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What if Jesus meant every word He said? 

Tags: God, Jesus, The Holy Spirit, The Bible, Truth, Love, Eternal Life, Salvation, Faith, Holy, Fellowship, Apologetics 

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“Once more unto the breach”

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Lady Vizsla

PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:03 am
by Gary Bates

“Once more into the breach” comes from Shakespeare’s The Life of King Henry the Fifth.

In this play he intimated that in peacetime “stillness and humility” should reign. But at a time of war there are some things ‘tigerishly’ worth fighting for.

Time began when “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth” (Genesis 1:1). Very shortly after in Genesis 3 we see the Fall of Man—when Adam and Eve were deceived by Satan’s question: “Did God really say?”—words that echo to this day. This began the most catastrophic war in all history that still rages today. But do most of us recognize the enemy’s tactics?

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The battle is for the authority of the Creator’s Word. For centuries in the Christianized West, the Bible stood as the benchmark to ‘judge all things’. The Ten Commandments stood proudly in courthouses, and school lessons included the Bible. Christianity was the major influence upon societal conventions, and Christians could freely express what they believed without persecution.

However, in our halls of learning, the church was subtly being undermined. Universities are now cathedrals of atheism, because the worldview of evolution erodes the foundation of God’s Word and its account of origins. Not recognizing the attack, even professing Christians compromised and faltered—also convinced by ‘the lie’. Attempts to win over unbelievers became increasingly ineffective as they became convinced that ‘science’ showed the Bible was not actually inspired by the Creator. But feeling secure within the walls of the church, many Christians did not feel the need to engage in the intellectual battles going on ‘outside’. Failure to recognize this erosion of the Christian foundation has ultimately resulted in direct attacks upon the church.

The issues of same-sex marriage, gender confusion and increasing moral decline result from God’s Word being removed as the authoritative foundation of all morality. If the Bible is ‘demonstrably not true’ when it comes to origins as most people now think, why should people respect its moral commands? Indeed, why should Christians and the church be exempt from adhering to worldly laws, even when they are in direct conflict with the Scriptures? The desire for Christians to be exempt from legislation that impinges upon our faith will be compared to Muslims wanting to live under Sharia law, for example. There will be no exemptions unless we fight for what we believe.

Any solid structure stands on good foundations. Without realizing that the attacks on Genesis—the Bible’s origins—are actually an attack on our faith and Jesus Himself, we’ve seen our youth depart the church in increasing numbers. Because the foundation has been undermined, the building is in serious trouble—we must restore the foundation by proclaiming the authority of God’s Word.

Biblical creation makes sense of the world we live in! It explains why the world is subject to decay and sin and why there is death and suffering in the world. The Bible provides hope!

Creation teaching, with God’s enabling, turns minds and hearts towards Him. The information provided by CMI rebuilds the foundation. We need staunch Christians who recognize this vital battle, and who will help CMI to ‘stand in the breach’. When the world looks lost and a sense of hopelessness prevails, we need to remember that the battle has already been won by our Creator. Our salvation is already secure and our responsibility to God is to share Gospel truth to see others saved. Jude wrote: “Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 1:3, emphasis added).

We should continue to fight this battle with every breath the Lord gives us. Obviously, some of us are more fit for certain types of ‘battles’ than others, but we can all play our part. CMI has been doing so for over 35 years, and lives are being changed. First, in the church, as Christians are equipped and emboldened, and then for unbelievers when motivated Christians get equipped and share the information. And amazingly, as I was writing this to you, I received the following from Kyle S.:

Quote:
“Years ago I responded to an article and me of course being the expert that I am (sarcasm intended) decided I would write in to tell the author [Gary Bates] that long ages are fine with a biblical world view… After a few emails that back and forth, which I am extremely grateful that you took the time to write … Your responses and willingness to take the time to respond to me served as the first domino that got tipped over. I am now an avid YEC and will debate (with kindness and respect) with atheists I encounter, with confidence due to the training your website has given me. I thank you for opening this door in me. I pray that the Lord favors you and your company in every way possible. Thank you for the gift you give us all by the work that you do.”


