Where God is in the Supernatural Television series:
Some of you are probably fans of this series and know it like the back of your hand, but one thing I'm sure every Supernatural fan who's gotten past a certain season has wondered where God is in the Supernatural universe. Well, I believe I may have found the answer before it's even answered on television.
Throughout the television series we see Sam, Dean, and Castiel go up against seemingly impossible odds and wonder: Hasn't anyone found it the least bit suspiscious all of the things they've survived and come back from while still having the will and hope to fight another day?
There's been plenty of circumstances in the series that would have broken a normal man's morale down, made them question whether they really want to keep on fighting, but Sam, Dean, and Cas haven't given up yet... and what's stopping them?
Well, the answer may not be as far away as you think.
Now I'm not saying they haven't stopped and wondered. What I'm saying is they've always come back to doing what in the Supernatural series it is they do best: as family and as friends.
Sam, Dean, and Castiel always seem to be drawn back to each other and somehow end up able to save the day in Supernatural.
Sam and Dean still love each other as brothers in spite of everything that's happened.
First Corinthians 13 tells us: If I speak with the tongue of man and of angels, but have not love, I gain nothing.
What does this possibly mean for the series? It means that God is already there! He's always been there. He's always been there, we just haven't physically seen a body that we know of.
The reason the angel says to stop looking in the series isn't because God doesn't want them to find him. It's because he's been there all along, giving our heroes the strength, love, and will they need to save the day.
Much of the cast have searched, but the point is they haven't been looking in the right place. If they can't see what's right in front of them, of course it would be hard to find without thinking about it or having the faith to trust God is there. o:
But hey, that's just a theory: a tv theory. Thanks for reading!
Anyway, I'd love to hear from any of you. What do you think of Supernatural? Do you think this is how God will be portrayed in the series? Do you have anything to add to this, observation or scripture wise or do you think I may be wrong?
I'm aware that whatever the circumstance one should never fight things supernatural alone. I strongly advise against it. Surround yourself with love and hold fast to God. 3nodding Trust in him and trust in his word.
Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:49 am
THIS REPLY WILL CONTAIN FULL-ON SPOILERS. NO APOLOGIES.
Ephesians 5:11-13 (NIV)
11 Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12 It is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13 But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light.
Before I answer your question about the story line, I just want to address something vital so no one misjudges the nature of this reply: Supernatural is an idolatrous source of spirituality that I forsook, and that I have no intention of going back to—neither to fuel my spirituality nor for “fun”—for reasons briefly touched upon in my reply to this topic: [Can Satan, Demons, and Angels Still Show Mercy and Have Feelings like Joy, Sadness, and Fear? ]. This is purely spiritual warfare.
In order to understand what I'll explain and my attitude towards the series, I recommend reading that relatively short reply first.
So, I'm not unfamiliar with Supernatural. I barely hung on long enough to see Season 9, but then had to jump ship. I couldn't handle the Bible-twisting any longer.
For those who are unfamiliar with this TV Show called Supernatural, it is a fictitious series created by Eric Kripke, based on an amalgamation of urban legends and myths that you find across the United States; the story follows two main characters who are brothers, taking vengeance into their own hands against a yellow-eyed demon that killed their mother in their childhood, by traveling across the country to find him, kill him, and along the way kill other mythological creatures that attack human beings); the later seasons, of the originally planned 5 seasons, incorporated a war between heaven and hell, thus borrowing elements not just from the Bible, but from many world religions, mixing it all together as one cohesive storyline, conveying either that they're all equally true (or all equally fictitious depending on your mentality). But of course, in order for this to happen, they must deny details to make one cohesive story out of all of them (thus twist the truth/lie); and by taking from them all, they're faithful to none. Spiritual whoredom.
That said: despite the TV show providing opportunity / making it convenient to get people thinking about God, spirituality, and the spiritual reality around us, in the first place, at the end of the day, it distorts that reality/Biblical truth, thus misleads. God calls us to submit our every thought to His knowledge / His Word...
2 Corinthians 10:5 (NIV)
5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ.
...not allow our thoughts to deviate, nor to respect the distortions they've made, and enjoy that. Any deviation from God's Word is a lie, a false notion of God, an idol, a false belief system, disobedience, that must be destroyed/attacked/rendered useless. Not enjoyed.
Needless to say, I don't think it's healthy for people who are already in the full truth to continue nourishing their inner-being—their hearts and mind—watching a show, filled with half-truths and outright lies (eating spiritual junk food) for fun, for the reasons I stated in the topic above. This is a type of socialization, the company (and thus thoughts) you habitually keep around you, will affect you (as it did me, not just intellectually but in attitudes of the heart, none of us are immune, even the most Biblically astute and sharp in Biblical discernment can, in a moment, be egging on and cheering for something in their heart that God defines as sinful, thus harboring wicked thoughts in their heart. And given enough time, you become accustomed to the deviant idea, view it as “normal”, and your Biblical discernment dulls in that area).
---
In light of that, to answer your question—though you probably already picked up on the answer if you read the topic I linked to at the beginning of this reply—back when Kripke said Season 5 was the series finale, not just SEASON finale, but series finale, he gave the audience a big hint with the final episode. Season 5 ended with the prophet Chuck (Chuck Shurley, pen name Carver Edlund) just poofing into thin air, at the snap of his finger. Was he just a prophet? Clearly, as the scene conveys, he was more. What mere prophet does that, at will? who is he? what is he, really? I knew enough—even as a heathen/pagan at the time—to detect the "Mistress Magda" reference in the scene (because Mary Magdalene is commonly believed to have been a prostitute—this perception of her is not Biblical truth, but commonly believed in pop culture and urban legends [myths]). The fact that Mary Magdalene is a follower of Jesus—coupled together with the details of the scene: “Mistress Madga” and the “the self-willed poofing of Chuck” in the episode—I surmised that Chuck was based off of Jesus. So, Chuck was giving Mistress Magda a call, a booty call (since Mary Magdalene's identity is being depicted as a prostitute on the show, in adherence to the urban legends, not the Bible). Plus, the DaVinci Code really popularized the idea/thought of Jesus having romantic relations with Mary Magdalene (not Biblically accurate, but again, a widely believed thought in popular culture).
