (KJV)

        2 For I give you good doctrine, forsake ye not my law.


When it appears that they have abandoned good/sound doctrine, define the terms by the sound Biblical definition (as already established by the Law and the Prophets). Check for any footnotes where the translators are alerting you of a manuscript difference or cross references. Look into the Hebrew or Greek of an English translation to see if that allegation is true. An example of a legitimate concern with modern translations that I pointed out is a case of when translating “meaning” instead of “word-for-word” became a problem because they translated a “false traditional interpretation” meaning into the verse but the rest of the Scriptures even in that very modern translation denies it / exposes it as “the translators erred in thinking here or added here” (and the Hebrew and Greek itself exposes it too). Ultimately, English is not the original language these thoughts were preserved in (nor the language that Jesus spoke with the 12 apostles); a rendering in English is not the final verdict. Though thanks to having more than one translation, we are alerted when one translation is adding or taking away (if it did) because of how another reads. That in itself prompts us to dig into the Hebrew and Greek and discover which of the two is doing it or if both are (as is the case with both the KJV and NIV in that example in Hosea 9:3 I provided) or neither of them are adding nor taking away concepts whether because it's [1] merely a manuscript difference or [2] even when particular words, like "et" (את), were dropped they preserved the concept (and ALL English translations do this by virtue of not being Hebrew—but the concept was preserved).

Aside from that, I'm aware that part of the “problem” is that we have a whole collection of books/writings (66) to read through. People in different stages of familiarization may not be aware of certain verses even in a single translation let alone multiple or how the different manuscripts read (those of us who are aware must bring it to each other's awareness in a spirit of peace and gentleness to facilitate that cohesive understanding that Jesus wants us to have. And prevent needless division on a non-issue and/or on the flipside: prevent dangerous “unity” on matters He tells us to depart from). So, I'm not trying to bring an attitude of antagonism against you, just that, like Jesus did with Sadducees, we must correct what is actually deviant in our thinking. otherwise we fail to be just/fair, to guard those who want to sincerely obey what the Creator God says in sound doctrine, and in cohesion; we fail to stop the ignorance/unfamiliarity with the text—with what the author meant—but put needless obstacles to a person reading the Word of God and understanding it, and yes even in their language / level of comprehension (which helps us combat ignorance/unawareness of the text). That is what will once and for all halt the “tossing to and fro” with every wind of doctrine (especially those false doctrines introduced by demons/unclean spirits, preying on our ignorance of the Scriptures [and on our forgetfulness], to keep us in filthy, idolatrous ways.

Planting distrust in God's Commands is one of those demonic winds; and on that point, even when the spoken language of the day was the same language that the Scriptures were written in, it was still an issue to combat then too; so how much more any English translation, a degree removed from the original languages [a few more degrees if it contains back translations of the Latin and not directly translated from the Hebrew or Greek]; it's easy to fall into those traps of “distrust the Word of God”, “those Commands of God aren't actually helping you, they're impeding you” (demonic doctrine since the days of Adam and Eve), “the physical consequences of violating them are no longer real, even if you take a creation and literally use it outside of its proper context” (be it the fruit of a forbidden tree or a bodily fluid we're forbidden from eating). No, the consequences are still there; and if we're acting in a spirit of defiance (or deliberately seeking danger), YHWH doesn't have to show mercy and guard us against it; He might (judging on our level of ignorance and confusion), but the more we know, the less mercy is shown. If we pay attention to Biblical definition, what God said to do, we won't fall for that deception. So let's not preserve the actual demonic thoughts, demonic doctrine, that keeps us from obeying God sincerely, but expose them. It's what the Word of God consecrates and only what the Word of God consecrates that is acceptable for us to consume, take into our being, and become one with; and those doctrines have not been lost, thus why I made it a point to use the NIV in that topic that I've linked to four times now; the same conclusions can be reached even with careful handling of a modern translation (and careful handling of the KJV/older translations in English). There are strengths and weaknesses to both. And at times the modern translations are more accurate, and/or more clearly elucidate a concept that one doesn't readily pick up on with the Old English, but is still there in the Old English, it's just that the flowery language (or euphemism) distracted one from seeing it; and of course preserved in the Hebrew and the Greek as well.

I do hope / expect that this reply in addition to those linked-to topics, where other guild member provided input and historical information, have settled the matter and ease your mind (along with anyone else who may have an unsettled mind over the issue).

Peace be with you. ♡
 

cristobela
Vice Captain

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The Bible

 
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