Trump Isn't the Antichrist but He Is Anti-Christ | Page 1 | News with a Christian perspective | Guild Forums

Garland-Green

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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:22 am

BY ERIC SAPP , OP-ED CONTRIBUTOR
Feb 10, 2017 | 7:41 AM

A few weeks ago, I was reading a piece on President Trump's inner circle. The story talked about how Trump's son-in-law saved the family fortune by selling their real-estate holdings and investing them all in a single building: 666 Fifth Avenue ... and how he then leveraged the profits from 666 Fifth Avenue to buy a new property adjoining the family's $666 million development in New Jersey.

Read more at: link

Comment: it is an odd reading of Revelation 13:18 making someone draw these kinds of conclusions. It is a number particularly connected to The Antichrist, not all anti Christs. It's borderlining on superstition to make these kinds of claims and attempt to draw these kinds of connections.

Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:20 pm

Okay, let's be fair (and this coming from someone who didn't vote, so I have no strong ties to defending or condemning Trump either way):

Trump being an Anti-Christ?

First of all, this soundbite of “not needing to ask God for forgiveness” that they're attributing to Trump is unfair, once you verify and read the full quote of what Trump said—instead of the way the headlines articulated it or paraphrased it. It's clear that Trump is not denying the need to ask for forgiveness nor denying the need for Jesus' atonement sacrifice [Trump believes in God, but hasn't sought forgiveness] (even the title of that 2015 article is misleading once you read its contents).

What his words sound like is that Trump prefers to right his wrongs instead of asking forgiveness. And maybe he's too prideful to articulate seeking forgiveness from God in that way (or doesn't know what it means, or is too Biblically unfamiliar to articulate it in the Biblical way), but considers himself asking forgiveness every time he eats “my little cracker” (the unleavened bread) and drinks "my little wine" (the symbolic blood of Christ of the New Covenant, thus proclaiming Christ's death, and that he came in the flesh).

Quote:

Trump, who told CNN earlier that he is both anti-abortion and anti-same-sex marriage, said people are surprised to learn about his Christian faith.

"People are so shocked when they find ... out I am Protestant. I am Presbyterian. And I go to church and I love God and I love my church," he said.

Moderator Frank Luntz asked Trump whether he has ever asked God for forgiveness for his actions.

"I am not sure I have. I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don't think so," he said. "I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don't bring God into that picture. I don't."

Trump said that while he hasn't asked God for forgiveness, he does participate in Holy Communion.

"When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"

Who is antichrist?

1 John 4:3 (NIV)

3 but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.
1 John 2:22 (NIV)

22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:7 (NIV)

7 I say this because many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Does Trump fit that description? No. He just sounds ignorant of Biblical doctrines.

Sin in Trump

Having said that, yes, Trump does have idolatry and unsanctified thoughts ruminating in his heart, due to clear ignorance of what the Bible says, and contamination from the worldly and carnal ways of thinking that he still has, as evidenced by what he speaks.

Luke 6:45 (NIV)

45 A good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and an evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For the mouth speaks what the heart is full of.

I can understand (not approving, but understand) why he may not be as Biblically literate as others however:

Matthew 6:24 (NIV)

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

...for a person of his success in the world, being as rich as he is, running so many businesses, making so many deals, I'm surprised he even finds the time to go to church, let alone meditate on the Bible. He has a faith that is not very knowledgeable of the Scriptures, because of how he invests his time and into what he invests his time, instead of the Word of God directly, but it certainly sounds like (and looks like) Trump wants to honor God in a truthful way, with the little that he does know. However, is Trump denying that Jesus came in the flesh? No. What's clear is that Trump doesn't have very deep knowledge of Scripture despite being a Protestant (and no doubt influenced by his worldly friendships and sources of worldly, carnal thoughts still in his life).

That established, I know that YHWH does not honor idolatrous kings in the long run, especially those making alliances with the idolatrous nations and thus being friends with the world (i.e. the joint conference that took place yesterday with Japan's prime minister, Shinzo Abe, solidifying the US-Japan alliance and Trump expressing the respect that the American people have for Japan's traditions, albeit he did not say that he personally had respect for their traditions [Remarks by President Trump and Prime Minister Abe of Japan in Joint Press Conference]). I'm not sure what to make of the gentile kings: it is prophesied that they will join together in alliance. Though it seems that Trump wants to separate himself from globalism so that's a good thing. Trump's idolatry/greed and unclean thoughts are an area of concern, no doubt about it, and we should pray that God helps him in those areas, but I would not go so far as to say that he is an “antichrist” the way John, the beloved disciple, defines it.

Error in this Article

❧ Eye for an Eye

Like I said, let's be fair: the discernment of this author is not the best either. Some of the things he condemned in Trump are actually Biblically righteous.