So, for Kyle a foundation was restored and he now contends for the faith. Will you please also stand with us in the breach to help restore the authority of God’s Word?  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:43 am
Young Earth vs Old Earth Creationism should not be a litmus test for orthodoxy.

"Believing Genesis" means that there will be some debate as to what it means.... we must accept that Christians differ in their beliefs about the age of the Earth while still being faithful Christians that are both attempting to be Biblical in their approach, IMHO.  

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:49 am
P.S. Believing in Grace vs Works Righteousness is a more important and critical issue.  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:16 pm
SolaceSerenitySerendipity
P.S. Believing in Grace vs Works Righteousness is a more important and critical issue.


"vs" doesn't belong in that sentence, rather: Grace Works Righteousness.

      • Titus 2:11-12 (NIV)

        11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age,

      • Titus 3:5-6 (NIV)

        5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,

      • 2 Timothy 1:6-7 (NIV)

        6 For this reason I remind you to fan into flame the gift of God, which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 7 For the Spirit God gave us does not make us timid, but gives us power, love and self-discipline.

      • Romans 6:6 (NIV)

        6 For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[a] that we should no longer be slaves to sin—

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 6:6 Or be rendered powerless

      • 1 John 3:4 (NIV)

        4 Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness.

      • Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)

        7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

        9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

      • Ezekiel 36:27 (NIV)

        27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

      • Romans 7:25 (NIV)

        25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

        So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[a] a slave to the law of sin.

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 7:25 Or in the flesh

      • 1 John 3:7 (NIV)

        7 Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.


...because the Holy Spirit, who desires to walk in His righteousness, is in us. The Holy Spirit is a grace/favour given to us who moves us to walk in (thus do/work) righteousness. If we heed His voice, then we do not walk in the sinful desires of the flesh, but walk in the Spirit's desire to do what is upright. Ergo, He saved us so that we could work righteousness (sincerely, from the inside out, not circumventing the essence of the Command [for example, staying faithful to your spouse is not limited to physical penetration of someone who isn't your spouse, but not even having a passionate longing to have sexual relations with someone else, not cheating on your spouse on any level of your being, bodily or inner-being]). It's because of His grace that we can work righteousness sincerely since we're no longer slaves to sin, or the flesh's orders to sin, thanks to believing in Jesus/what He said and came to do, and the Holy Spirit / Spirit of God / Spirit of Christ coming to dwell inside of us, regenerating our inner-being to love righteousness (like He does) more than our corrupted flesh's desire to sin.

But He won't force us to walk in His Way; we must submit our minds to the voice of the Spirit of Christ, instead of the voice of the flesh.

      • Philippians 2:13 (NIV)

        13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

      • Galatians 5:16 (NIV)

        16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

      • Romans 8:13 (NIV)

        13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.

      • Colossians 3:5-10 (NIV)

        5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

        Footnotes:

        a. Colossians 3:6 Some early manuscripts coming on those who are disobedient

      • Ephesians 4:30 (NIV)

        30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

      • Isaiah 63:10 (NIV)

        10 Yet they rebelled
            and grieved his Holy Spirit.
        So he turned and became their enemy
            and he himself fought against them.

      • Revelation 2:23 (NIV)

        23 I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds.

      • Revelation 19:7-8 (NIV)

        7 Let us rejoice and be glad
        and give him glory!
        For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
        and his bride has made herself ready.
        8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
        was given her to wear.”

        (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

      • 1 Corinthians 9:25-27 (NIV)

        25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air. 27 No, I strike a blow to my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

      • Revelation 21:7-8 (NIV)

        7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

      • Hebrews 10:29 (NIV)

        29 How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?


Ergo, through the power of the Holy Spirit (who is God's grace, the Spirit of Grace), put off your earthly nature that works wickedness and put on Christ's nature that works righteousness. Our consent/will is still an element, even though He is supplying everything by His acts of grace/favour (the knowledge, the means, the faith, the power, the desire). Despite being given the grace/favour to believe/have faith, what we do with that gift matters. Ergo,

      • Romans 12:3 (NIV)

        3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you.

      • Colossians 1:22-23 (NIV)

        22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation— 23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

      • Hebrews 3:12-13 (NIV)

        12 See to it, brothers and sisters, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13 But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.