That curiosity into "who Chuck was"—he's a prophet, but not just a prophet, he's something more, because that sounds like Jesus, and I've heard Jesus is God. Is that the Trinity? How does that work? I don't know, let's read—was one of the reasons that led me into the study of the Scriptures (not so trusting and loving of the text at the beginning though since I was uncircumcised in heart, and circumcision of the heart is a circumcision only Jesus / YHWH can give) and since I was worldly, I treated it like any other book reading it from the first page; so, it took a while before my initial curiosities were answered, but that was a blessing in disguise: I noticed bodily manifestations of YHWH in the Old Testament (however not via a woman's womb; that would be the unique manifestation He did as Jesus), so by the time I reached the New Testament, it wasn't hard to accept that YHWH—the Most High God—could take on the form of a man.
All that to say, there's your God.
In Supernatural, and again I only saw up to Season 9 so it may have changed, but that translates to Chuck. He incarnated on earth. He's not just a mere prophet like Kevin. He is not a mere mortal being. And no one can see God (the Father). In order to see Him, God must take on a visible form. He is omnipresent/”awareness on” at all times, from every angle of creation, in His presence in another dimension, but He limits Himself (even His total awareness) by manifesting as a man.
Putting aside Chuck (the visible presence of God, thus what we, both the audience and the characters of the show, can see of him) on the show, the closest thing to “God” (the invisible presence, that viewers and characters cannot see) in any scene of the TV Show are the unseen writers themselves. There is the show's creator (Eric Kripke), who sits in His counsel of writers, which is, not exactly but very similar to the concept of YHWH with His counsel of elohim in the skies (a.k.a. in the other dimension up there, out there, somewhere, that we cannot see):
Psalm 82:1 (ESV)
A Psalm of Asaph.
82 God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
Psalm 89:6-8 (ESV)
6 For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord? Who among the heavenly beings[a] is like the Lord, 7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones, and awesome above all who are around him? 8 O Lord God of hosts, who is mighty as you are, O Lord, with your faithfulness all around you?
Footnotes:
a. Psalm 89:6 Hebrew the sons of God, or the sons of might
1 Kings 22:19-23 (NIV)
19 Micaiah continued, “Therefore hear the word of the Lord: I saw the Lord sitting on his throne with all the multitudes of heaven standing around him on his right and on his left. 20 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab into attacking Ramoth Gilead and going to his death there?’
“One suggested this, and another that. 21 Finally, a spirit came forward, stood before the Lord and said, ‘I will entice him.’
22 “‘By what means?’ the Lord asked.
“‘I will go out and be a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all his prophets,’ he said.
“‘You will succeed in enticing him,’ said the Lord. ‘Go and do it.’
23 “So now the Lord has put a deceiving spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours. The Lord has decreed disaster for you.”
The angels and apparently demons (deceiving spirits) throw ideas back and forth, and the Most High (the Creator) decides, okay, let's go with yours; it'll work. Likewise, the writers.
Ergo in the fandom, “In Kripke We Trust” (“In God We Trust”), He's the Writer of their lives, all hail the mighty Kripke (or on Gaia, all hail the mighty Lanzer, who created Gaia [Greek word for “Earth”], and apparently Lanzer is returning to Gaia as revealed in their facebook where the creator of Gaia, or the one in charge in his absence, and his servants communicate his will [if obedient] / their own will [if disobedient/corrupt] to the creations who populate Gaia).
Screenshot (either this person is a Christian or the truth is in their hearts somewhere—as mockery or otherwise):
The creator of a thing is its god. On Supernatural, the way they picked the “look” of Chuck, was very much like Eric Kripke's physical appearance. So, Chuck is the image of the creator (Kripke). Akin to:
Colossians 1:15 (NIV)
15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Eric Kripke is invisible to the Supernatural universe even though he created them. There are other prophets on the show, but no other prophet on the show is a depiction of Kripke (the Writer of the Winchesters'—and everyone else's—lives); prophets just communicate the message and write down the things they see, they don't write the story the way Chuck had been doing. The series even going so far as to depict Chuck, like Kripke, at a convention answering questions about Sam and Dean's life (Season 5, episode 9).So Chuck is definitely the image of the creator (Eric Kripke) of the TV Show Supernatural.
And about “In Kripke We Trust”, I remember hearing that phrase bounced around the fandom and agreeing so hard at the time. Whatever happens, just trust Kripke, he knows what he's doing. This is his baby, this is his creation, he had the whole 5 seasons mapped out before we saw a single second of it.
Of course, that was the story arc for the five seasons. Everything that happened after wasn't originally planned by Kripke. So post 5-years, we get Eric Kripke, as Eric Kripke himself, who is creator of the TV show called Supernatural, appearing in Season 6 of Supernatural (but not really it was an actor playing Kripke) who shows up in Episode 15 (The French Mistake) when Sam and Dean enter our world and everyone thinks Sam and Dean are actors named Jared and Jensen. In reality, Kripke is just a human, who wrote a show, and as it is written in not-holy script (the script of the TV Show, and particularly 6.15's), “Yeah, I think what we might need at this stage is for Kripke to come up himself. He created the show. They'll listen to him.”. (So, Kripke is not THE Creator [YHWH], the Most High, nor the divine incarnation of YHWH on earth [Jesus]), he's merely the creator of the TV Show Supernatural and maybe, knowingly or not, that is why they kill Kripke off, shot dead (no resurrection), just to demonstrate that. But notice the God-like attributes anyway: Jesus in the parable of the tenants, describes a vineyard owner who moves away (His omni-present/aware of everything manifestation in another dimension), sends His Son [manifests on earth as human] and the tenants kill the Son [who is God, just in human form]; the Creator manifests into His creation and they kill Him. Kripke [the creator of the TV Show Supernatural] manifests into his creation [TV Show] and his characters kill him).
Acts 3:15 (NIV)
15 You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.
But that's where the limitations of man's allusion to the Bible ends and the reality of the Bible hits. There's no possible way to depict the physicality of the Father and the Son obediently on film/in image form. The actual Creator is not a mere man (yes, He can insert Himself into His creation [manifesting in visible form, as a man, but even when He does, He's not a mere human, unlike Eric Kripke who clearly is]. And the only time He'll manifest on earth again as a human will be as Jesus Himself returning in the clouds, not as someone else i.e. Chuck, an actor, etc, a different face, a different name).