The justice system/government is supposed to utilize “eye for an eye”. So if Trump is going to be that way, then he might as well be in government.

Exodus 21:22-25 (NIV)

22 “If people are fighting and hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely[a] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman’s husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.

Footnotes:

a. Exodus 21:22 Or she has a miscarriage

This is why the government bears the sword.

Romans 13:1-6 (NIV)

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing.

The author of this article is demonizing what is righteous in God's sight. Personal vengeance no, but fair justice in the courts and by government, yes. And if that's what the author meant to condemn (personal vengeance) he didn't do a good job of separating his condemnation of personal vengeance from the verse being misquoted (assuming personal vengeance is what Trump was describing as opposed to taking people to court, in a righteous fashion to establish justice, which is also righteous in God's sight. The thing about Trump is he's not the most eloquent speaker, but blunt, and his phrasing vague enough to be misinterpreted, even if what he's describing is not necessarily sinful, but a Biblically-approved idea in its essence. His remarks could equally be describing justice in the courts: "when people wrong you, go after those people, because it is a good feeling and because other people will see you doing it. I always get even,").

If it's outside of the courts, then it's mere, petty vengeance. If it's in the courts, then it's justice. Do people not realize this? If the "avenger of blood" (in YHWH's Law) kills the murderer, that's not man's vengeance even though it was one man killing another man. Why? Because this is a govt-approved channel for vengeance (justice), lawful vengeance, not unlawful vengeance—just like there is lawful killing (justice), vs. unlawful killing (murder).

Numbers 35:19 (NIV)

19 The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death; when the avenger comes upon the murderer, the avenger shall put the murderer to death.
Numbers 35:27 (NIV)

27 and the avenger of blood finds them outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder.

Similarly, when God says He is a God of vengeance, obviously He is talking about rendering justice, divine justice.

Isaiah 35:4 (NIV)

4 say to those with fearful hearts,
“Be strong, do not fear;
your God will come,
he will come with vengeance;
with divine retribution
he will come to save you.”
Deuteronomy 32:39-41 (NIV)

39 “See now that I myself am he!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,
I have wounded and I will heal,
and no one can deliver out of my hand.
40 I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear:
As surely as I live forever,
41 when I sharpen my flashing sword
and my hand grasps it in judgment,
I will take vengeance on my adversaries
and repay those who hate me.

And sometimes He uses our nation's leaders to do that...

Numbers 31:3 (NIV)

3 So Moses said to the people, “Arm some of your men to go to war against the Midianites so that they may carry out the Lord’s vengeance on them.
Jeremiah 51:11 (NIV)

11 “Sharpen the arrows,
take up the shields!
The Lord has stirred up the kings of the Medes,
because his purpose is to destroy Babylon.
The Lord will take vengeance,
vengeance for his temple.

Let's not be so trigger-happy to condemn Trump for ideas that are not necessarily sinful. God uses men to carry out His vengeance all the time—Israelite and Gentile alike. What if we just-so-happened to hear the mouth of one His vessels speaking of carrying out justice (lawful vengeance)?

❧ Selective Reporting of Facts

The author causes sensationalism the way he selectively reports facts about Trump: Trump is not just denying the Christians from Syria access into the country (temporarily at that, for reasons only Trump, as president, not we, as laymen, who do not have the same facts at our disposal, can know. How much more God who allowed it and is above us all?). His travel ban also paused the Yazidis, who are angel-worshipers, and any potential terrorists, from entering into the country, for now—the latter whom, officially anyway, we're being told is why there was a pause in immigration in the first place. The author should be thanking God, because only He knows the good that will result out of this (which was overturned anyway. Purpose accomplished?).

What I find mind-boggling is how the protesters on the news labeling this a "Muslim ban" and saying not to allow the travel ban, don't understand the mercy of God in allowing this to happen—the terrorists that may be in those specific Muslim-majority countries (and the lone wolves in the USA as well) are a judgment from God against the perversions in the USA, and YHWH is pausing that judgment for now. But they're pretty much asking God to unleash His wrath, and not be merciful towards them, by protesting against the pause in immigration (the pause in allowing terrorists in). Perhaps this is demonic thought enticing them to ask for their own destruction? like the lying spirit sent to Ahab to entice him into initiating his own destruction? So God gives them what they want (Ahab goes to fight Aram), and the courts overturn Trump's travel ban to allow people from those countries, even those bent on their destruction, in—to their own demise. Albeit a revised travel ban has been presented since then, but there has been a window of opportunity for them to get into the country in the meantime, quote "allowing thousands of foreigners to enter the country" [Court Refuses to Reinstate Travel Ban, Dealing Trump Another Legal Loss]. News on the revised travel ban after the original was overturned: [Trump weighs revised travel ban, Supreme Court test still possible].