The concept of God's grace / acts of favour towards us does not deny that believers are expected to do something to be declared righteous (e.g. walk according to the Spirit and continue believing). God giving us something (a favour/grace) doesn't necessarily mean we heed it or use it, but we're suppose to in order to be saved/stay saved [e.g. He softens your heart, don't let sin and unbelief harden it again; therefore encourage each other daily to prevent that]).

Contrary to a daily devotional posted a few days back, people have been known to lose inheritance, even if they were once a son (that truth/”how reality works” does not become an untruth/”not how reality works” all of sudden); otherwise why warn the New Covenant believers through letters to avoid this very thing? that sinful carnal appetites and our affections for the things of this world can disqualify us from our inheritance?

      • Hebrews 12:16-17 (NIV)

        16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.


We're warned not to follow Esau's example. Even if Esau believed in the existence of a God, he clearly did not put on God's nature, whose nature Christ is enabling us to put on, and we must put on what He gave us to put on (His nature), and get rid of what He told us to rid of:

      • Hebrews 12:14 (NIV)

        14 Make every effort to live in peace with everyone and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.

      • 2 Corinthians 6:16-18 (NIV)

        16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said:

          “I will live with them
            and walk among them,
          and I will be their God,
            and they will be my people.”[a]

        17 Therefore,

          “Come out from them
            and be separate,
                says the Lord.
          Touch no unclean thing,
            and I will receive you.”[b]

        18 And,

          “I will be a Father to you,
            and you will be my sons and daughters,
                says the Lord Almighty.”[c]

        Footnotes:

        a. 2 Corinthians 6:16 Lev. 26:12; Jer. 32:38; Ezek. 37:27
        b. 2 Corinthians 6:17 Isaiah 52:11; Ezek. 20:34,41
        c. 2 Corinthians 6:18 2 Samuel 7:14; 7:8


Holy/set apart from the world's ways (which includes their unclean, lying/false philosophies thus false philosophers [false “lovers of wisdom”], their false prophets/false teachers), anything that transgresses the Law of YHWH (cowardice, murdering [lawless killing], sexual immorality, magic arts / witchcraft / the occult / the so-called deep secrets of Satan / demonic / idolatrous / false practices, myth, idolatry, uncleanness, etc), their attitudes and ways that Christ delivers us from if we're truly following Him and what He taught; even if our execution isn't 100%, at least our heart is wholeheartedly set against them (thus mind saved to obey the Law of God, though the sinful nature of the flesh still wanting to sin, but now you disagree with the flesh).

      • Romans 7:12 (NIV)

        12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

      • Romans 7:21-25 (NIV)

        21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

        So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[a] a slave to the law of sin.

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 7:25 Or in the flesh

      • Romans 8:13 (NIV)

        13 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live.


Though I am aware that Esau was rejected (not shown favour, thus hated) by God since before he came out of the womb:

      • Romans 9:10-16 (NIV)

        10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[a] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[b]

        14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,

        “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
            and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[c]

        16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 9:12 Gen. 25:23
        b. Romans 9:13 Mal. 1:2,3
        c. Romans 9:15 Exodus 33:19


Despite this, however, Esau is still blamed for why he lost his inheritance, blamed for falling short of God's grace, all based on what he did:

      • Hebrews 12:15-17 (NIV)

        15 See to it that no one falls short of the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. 16 See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done.


Why are warned to see to it and not to be like Esau if it can't happen to us? if what we do does not affect our inheritance? This letter is being written to believers in Christ.

How the concepts, or what is being communicated, comes together in my mind: YHWH who, seeing the end from the beginning, foresaw who would faithfully endure to the end, saw how they would choose when presented with certain information and/or privileges, saw whom or what they would seek to please/serve, in light of that, and knows how they would choose/whom they would serve to please since the beginning, before they're even born, merely says who will inherit, receive favour from Him, and who will not before it happens, because He saw what they would do before they did it [or before they were even born] and whom He would give His favour to because of it. But we, who are living in time, are still making or have yet to make those choices to accept or reject truth, accept or reject His acts of favour/grace towards us. Esau was allowed to be born in a position of privilege, but rejected God's grace for a plate of food (carnal appetite/worldly things); God saw the kind of person he was (and if he's like that with small matters, he'd be like that with God's promises too), and God saw the kind of person Jacob was (upon hearing a promise from God, he believes it and does everything in his power to make it true, not allow it to be taken from him).