Acts 1:9-11 (NIV)
9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
10 They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”
Not born as a baby once more, but adult Jesus of Nazareth, coming back in the clouds in the same body He was crucified in, albeit glorified, no longer corrupt/decaying. Which messes up the Supernatural fictional world because Bobby acknowledges that the Bible exists, and if the Bible exists in SPN, then Jesus already incarnated, died, resurrected / raised incorruptible, and then ascended away into the skies 40 days later, so He wouldn't be manifesting as Chuck, because Jesus is not going to be manifesting bodily on earth again as someone else. So, SPN self-conflicts / is not internally-consistent.
Whatever Supernatural ended up portraying after I stopped watching (midway Season 9) and whatever SPN will portray in the future, I don't know how loyal to the Bible it's going to be, but: the Winchesters—just like everyone else—cannot see God seated on His throne in the beyond, as the Father manifestation that is YHWH, even if they wanted to (so much less will they be able to depict that on TV). Not even the four living creatures / seraphim at YHWH's throne know what He looks like, only Jesus (YHWH-incarnate Himself) knows; He is covered by thick darkness—and there's only ONE Way to get to Him.
John 1:18 (NIV)
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and[a] is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Footnotes:
a. John 1:18 Some manuscripts but the only Son, who
1 Kings 8:12 (NIV)
12 Then Solomon said, “The Lord has said that he would dwell in a dark cloud;
Psalm 18:11 (NIV)
11 He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him— the dark rain clouds of the sky.
John 14:6 (NIV)
6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
That's the real answer. Short and sweet.
If SPN even bothers to stick to the details of the Bible in this area, then it will be by Chuck that they—or anyone else—reaches God / gets to see God in the show ([which cannot be portrayed on film anyway—and is disobedient to even try to portray because they won't be able to portray the reality of what He looks like and how that looks like]). And they're already being disobedient and deviant from the Commands by portraying Jesus as Chuck (since we can't make images of God, much less lying about His appearance / failing to truthfully portray His appearance).
Deuteronomy 4:15-18 (NIV)
15 You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the ground or any fish in the waters below.
Psalm 115:2-4 (NIV)
2 Why do the nations say, “Where is their God?” 3 Our God is in heaven; he does whatever pleases him. 4 But their idols are silver and gold, made by human hands.
The nations / gentiles / pagans ask where our God is because, unlike them, we—those obedient to God's Commands—do not make images of the one we worship (unlike the pagans who do). He's not to be confused as some useless idol or fictitious belief. Film is made up of many still images, 36 frames per second (on average), capturing slight deviations of movement to make it look like people are moving. They're not escaping this Command, just finding high-tech ways to break it. There's no Command against preaching about God, but there is a Command against portraying Him visually with our own creations. We can allow Him to mold us into His image, going around in our own human identity—not, "Hey, I'm Jesus of Nazareth, son of Mary and son of God", but "I am a follower of Jesus of Nazareth", as evidenced by how I speak and do, how I interact with all of you.
So, do people want to physically see God? Then they must look at His corporeal manifestation on earth / the “Son” manifestation / God in bodily form, or His unique Son manifestation in bodily form as Jesus—which, by the way, is not the same as a picture of Jesus/YHWH we make with our own hands (on film, TV, painting, sculpture, what have you), but the body that was brought forth into the world via Mary's womb (which no one alive today has seen, so whatever image they make of Him is a lie, and if they see a vision of Him, still, it is disobedient to the Commands—we're not allowed to make images of YHWH, of God. In contrast, the cherubim are not God [thus allowed to depict], the bronze calves under Solomon's basin in the first temple are not YHWH [thus allowed to depict]; the golden calf, however, NO, because that was a depiction of YHWH—forbidden, judged by plague; but fellow saints and mere prophets [not God, allowed to depict also]). On that note, we can also look at His obedient followers who are acting like Him, who are allowing Him to shape them into His image (not the other way around: “we making images of Him”), and thus people be able to see His image in other living beings who have been conformed (back) to His image.
Romans 8:29 (NIV)
29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.
Ephesians 4:22-24 (NIV)
22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
But again, as their own identity, not misleading the simple-minded into thinking (Oh, that's what Jesus of Nazareth looks like, just like in the movie—no you can't know, don't try to depict Him, just display His nature in you as His follower).
This amongst other various flavors of idolatry, in the physical realm and realm of the heart, were addressed in the [Idolatry] topic with more specific Scripture passages and examples.
And as you were describing in your thoughts, in the opening post, aside from physical manifestation, there's the invisible interaction God has with us on earth. God brings us to certain information or certain people, moves us to do things that, unknowingly to you, will benefit (or punish) more than just one person or yourself, or brings others to us, in response to what we pray to Him about, or say or think about, even things we're going through (even if we didn't ask)—(e.g. making the Ethiopian eunuch cross paths with the Book of Isaiah. Then, making Philip cross paths with the Ethiopian to explain the Book of Isaiah to the Ethiopian who didn't fully understand and had more questions i.e. Acts 8:27-35). Ergo, the Writer/Creator commanding things to happen, invisibly behind the scenes, in another realm, the unseen realm—the invisible manifestation that interacts with Earth (the Holy Spirit), and on Supernatural, the writers, in the other realm that the characters cannot see.
Needless to say, I wouldn't get my hopes up that SPN will be Biblically-loyal, judging by how they've treated every other area of the Bible they touch. And I'm not trying to be insulting or pessimistic by making that statement; like you saw, if you read the topic I linked to at the beginning of my reply, I quoted Ben Edlund, one of the writers of the show, admitting they don't adhere to Scripture...and he's surprised that Judeo-Christians don't have more of a negative reaction by how inappropriately they handle Biblical truth.
Even though the writers are openly honest about just being a show, and that they twist the Scriptures by what they portray, there's still a danger—because they do not necessarily warn the viewer of how they deviate, what is truth and what is not, what is occult (and abomination) from what is pleasing in YHWH's sight. Even if there was absolutely no truth whatsoever in the show, sure, the mind can intellectually accept the notion, “I am watching fiction”, but the heart does something else; the heart wants to believe—and, of what it likes, it repeats and accepts as truth, even without comparing it to Scripture. SPN is affecting the thoughts of people's hearts, what they believe about the spiritual realm around us, and their theology.