If we're being fair, however, Trump is not against letting them into the country, full stop, either. It was a 90-day pause (but again, which was overturned). The article makes it sound like Trump doesn't want to help the refugees at all, and that Trump's reasons for pausing immigration are identical to the reasons condemned in the Scripture he quoted, no compassion in his heart for the suffering obedient disciples of Christ, as if he knows with absolute clarity what is in Trump's heart, fully aware of his strategies and motives, and whether these Christians are obedient (doing the Father's will) or not. He is being very sensationalist and is exaggerating the details to make the situation sound worse than it actually is. BTW, Matthew 25 is not about helping whomever, but lending aid to Jesus' brothers and sisters (it's not everyone that qualifies as his "little one" or "brother or sister", but those who do the Father's will, comparing verses 25:40 to 10:42 and 12:50).

Matthew 25:40 (NIV)

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
Matthew 10:42 (NIV)

42 And if anyone gives even a cup of cold water to one of these little ones who is my disciple, truly I tell you, that person will certainly not lose their reward.”
Matthew 12:50 (NIV)

50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

❧ Let's actually believe in YHWH's Sovereignty, not merely say we believe in His Sovereignty

Ultimately, Trump was raised to power by YHWH for whatever purposes YHWH sees fit—to bless His people or judge His people (and bless or judge the uncircumcised in heart, equally), or do both (judge and bless), we will see.

There's also the possibility that YHWH will send punishment to the USA for Obama's sins (a former king's/leader's sins) that have yet to be punished. The rebellion in the present leader is what gives opportunity for it to be punished (e.g. like Jehoiakim enduring judgment for what was done during Manasseh's reign before his, not just his own):

Daniel 2:21 (NIV)

21 He changes times and seasons;
he deposes kings and raises up others.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.
2 Kings 24:1-4 (NIV)

24 During Jehoiakim’s reign, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon invaded the land, and Jehoiakim became his vassal for three years. But then he turned against Nebuchadnezzar and rebelled. 2 The Lord sent Babylonian,[a] Aramean, Moabite and Ammonite raiders against him to destroy Judah, in accordance with the word of the Lord proclaimed by his servants the prophets. 3 Surely these things happened to Judah according to the Lord’s command, in order to remove them from his presence because of the sins of Manasseh and all he had done, 4 including the shedding of innocent blood. For he had filled Jerusalem with innocent blood, and the Lord was not willing to forgive.

Footnotes:

a. 2 Kings 24:2 Or Chaldean
Psalm 106:40-42 (NIV)

40 Therefore the Lord was angry with his people
and abhorred his inheritance.
41 He gave them into the hands of the nations,
and their foes ruled over them.
42 Their enemies oppressed them
and subjected them to their power.

But also, raising up kings to bless His people:

2 Chronicles 36:22-23 (NIV)

22 In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:

23 “This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:

“‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah. Any of his people among you may go up, and may the Lord their God be with them.’”

People may say they believe in a Sovereign God, but in their talking about the circumstances happening around us, they don't act like it, but instead place so much focus on the human head He placed in power over a country forgetting the involvement of YHWH's hand in the situation, in their assessment of the situation.

That and they talk about Christians like all of them will be shown mercy just for associating with Him and His church, when that's not the case either. Whether suffering for their disobedience or suffering despite their righteousness, we have descriptions of both prophesied to happen:

1 Peter 2:20-23 (NIV)

20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.

22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”[a]

23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly.

Footnotes:

a. 1 Peter 2:22 Isaiah 53:9
Matthew 10:16-22 (NIV)

16 “I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
1 Peter 4:17 (NIV)

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

Suffering as punishment for our sins and we being judged on earth for it. Or suffering for doing right, and not retaliating. It is prophesied that we will suffer, and not necessarily because the leader of a country is “anti-Christ” and “refusing” to help, but because YHWH Himself wants it to happen even if the leader wants to send aid (Trump said as much that he wanted to help [Trump pledges to prioritize Christians as he freezes US refugee program]. Not saying that this is, beyond a shadow of doubt, what's happening, but we can't deny the very real possibility that Trump wants to help, but YHWH is presenting information/circumstances to Trump that is making Trump stop/delay the help.

So, we can't use the refugee situation to allege “anti-Christ” in and of itself. He hasn't said anything to deny Christ coming in the flesh. So these antichrist allegations are uncalled for.

And if Trump seeks to bless the believers, but YHWH doesn't want to help the rebellious Church, then there will be impediments to Trump helping them. But by the same token, if Trump doesn't want to bless them, but YHWH does, then contrary to Trump's plans, there will be aid and blessing for them (or a number of them that YHWH does want to help anyway, while He doesn't help the others), or simply move Trump's heart to comply as He did with Cyrus.