I'm reminded of:

      • Revelation 3:11 (NIV)

        11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown.


Our crown, that also lasts forever (e.g. 1 Cor 9:25), can be taken?

      • 1 Corinthians 9:25 (NIV)

        25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last, but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.


At the same time that Scripture is saying this about God's Sovereign choice:

      • Romans 9:16 (NIV)

        16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.


Scripture is also saying:

      • Luke 13:24 (NIV)

        24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.


Those who are chosen (like John, Peter, Matthew, Paul, etc) still have to make an effort. Jesus is commanding them to.

This is why Peter said Paul's epistles were hard to understand.

      • 2 Peter 3:15-17 (NIV)

        15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

        17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position.


Whether “hard to understand” is due to:

[1] the limits of human language, needing to apply the same terminology but to communicate something else (e.g. hatred of God, hatred of righteous people, and hatred of righteous things is evil, but hatred of sin and hatred of sinners is right, like the righteous hating on the dishonest people [Proverbs 29:27]; or pride against God, not submitting to His Way is sinful [Nehemiah 9:29; Leviticus 26:18-19], but taking pride in righteous people, taking pride in your disciples bearing righteous fruit, is not sinful [2 Corinthians 8:24]).

      • Proverbs 29:27 (NIV)

        27 The righteous detest the dishonest;
              the wicked detest the upright.

      • Nehemiah 9:29 (NIV)

        29 “You warned them in order to turn them back to your law, but they became arrogant and disobeyed your commands. They sinned against your ordinances, of which you said, ‘The person who obeys them will live by them.’ Stubbornly they turned their backs on you, became stiff-necked and refused to listen.

      • Leviticus 26:18-19 (NIV)

        18 “‘If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. 19 I will break down your stubborn pride and make the sky above you like iron and the ground beneath you like bronze.

      • 2 Corinthians 8:24 (NIV)

        24 Therefore show these men the proof of your love and the reason for our pride in you, so that the churches can see it.


But then the word (either “hatred” or “pride”) gets used by itself (whether in a negative or positive connotation without specifying what kind, and people may make false generalizations/doctrines based on the vague verse even though there are good examples attached to the word).

e.g.

      • Psalm 139:21-22 (NIV)

        21 Do I not hate those who hate you, Lord,
        and abhor those who are in rebellion against you?


      • Proverbs 10:12 (NIV)

        12 Hatred stirs up conflict,
              but love covers over all wrongs.


      • Proverbs 17:6 (NIV)

        6 Children’s children are a crown to the aged,
            and parents are the pride of their children.


      • Proverbs 16:18 (NIV)

        18 Pride goes before destruction,
        a haughty spirit before a fall.


      • Psalm 119:21 (KJV)

        21 Thou hast rebuked the proud that are cursed,
              which do err from thy commandments.


Some people who only cross paths with one kind may think hating on people, under any circumstances, is wrong, or being prideful of something under any circumstance is wrong, even though sometimes it's good and considered righteous (hating on dishonest people, and people who hate / rebel against God; taking pride in people who do not commit wrong, but do right).

Same with the word “law”: Paul specifies at least two laws in his epistles (a law implies commands, regulations, a way of doing things, orders):

      • Romans 7:25 (NIV)

        25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[a] a slave to the law of sin.

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 7:25 Or in the flesh


One is the Law of God, the other is the law of sin in your flesh (your flesh ordering you to sin). Yet when he mentions only “law” by itself, people assume it's always talking about God's Law every time e.g.

      • Ephesians 2:14-16 (NIV)

        14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.


Yet which law? Which law is the one that makes humanity hostile against each other and against God? Not the Law of YHWH, but the law of sin in the flesh (the flesh's orders to sin) as you saw in Romans 8, that makes us hostile towards God and each other:

      • Romans 8:7-9 (NIV)

        7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

        9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.

      • Leviticus 26:21 (NIV)

        21 “‘If you remain hostile toward me and refuse to listen to me, I will multiply your afflictions seven times over, as your sins deserve.