P.S. - Speaking of the writers of the TV Show (Supernatural), twisting the Bible, I'll explain just some of the ones I've noted, I'll explain six, in more detail below:
1. Gadre'el.
The TV show depicted Gadre'el (the name of the angel which the Book of Enoch identifies as the one who led Eve astray in the Garden) as a separate entity from Satan/the Devil (though the Bible associates the one in the garden who led Eve astray as one and the same as the serpent, Satan, the Devil. So, Biblically, they are not two different entities, but one).
Enoch 69:6
CHAPTER LXIX.
[...]
6. And the third was named Gâdreêl: he it is who showed the children of men all the blows of death, and he led astray Eve, and showed ⌈the weapons of death to the sons of men⌉ the shield and the coat of mail, and the sword for battle, and all the weapons of death to the
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe072.htm
Genesis 3:1 (NIV)
3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”
Revelation 20:2 (NIV)
2 He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
2. “Lucifer”—which one?
SPN (even Christians) call the devil "Lucifer" as a personal name. That is a misnomer because it's merely a Latin word left untranslated in the KJV English of Isaiah 14:12, but when you peer into the Latin Vulgate you see the term gets applied in the New Testament to Jesus as well (in 2 Peter 1:19). So, "lucifer" is NO ONE's personal name. It just refers to a morning star, someone in a high position of prestige and authority over all the others, be it the king of Babylon, the devil (who use to be a morning star) or Jesus. "Lucifer" is just a title the way "sons of God" is a title (the latter of which gets applied to angels, human beings on earth, the king of Israel, and the nation of Israel collectively—but plural form in the Old Testament is always exclusively used of angels that came from the sky).
Screenshots of what I mean concerning the term “Lucifer” in the Latin:
Isaiah 14:12 —
2 Peter 1:19 —
3. Leviathan.
He was an amphibious dinosaur / a fire-breathing, sea serpent that could come up on land, as described in Job 41, but on SPN? SPN depicted Leviathan as a black goo monster that eats itself, and can infect many human vessels. :l Not even close.
4. Bible = source of lies?
Castiel saying such things as, and I quote from “I Believe the Children Are Our Future” season 5, episode 6,
No, of course not. Your Bible gets more wrong than it does right. The antichrist is not Lucifer's child. It's just demon spawn. But it is one of the devil's greatest weapons in the war against heaven. [transcript source]
Really, Castiel, really? Who's the real anti-christ (anti-Word-of-God) here? Whoever wrote Castiel's lines.
2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV)
16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
There are no false statements in the Bible if all of it can be used for correcting and righteousness.
On a related note:
5. Antichrist
Yes, there's one guy in specific to look out for, but antichrist is not a supernatural creature—i.e. a half-human, half-demon, spawned by human womb—like Jesse was portrayed on the show. It's anyone who denies the Word of God, who denies that Jesus is the Messiah, and denies that He ever came in the flesh.
1 John 2:18 (NIV)
18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
John 1:1 (NIV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:14 (NIV)
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
2 John 1:7 (NIV)
7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.
1 John 2:22 (NIV)
22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus isthe Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
1 John 4:3 (NIV)
3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
6. Demons.
Demons are not, have never been, nor ever will be, human spirits who became demons after enough torture in hell. Although the Bible is silent on any explicit, direct description of the origin of demonic spirits, same with the origins of the giants—it merely mentions their existence—if you're aware of the non-canonical books the writers had in mind, you are able to pick up on what the Biblical authors were implying by the vague, summarized mentioning of the Sons of God taking on human wives, the angels that left their habitation, the giants, etc. That non-canonical book being the Book of Enoch. The Book of Enoch is the only one that gives an explicit description of both of their origins: that demons are the evil spirits that came up out of the bodies of the giants, the giants being the offspring that were begotten by the angels with human women [explained in Enoch 6, the more detailed description of events documented in Genesis 6; the giants and evil spirits that came from them, get described in Enoch 15-16]. Those unclean spirits were already demonic; they didn't need to be tortured in hell, didn't even go to hell, they came out of their bodies already as demons:
From the Book of Enoch:
CHAPTER VI.
1. And it came to pass when the children of men had multiplied that in those days were born unto them beautiful and comely daughters. 2. And the angels, the children of the heaven, saw and lusted after them, and said to one another: 'Come, let us choose us wives from among the children of men and beget us children.' [...]
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe009.htm
CHAPTER XV.
1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. 2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: "You should intercede"⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you: 3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons? 4. And
p. 43
though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish. 5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth. 6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. 7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling. 8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. 9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called. [10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] 11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe018.htm
CHAPTER XVI. From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death ⌈of the giants⌉, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement--thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great ⌈judgement⌉ in which the age shall be consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated." 2. And now as to the Watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been ⌈⌈aforetime⌉⌉ in heaven, (say to
p. 44
them): "You have been in heaven, but ⌈all⌉ the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth." 4. Say to them therefore: "You have no peace."'
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe019.htm
Ultimately, however, we're not to associate (closely tie ourselves as allies) with what is deviant from Scripture. Although God may be using this, like He uses anyone's evil, for His good purposes, it doesn't excuse their sin just because it results in good in the end. And it's not an excuse for us, just because they include YHWH amidst the bunch, to affiliate with the idolatry-fest that is Supernatural; what this show is doing is very wrong):
1 Timothy 4:7 (NIV)
7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives’ tales; rather, train yourself to be godly.
Exodus 23:32-33 (NIV)
32 Do not make a covenant with them or with their gods. 33 Do not let them live in your land or they will cause you to sin against me, because the worship of their gods will certainly be a snare to you.”
Romans 6:1-2 (NIV)
6 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?
And Supernatural (the TV show) cannot exist without incorporating false ideas of God, urban legends, godless myths and old wives' tales. So, should it be a part of our lives? The show has definitely become a snare: instead of defeating the false beliefs, and identifying YHWH as the one to whom all worship should go to, submitting to His truth, they ignore parts of His Truth, they make it seem like they're all equally legitimate—or, on the flip side, that they're all equally myth.