Proverbs 21:1 (NIV)

21 In the Lord’s hand the king’s heart is a stream of water
that he channels toward all who please him.
Proverbs 19:21 (NIV)

21 Many are the plans in a person’s heart,
but it is the Lord’s purpose that prevails.

❧ 666

As for the 666 passage in Revelation, why does this author try to use the number and yet explain none of the detail of what the passage containing the number describes? How does this 666 connection to Trump's son-in-law (so it's not even Trump, but to his son-in-law) enable man (great and small, rich and poor, free and slave) to buy and sell if they take it—or prevent them from buying and selling, if they refuse to take it?

Revelation 13:15-18 (NIV)

15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name.

18 This calls for wisdom. Let the person who has insight calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man.[a] That number is 666.

Footnotes:

a. Revelation 13:18 Or is humanity’s number

And what about this mark of the beast says 666 has to be associated with a lunar eclipse / blood moon? There's so much unstable interpretation going on in the Church emotion_sweatdrop As you said: it's not every antichrist who is associated with the number 666. We can't go on applying that number all willy-nilly to whomever we want.

All the more when 666 is a number that appears elsewhere in Scripture in benign circumstances as well (the number of Adonikam's descendants that returned from the Babylonian exile i.e. Ezra 2:13, exactly 666 people—no evil there). Is he going to allege that this family was anti-Christ too...? How unstable would that be.

Furthermore, a verse he twisted in relation to this: about testing the spirits, he made it sound like the verse was solely about testing leaders...

Quote:

The word "antichrist" is never used in Revelation. It comes from John's first letter, when John exhorts Christians to beware of false prophets and test the spirit of new leaders — to watch and listen to see if their spirit is from God or "the spirit of antichrist ... which speaks from the view point of the world and is listened to by the world."

... but it's not solely about leaders—the warning is lifted against anyone who receives a prophetic revelation from a spirit:

1 John 4:1 (NIV)

4 Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Who receives interaction (and revelation) from spirits? and are subject to their persuasions? Everyone. Even little kids—thus, those who are not leaders in the community as well.

Mark 9:20-22 (NIV)

20 So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming at the mouth.

21 Jesus asked the boy’s father, “How long has he been like this?”

“From childhood,” he answered. 22 “It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can do anything, take pity on us and help us.”

And not just unclean spirits speaking lies and seeking our harm, but the Holy Spirit speaks as well. Who does Jesus reveal truth to? Everyone, regardless of age, class, or position in the body:

Mark 9:36-37 (NIV)

36 He took a little child whom he placed among them. Taking the child in his arms, he said to them, 37 “Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me.”
Matthew 21:15-16 (NIV)

15 But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.

16 “Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.

“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,

“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise’[a]?”

Footnotes:

a. Matthew 21:16 Psalm 8:2 (see Septuagint)

So, whether unclean thoughts / lies (thus sin and error), or clean thoughts / truth (thus righteousness and sound doctrine), we test the idea against the light of the Word of God, no matter from whose heart and whose mouth it comes from—from a leader in the body or from a person with no prestige in society.

In summary:

Unless he can explain the significance of 666 in Trump's (or Trump's relative's) life as it relates specifically to the verses in Revelation 13:15-18, he's wasting his time writing about 666 and just filling the minds of the church with error concerning the use of these verses and what they relate to, even the role of the government. Government is there to mete out an eye for an eye when punishing (seeking justice), to make sure it is just, thus fair, punishment. They are there to protect us from harm as God's servants, and eliminate the harm. And anyone, not just a leader, can be an antichrist, subject to the persuasions of an unclean spirit speaking lies; so test the ideas from wherever they come from—whether the idea comes from your own heart/inner-being, or someone else's (a leader in the community or even a little kid).

The author of this article doesn't realize it, but he's anti-Word-of-God (anti-Christ) too in his own ways, if that's how we're going to be identifying who is “antichrist”, for the same reason Trump is: ignorance of Scripture / deviance from Scripture. Though clearly, neither Trump nor the author of this article deny that Jesus came in the flesh and that Jesus is the Christ.

Do I approve of Trump's greed/idolatry? No. His crass remarks? No. However, not everything he has said or done is conflicting with God's image, nor is anti-Christ / anti-YHWH, contrary to how people report on Trump. We have to be fair, and try really hard to understand what the words coming out of his mouth mean, not simply run with however people paraphrase what he says.

I really dislike this article. I don't understand how his pointing out of Trump's character flaws is helping the body, he didn't even ask fellow believers to pray about Trump's flaws, just made inappropriate applications of 666 to Trump that have nothing to do with our buying or selling, nor making everyone—great and small, rich and poor, free and slave—to take on his mark (the actual use of the mark of the beast prophesied in the book of Revelation).