Thus why He had to break down the dividing wall of hostility (in the law of the flesh) that keeps both those who are far (Gentiles) and those who are near (Israelites) away from God and from walking in His Way.

Same with the word “works”. Is it always referring to works of YHWH's Law? No, sometimes it refers to self-imposed traditions, useless rituals not commanded by God, and sometimes to things that are good but not necessarily commanded in the Law at all.

      • Hebrews 11:8 (NIV)

        8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

      • James 2:21-25 (NIV)

        21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[a] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

        25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?

        Footnotes:

        a. James 2:23 Gen. 15:6


Is, “always offer lodging to an Israelite spy who is hiding from their enemies”, written in the Law of God? No.
Is, “leave your homeland to go to a foreign land, without knowing where you're going; I'll make you inherit it” written in the Law of God? No.

But those were good works that declared them righteous, and demonstrated their trust/faith in God.

Negatively:

      • Hebrews 6:1 (KJV)

        6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

      • Hebrews 6:1 (NIV)

        6 Therefore let us move beyond the elementary teachings about Christ and be taken forward to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God,

        Footnotes:

        a. Hebrews 6:1 Or from useless rituals

      • Isaiah 64:5-6 (NIV)

        5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,
            who remember your ways.
        But when we continued to sin against them,
            you were angry.
            How then can we be saved?
        6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
            and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
        we all shrivel up like a leaf,
            and like the wind our sins sweep us away.


They had rejected YHWH's ways so their “righteous acts” (works) were like filthy rags. They weren't based on YHWH's definition of righteousness, ergo they are dead works, self-imposed, useless rituals. Thus why when we get to the New Testament:

      • Matthew 15:1-9 (NIV)

        15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”

        3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’[a] and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’[b] 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

        8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
            but their hearts are far from me.
        9 They worship me in vain;
            their teachings are merely human rules.’[c]”

        Footnotes:

        a. Matthew 15:4 Exodus 20:12; Deut. 5:16
        b. Matthew 15:4 Exodus 21:17; Lev. 20:9
        c. Matthew 15:9 Isaiah 29:13

      • Colossians 2:22-23 (NIV)

        22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.


They're not anything YHWH commanded, it's merely self-imposed, and even nullifies a Command that YHWH did tell them to do; they're dead works. These works are wrong. So, context matters. As you saw, Rahab was justified by works, because she acted in faith/trust in what God was telling her to do. But the Pharisees were doing certain religious rituals God never asked them to do, but contradicted what He did tell them to do and they reject what is actually written. They did not trust God nor the Word of God. That did not justify them; they were doing dead works that justify no one.

[2] or ignorance on the part of the reader, just not understanding Paul, not aware of what Paul is referring to, Paul speaking in response to something specific in his mind, but writing too vaguely for someone who is not fully aware of the particular argument at hand (nor aware of to whom he was responding to) to pick up on e.g. the Pharisees who rejected Jesus but are still trying to be justified by law keeping. vs. Paul living in obedience to the Law as a saved believer in Christ (justified by belief in / accepting Jesus as Messiah and YHWH incarnate).

      • Acts 15:5 (NIV)

        5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”

      • Acts 15:1 (NIV)

        15 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”

      • Galatians 5:2-4 (NIV)

        2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.


But not that Paul was against all circumcising full stop nor against living in obedience to the Law, because he himself would do both:

      • Acts 16:1-3 (NIV)

        16 Paul came to Derbe and then to Lystra, where a disciple named Timothy lived, whose mother was Jewish and a believer but whose father was a Greek. 2 The believers at Lystra and Iconium spoke well of him. 3 Paul wanted to take him along on the journey, so he circumcised him because of the Jews who lived in that area, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.

      • Acts 21:20-26 (NIV)

        20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law. 21 They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs. 22 What shall we do? They will certainly hear that you have come, 23 so do what we tell you. There are four men with us who have made a vow. 24 Take these men, join in their purification rites and pay their expenses, so that they can have their heads shaved. Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedience to the law. 25 As for the Gentile believers, we have written to them our decision that they should abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality.”

        26 The next day Paul took the men and purified himself along with them. Then he went to the temple to give notice of the date when the days of purification would end and the offering would be made for each of them.