To the one who is fully in the truth, there is no gain to them personally watching Supernatural, just detriment and pain (it's quite impossible to enjoy what they portray once you realize the true nature of what they're doing, and how they mislead, say things directly attacking the Bible).
To the one who is totally blind, the small bits of truth could give them the curiosity to dig into Scripture, as was the case for me—as a heathen and a spiritual whore, who honored many superstitions and once thought Jesus was just another sun god (thanks to the Catholic Church giving Christian signification to pagan spiritual practices and symbols [sun disks, Mithra's birthday / December 25th birth date of a god, Yule, yuletide carols, yule logs, that honor Odin, evergreen trees inside the house / Teutonic nature worship practices, etc] that all precede Christ and are absent from the Commands of YHWH, but not just absent, are even contrary to the Commands of YHWH where He says to not adopt the ways of the nations [but I didn't know that until I saw Christians pointing it out, so I didn't see Jesus as unique, as I should have, almost dismissed Him as real or just viewed Him as an extension of pagan myths], and no thanks to most Protestants, despite "protesting" against the Catholic Church, most of them kept her harlotries, amongst them the idolatrous sun god traditions)—but once out of the darkness (guided into light by reading the Bible and accepting the full message), it became torment to watch the show when my heart's desire was to be loyal to YHWH alone and only recognize truth, have no evil/deviant/pagan thoughts/remnants of demon worship in my heart, no more lies. The Holy Spirit does not rest if there's evil afoot (and you haven't been ignoring His voice/quench Him), so He keeps reminding you, when sin pops up crossing your path, of something you had read, to keep you from accepting the thought; the more sin that is present, the more the siren goes off, the less enjoyable the environment in your inner-being becomes:
wahmbulance this over here is sin (x 10), wahmbulance that over there is sin (x 10), wahmbulance that thing they're portraying as Biblical is not even in the Bible, wahmbulance that comment is belittling what the Bible does say, wahmbulance do not consult demons for anything, wahmbulance do not eat literal blood, (Sam stare) wahmbulance do not have sex with angels, (Dean stare) wahmbulance do not have sex with demons (Sam stare) wahmbulance don't be gluttonous like Dean, wahmbulance do not lust with your eyes, wahmbulance don't have sex with animals (Sam stare — werewolf girl) wahmbulance avoid the sexual innuendo and other profane speech (is there an episode that lacks it? If there is, the fans will add it in for you as they talk about [and lust over] the characters and actors—their fiction, their idols, their myths, that they'd rather believe and spend their mental strength understanding, in place of the reality that the Bible—what the actual Word of God—says, all of it).
And other such bombardment of corrective thoughts.
The Bible's relation to the TV show Supernatural, is just a "source material" to use for their blasphemy because they distort it and depict YHWH / YHWH-incarnate / Jesus as if He were just one of many other idols. They are walking in the same vein as Sennacherib of Assyria (albeit used by God as a hammer in His hands against other idolaters) suffered in the long run for having such blasphemous thoughts (i.e. 2 Kings 18:32b-19:37).
I see you posted this topic a week prior to your [How do you keep from cussing?] topic, but it's worth reiterating like I told you there: as Scripture warns, it's naïve to think that what we immerse ourselves in constantly won't affect the way we think and speak. It will. And TV Shows that we habitually tune into and just sit there, eating it all in, our hearts are being nourished by it, getting lost in the excitement, high production value, witty banter, laughter; they are no different than hanging out with people (who communicate thoughts to us in live-action in front us). Whether the words are spoken and the acts carried out in person, or behind a screen, or in the eye of the imagination, it has the same effect to the inner-being—so they better be Biblical, Commandment-honoring thoughts or we will have our thinking distorted, undercut by doubt, and deviant ideas. If deviant ideas are what we habitually dwell on, we can become deviant in thought and action, straying from the details in the Bible/reality.
Some topics that meditate further concerning this are: [TV's role in shaping public opinion], and [Witchcraft: what is it, Biblically?], referring to the last reply by real eyes realize (my old account) specifically, in the latter topic, but everyone who contributed gave useful insights to consider about witchcraft itself and witchcraft in entertainment.
Short answer: Chuck, but the way they've handled it is blasphemy (like Sennacherib, likening the Most High to the idols of the other nations), not to mention, disobedient to the other Commands too.
cristobela Vice Captain
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cristobela Vice Captain
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Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 9:24 pm
edited to put a spoiler tag (& clarify the condemnation of consulting the stars in Jer 8:2)
NOTE: this will overlap with certain themes and verses that I sent you in PM's because I wrote most of this reply prior to those conversations. This reply was intended to be posted on the same day as my reply above. But the PM's delayed finishing that. Despite certain themes and verses repeating, I'll leave those parts in anyway, in case it is useful to someone else in the guild—plus they are still relevant to the exposé of SPN and what I crossed paths with that led to the meditation in the first place.
exclaimideaexclaim
In the process of verifying the end of season 5, I came across Chuck's little closing speech at the end of “Swan Song” (the final episode of Season 5, which at the time everyone believed was the series finale—ergo, people are emotional, and not in their most logical state of mind to pick up on any deviant statements). This speech is an example of what I mean by subtle, straying thoughts that people don't catch and end up adopting into their mentality/perspectives/”way of viewing” what is right—because it looks and sounds innocent and feel-good (thus the danger of watching and filling one's heart with this), but compared to Scripture, it's idolatrous.
Straight from the transcript:
CHUCK (VOICEOVER): So, what's it all add up to? It's hard to say. But me, I'd say this was a test... for Sam and Dean. And I think they did all right. [Flashbacks play.] Up against good, evil, angels, devils, destiny, and God himself, they made their own choice. They chose family. And, well... isn't that kinda the whole point?
Sure, everyone is tested and makes a choice, but Sam and Dean did not choose "all right" if they chose family over God, if they chose “the family business” over doing things the Way YHWH Commands (which clearly say to avoid the occult, repent of it, not continue resorting to it to resolve anything).
If you didn't catch the deviance, here it is:
Choose family over everything—no matter what comes your way (good, evil, devils, destiny, and even God Himself)...? They passed the test? Good job? Well done my good and faithful servant because you chose your brother over...Me? because you allied yourself to fallen angels and demons (rebellious creations), had sex with fallen angels and with demons, resorted to the occult, and rebellious creations for satisfaction? And because of all that—you did "all right"? You loved something on earth or something in heaven more than Me and My Instruction? over what I tell you is right/caring to do? So you chose "all right"?
Psalm 73:25 (NIV)
25 Whom have I in heaven but you? And earth has nothing I desire besides you.
That is what it's really all about. Proving we love nothing (and no one)—on earth nor in heaven—more than the Creator. This is demonstrated by submitting all desires, thoughts, and actions to what He tells us to do—not allowing those earthly things and beings (or other heavenly things and heavenly beings) to determine how we walk/choose, over and above YHWH's Commands). That is what it's all about. And that's the actual test:
Deuteronomy 8:2 (NIV)
2 Remember how the Lord your God led you all the way in the wilderness these forty years, to humble and test you in order to know what was in your heart, whether or not you would keep his commands.
Deuteronomy 13:3 (NIV)
3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The Lord your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.
In essence, what loving man (or family) over God means: is that when they're wrong, idolatrous, disobedient to His Commands, you choose to heed their “contrary” advice/suggestions/ideas/persuasion anyway and ignore His Commands (His Commands being what keeps everybody safe in the first place). Adam and Eve and all of their descendants are being tested. When you think about it, all of Adam and Eve's descendants could be said to be a part of Adam's family. But do you side with his family when they disagree with God? No. Unless you want sin, death, decay, sickness, and other negative repercussions to result across all of creation. What this is all about is proving our loyalty to our Creator and expressing true care (as He defined) to His creations and to Him. Instead of selfishly—because of self-pleasure/self-gratification—hanging on to created things and deviant ways of doing regardless of the consequences that He warns against.
Oh, the heavy feeling of having to witness a character, who is clearly somewhat modeled after Jesus / the Word of God, say such undiscerning things—when the actual Jesus says the opposite; you cannot pick family (or anything) over God—ever—assuming you truly care about anyone at all. The real Jesus would not call Sam and Dean's choices "all right".
Matthew 10:37-38 (NIV)
37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
Matthew 19:17 (NIV)
17 “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”
So, no, not "family over everything". But God over everything and everyone. God over that temptation to sin. God over that sentimental, but sinful, thing. God over that forbidden fruit (which you want for some carnal pleasure, but it has negative long-lasting consequences to yourself and others, bodily and mentally, which you do not have the foresight to understand just all the ways this negatively affects everything in creation—in ripple effects—ergo God's Command against it!).
Examples from Scripture:
When your father is an idolater and God sends you to destroy the family idols, you do not say, "but I cannot disrespect my earthly father in that way, by obeying You and Your Commands God, to destroy this family tradition, noooo, I can't, that's wrong, how dishonorable". On the contrary, you better go destroy that altar to baal and that asherah pole in your house if you truly love (1) YHWH (and His reputation) and (2) care about your fellow man—which includes saving your father and his whole household from YHWH's wrath by destroying the family idols.
Judges 2:11-13 (NIV)
11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of the Lord and served the Baals. 12 They forsook the Lord, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused the Lord’s anger 13 because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths.
Judges 6:25-27 (NIV)
25 That same night the Lord said to him, “Take the second bull from your father’s herd, the one seven years old.[a] Tear down your father’s altar to Baal and cut down the Asherah pole[b] beside it. 26 Then build a proper kind of[c] altar to the Lord your God on the top of this height. Using the wood of the Asherah pole that you cut down, offer the second[d] bull as a burnt offering.”
27 So Gideon took ten of his servants and did as the Lord told him. But because he was afraid of his family and the townspeople, he did it at night rather than in the daytime.
Footnotes:
a. Judges 6:25 Or Take a full-grown, mature bull from your father’s herd b. Judges 6:25 That is, a wooden symbol of the goddess Asherah; also in verses 26, 28 and 30 c. Judges 6:26 Or build with layers of stone an d. Judges 6:26 Or full-grown; also in verse 28
Numbers 25:3 (NIV)
3 So Israel yoked themselves to the Baal of Peor. And the Lord’s anger burned against them.
Numbers 25:7-9 (NIV)
7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear into both of them, right through the Israelite man and into the woman’s stomach. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.
Destroy completely, burn, what's idolatrous, establish the pure truth of YHWH instead. Save the people from God's wrath / plagues / anger / jealousy. You won't be able to save everyone—because God's jealousy is already burning against them, and others are unredeemable in their stubborn / defiant pursuit of what's adulterous against God (so, ruin them, invalidate them), but save the surviving ones by eliminating what is idolatrous.
Even if your grandmother is the queen mother, and a reigning authority in your house, if she is an idolatress, you better remove her from that position of authority and destroy her idolatry from the place too:
1 Kings 15:13 (NIV)
13 He even deposed his grandmother Maakah from her position as queen mother, because she had made a repulsive image for the worship of Asherah. Asa cut it down and burned it in the Kidron Valley.
All deviated depictions of Creator must be destroyed. The idea they represent is wrong and misleads about the true nature of the Creator, what He actually Commands, and the actual spirits behind witchcraft and idolatry. Her being your elder, or prestigious in society, all of that doesn't matter when she is committing a capital sin against YHWH and against His people by misleading them into the worship of idols / false notions of YHWH, and into paganism. She's leading them into the honoring of demons and of false thoughts who do not lead into true safety (neither the spirits themselves nor do the customs that honor them—not to mention, those customs that honor them arouse God's jealousy)!
The New Testament is no different:
1 Corinthians 10:19-22 (NIV)
19 Do I mean then that food sacrificed to an idol is anything, or that an idol is anything? 20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons. 21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord’s table and the table of demons. 22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?
Revelation 2:18-25 (NIV)
18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write:
These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19 I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first.
20 Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21 I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22 So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.
24 Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25 except to hold on to what you have until I come.’
I don't think people realize this, but God's jealousy is worse than His wrath/anger:
Proverbs 27:4 (WEB)
4 Wrath is cruel, and anger is overwhelming; but who is able to stand before jealousy?
And as demonstrated by the verses in Revelation, Jesus punishes idolatry to death even if we're in His church and believe He is Lord and Savior. So even when fellow believers (brothers and sisters in the faith) defend the idolatrous practice, we cannot side with them if we care about their well-being and God's reputation. Whoever doesn't repent will suffer.
And the Commands that all of this is based on:
God said not to side with family (nor even close friends) when they're idolatrous, but hand them over to the authorities to be put to death. In Spirit, being put to death is equivalent to removing them and invalidating what they say, so they are ruined/destroyed/rendered useless and void/powerless, not influential, and their idolatry destroyed along with them—idols and idolaters eliminated or removed from the community that is set-apart to God—for their defiant pursuit of what God said is a sin deserving death. And why is idolatry so severe that it merits death like murder deserves? Because idolatry is equivalent to murdering others (unlawfully killing others) due to the fact that it leads blameless others to their death and spiritual death (as a natural consequence of the sinful act OR by arousing God's violent jealousy against them, the household, and the community). They're not leading to eternal life nor guarding the community's welfare.
Deuteronomy 13:6-11 (NIV)
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
As an aside, and to be clear, the authorities of God's set-apart community, who sit at the gates (they are the judges), and the judicial procedures of His Law are involved, it's not just, "hey I saw you" *throws rock* all willy-nilly. To explain the legal requirements of stoning to death:
Deuteronomy 17:2-7 (NIV)
2 If a man or woman living among you in one of the towns the Lord gives you is found doing evil in the eyes of the Lord your God in violation of his covenant, 3 and contrary to my command has worshiped other gods, bowing down to them or to the sun or the moon or the stars in the sky, 4 and this has been brought to your attention, then you must investigate it thoroughly. If it is true and it has been proved that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, 5 take the man or woman who has done this evil deed to your city gate and stone that person to death. 6 On the testimony of two or three witnesses a person is to be put to death, but no one is to be put to death on the testimony of only one witness. 7 The hands of the witnesses must be the first in putting that person to death, and then the hands of all the people. You must purge the evil from among you.
Deuteronomy 19:18-19 (NIV)
18 The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against a fellow Israelite, 19 then do to the false witness as that witness intended to do to the other party. You must purge the evil from among you.
Note: this is all assuming YHWH's Law is the law of the land, thus a Sanhedrin (courts based on His Law) are in place—up and running—not the courts of the gentiles (literally “[goyim]”, nations, thus the other nations that are not Israel] based on other laws, gentiles laws (in which case you submit to the gentile government you're living under, as Romans 13 describes—however, even the gentiles bear the sword; they can put you to death too for what are capital sins/transgression of their laws). If it's YHWH's Law as the law of the land: the accused will face a careful investigation, a trial, and put to death if they're found guilty—assuming there are sufficient witnesses (two to three truthful witnesses; if anyone turns out to be a false witness though...they get put to death instead; there is no tolerance for false accusations).
And the witnesses seeking to condemn a fellow Israelite to death must be actual witnesses, not fellow participants of the crime who then betray fellow accomplices, but witnesses, people who actually saw the sin committed and are uninvolved in the case in any other way; otherwise, if they participated along with the accused in the act, in that specific case, then all of them are getting stoned to death if they prosecute that case because they are not witnesses but participants e.g. Judah and Tamar, Judah wanting Tamar burned to death for committing prostitution when he was the one who slept with her e.g. Genesis 38:15-26, and I suspect it's the same situation with the Pharisees and the adulterous woman i.e. John 8:3-11).
Also, "bowing down to idols", in spirit, includes submitting to false / straying ideas, making it look like God is just an idol, and that the practices of the pagans are equally valid and okay to do—even if you weren't relating to their decorations as your god, even if you don't give the same meaning they give it.
1 Corinthians 8:10 (NIV)
10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols?
You may not see it a certain way, but keep in mind what exactly your actions and participation may communicate to others (i.e. that given the pagan context and pagan decoration in front of you, the paganism is alright to engage in, even if you don't believe that). And that pagan context can never be removed (that's why God calls for us to destroy pagan religion, leaving no remnants of the spiritually-significant practices of the pagans in our lives, nothing alive/extant to re-purpose certain elements and refit it for the worship of YHWH/Jesus):
Deuteronomy 12:2-4 (NIV)
2 Destroy completely all the places on the high mountains, on the hills and under every spreading tree, where the nations you are dispossessing worship their gods. 3 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and burn their Asherah poles in the fire; cut down the idols of their gods and wipe out their names from those places.
4 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way.
Deuteronomy 12:30-31 (NIV)
30 and after they have been destroyed before you, be careful not to be ensnared by inquiring about their gods, saying, “How do these nations serve their gods? We will do the same.” 31 You must not worship the Lord your God in their way, because in worshiping their gods, they do all kinds of detestable things the Lord hates. They even burn their sons and daughters in the fire as sacrifices to their gods.
People in Adam's family even worship the sun and the stars, and worship their images of their gods under spreading trees (so we should not adopt customs that mimic their falsities—even if we change the meaning, or focus, to YHWH/Jesus).
note: the following examples I'm about to show are of Israelites who maintained the same meaning as the pagans. As you saw above, however, the meaning we give is irrelevant—we cannot copy their pagan spiritual practices in any way, even if we make it about Jesus:
Jeremiah 8:2 (NIV)
2 They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens, which they have loved and served and which they have followed and consulted and worshiped. They will not be gathered up or buried, but will be like dung lying on the ground.
1 Kings 14:23 (NIV)
23 They also set up for themselves high places, sacred stones and Asherah poles on every high hill and under every spreading tree.
Isaiah 57:8 (NIV)
8 Behind your doors and your doorposts you have put your pagan symbols. Forsaking me, you uncovered your bed, you climbed into it and opened it wide; you made a pact with those whose beds you love, and you looked with lust on their naked bodies..
So, for example, bringing in an evergreen tree inside the house, putting an image of Jesus (God) underneath it...? Putting a wreath on our door? Where does any of that come from? Not from the Commands of God. But they are found as the spiritually-significant practices of the pagan religions and nature worshipers around us (even Scriptural examples of idol worshipers who are documented as worshiping their idols beneath trees!). So those practices cannot be a part of our lives / mimicked in any way, even if family tells us to do it or that it is okay. God says no.
edit to clarify Jeremiah 8:2: Not just outright bowing down before the stars and planets, but consulting the celestial objects here is condemning astrology, making birth charts, trying to fortune tell your life by the stars, horoscopes, will I have a good day today? Who should I marry? Will year 39 of my life be prosperous? Let's consult the stars.
As an aside, even things that were Commanded by God (thus originally belong to God), but not Commanded to be done forever, if they are given an idolatrous use, they must be destroyed from amongst us, according to Scripture.
Numbers 21:8-9 (NIV)
8 The Lord said to Moses, “Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live.” 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
2 Kings 18:4 (NIV)
4 He removed the high places, smashed the sacred stones and cut down the Asherah poles. He broke into pieces the bronze snake Moses had made, for up to that time the Israelites had been burning incense to it. (It was called Nehushtan.[a])
Footnotes:
a. 2 Kings 18:4 Nehushtan sounds like the Hebrew for both bronze and snake.
So how much more when God didn't Command it, and it's being given an idolatrous use in society? Not redeemable. It is a cursed object to be destroyed from amongst us.
Furthermore, wanting to participate in the traditions of another god or of another spirit (or submitting to another philosophy, or another Jesus whose characteristics and sayings go contrary to the one of Scripture) qualifies as worshiping another god too. And there's the danger (it's so subtle, especially if it comes in Jesus' Name and you think, "but I can't give it up, nor speak bad about it, for its deviance from the Commands, or else I'm disrespecting Jesus"—no, actually for accepting a false depiction of Jesus you're disrespecting the actual Biblical Jesus:
2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (NIV)
3 But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.
Galatians 1:6-8 (NIV)
6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
Matthew 15:3 (NIV)
3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?
What gospel of God allows for the mixing of all beliefs into one? What gospel of Jesus allows us to associate with the spiritual symbols, practices (and/or beliefs) of the pagans? What gospel of YHWH says "family above all"—that pleasing family/man (or your own lusts of the flesh) is more important than pleasing God? What gospel of Jesus has you denying the Commands of the Father for the sake of our traditions? Not the gospels of the Bible. So, even if someone is "in the family" (literal or spiritual), we cannot side with them if they're influencing us to sin (go against God's Commands); we must choose what's right over and above family, we must side with what God says over relatives, even friends.
So if Dean pulls up saying, "hey, let's summon a demon [Crowley] or consult a psychic [Pamela]", Sam should be saying, "No, that's just going to cause more problems then solve them, that's why there's a Command against witchcraft, mediumship / trying to contact the dead, and worshiping other gods or adopting the practices used to honor them. Demons are no good at all. Not to mention we arouse God's jealousy and He sends judgment against us".
Not:
"well, Dean is my brother and close friend so, I have to do what he says. He's my blood! Let's keep alive these family traditions—no matter how pagan, disobedient to the Commands they are. On top of that, another 'good' idea, yes Dean, let's pursue petty vengeance ourselves and NOT leave it in the hands of the proper authorities (earthly—nor heavenly/divine [when the earthly one's fail])."
Proverbs 24:29 (NIV)
29 Do not say, “I’ll do to them as they have done to me; I’ll pay them back for what they did.”
Romans 12:19 (NIV)
19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.
Footnotes:
a. Romans 12:19 Deut. 32:35
Matthew 8:28-29 (NIV)
28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes,[a] two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29 “What do you want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?”
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 8:28 Some manuscripts Gergesenes; other manuscripts Gerasenes
There will come a day when Jesus tortures these demons. Sam and Dean did not have to figure out a way to kill any yellow-eyed demon. Yes, exorcise demons like the disciples did, and save people from their torment (and while you're at it preach the gospel to them so they can get in-dwelled by the Holy Spirit; thus, receive the power to put the misdeeds of their flesh to death, stop living a life of a sin, and so avoid the judgments that God sends on earth while they live—not to mention stop getting possessed by demons); there's a whole ministry for exorcising demons by fasting, praying, casting out demons in Jesus' Name. But it's not in man's jurisdiction (nor ability) to go out and kill the demon or torture them for what they did to us. Or seek personal vengeance, in place of justice through the proper authorities God has established. What impression is the TV Show Supernatural leaving on the viewer? Be a rebellious, vengeful vigilante that disrespects the authority God established.
Romans 13:1-2 (NIV)
13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
If in a moment we're cheering for Sam and Dean's success as they pursue disobedience / sin, vigilante justice, then we're cheering their sin on, approving of their sin in our hearts, going against God's Commands. We're sinning along with them in the thoughts of our heart for wishing them success in their sin.
"Family over everything" without a doubt, is definitely a core message to the TV Show Supernatural (and is an idea that Eric Kripke finds important himself, ergo why his show conveys such a message). But that's the problem. He's twisting Scripture to suit his deviant-to-the-Commands beliefs, and plant those thoughts into the hearts and minds of others. There comes a time when siding with your brother is sinful and not of God (when he asks you to come do all these unlawful, idolatrous, occult things). A person who is not well-equipped with the Word of God will fall for the deception (just as vulnerable is the one who has the double-edged Sword of God but doesn't wield it the moment they have to make a decision, a reaction, or allow a thought into their heart).
When left to our own defenses, we think, "what can be wrong with family over everything"? To the heart it sounds nice, but it's not reality, nor the most caring thing, when your family is pursuing criminal activity, encouraging people to pursue the occult and idolatry (what is causing all their problems in the first place instead of leaving it behind), keeping spiritual practices with traces of demon worship in them (which incurs God's jealousy), and start calling evil (Satan/Gadre'el, Cain, Blood eaters, fornicators, etc) as "good" and calling good (God/the Word of God, sexual purity, holy living, etc) "bad".
All this lengthy explanation to illustrate why one measly little line of un-holy script (TV Show) is deviant and dangerous emotion_sweatdrop. This is why I gave up the show. It wasn't just one sentence while you watched. You never knew when it was coming, when they were manipulating your emotions to make it easier to accept a deviant thought, or attitude. Such well-crafted, subtle perversion of truth, seduction (in every sense of the word) to sin and agree with sin as something to be enjoyed, that if you weren't 100% alert, BOOM, the thought has entered your heart and been accepted by your heart, so close to the truth that it sounds right, and feels right, but no, it is not—not when you compare it to the Word of God. It deviates from the Commands and the rest of the Word of God. We do not side with family over everything, but God over everything even if that means not sticking with certain people of Adam's family, or our own close relatives, if they won't repent.
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