He still lived in obedience to the Law, not to be justified by it, but because the Law is good and he's no longer hostile to obeying it in Spirit and in Truth (not to mention it all prophesies about Jesus).

      • 1 Timothy 1:8 (NIV)

        8 We know that the law is good if one uses it properly.

      • Colossians 2:17 (KJV)

        17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

      • Romans 7:12 (NIV)

        12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

      • Luke 24:44-45 (NIV)

        44 He said to them, “This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

        45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures.


Scripture doesn't contradict. You just have to know what the specific sentence/topic it is that the writer had in mind in order to follow his line of reasoning, or at the very least, be aware of everything else he said (and that the rest of the disciples wrote, even describing what Paul said and did) to know it's not correct to come away with a doctrine that says that, “all circumcision needs to stop”, “living in obedience to the Law of YHWH needs to stop”.

Likewise, we can't come away with a doctrine that says, “what we do plays no part whatsoever in whether or not we make it into the kingdom and inherit eternal life”.

Is Paul rejecting the idea that what we do plays a part in whether we inherit the kingdom and inherit eternal life?

      • Romans 2:7 (NIV)

        7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

      • Galatians 6:7-8 (NIV)

        7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

      • Ephesians 5:5-7 (NIV)

        5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7 Therefore do not be partners with them.

        Footnotes:

        a. Ephesians 5:5 Or kingdom of the Messiah and God

      • Romans 2:5 (NIV)

        5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed.

      • Galatians 5:19-25 (NIV)

        19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

        22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.


In agreement with the rest of the Word of God (note: a command is something you do):

      • John 12:49-50 (NIV)

        49 For I did not speak on my own, but the Father who sent me commanded me to say all that I have spoken. 50 I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

      • Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV)

        21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

      • Matthew 25:33-40 (NIV)

        33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

        34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

        37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

        40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

      • Matthew 12:50 (NIV)

        50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

      • Psalm 40:8 (NIV)

        8 I desire to do your will, my God;
            your law is within my heart.”

      • Hebrews 10:16 (NIV)

        16 “This is the covenant I will make with them
            after that time, says the Lord.
        I will put my laws in their hearts,
            and I will write them on their minds.”[a]

        Footnotes:

        a. Hebrews 10:16 Jer. 31:33


Yeah, He's the one who provides the atonement sacrifice, He puts His Law on our hearts, He puts His Spirit in us to move us to desire to walk in it, but we have to submit our minds to, and thus heed, the voice of His Spirit once He's in us to walk in righteousness now that our inner-beings are saved. He provides the forgiveness, the faith, the revelation (His Word), and the Spirit, but we have to walk in Him. And sure we may avoid the lake of fire on the great white throne judgment day, but that doesn't mean we'll stay in the kingdom (you have to be in it to get thrown out).

      • Luke 13:27-29 (NIV)

        27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’ 28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God.

      • Matthew 24:45-51 (NIV)

        45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

      • Matthew 22:1-13 (NIV)

        22 Jesus spoke to them again in parables, saying: 2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a king who prepared a wedding banquet for his son. 3 He sent his servants to those who had been invited to the banquet to tell them to come, but they refused to come.

        4 “Then he sent some more servants and said, ‘Tell those who have been invited that I have prepared my dinner: My oxen and fattened cattle have been butchered, and everything is ready. Come to the wedding banquet.’

        5 “But they paid no attention and went off—one to his field, another to his business. 6 The rest seized his servants, mistreated them and killed them. 7 The king was enraged. He sent his army and destroyed those murderers and burned their city.

        8 “Then he said to his servants, ‘The wedding banquet is ready, but those I invited did not deserve to come. 9 So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’ 10 So the servants went out into the streets and gathered all the people they could find, the bad as well as the good, and the wedding hall was filled with guests.

        11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.

        13 “Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

      • Matthew 8:11-12 (NIV)

        11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”


Interesting to note:

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http://biblehub.com/text/matthew/8-12.htm


These weren't people who didn't believe YHWH existed, they knew, they knew whom they served, they knew whom their Father was, but weren't faithful/loyal sons to Him, sincerely, as He told them to be and do. They're off caring more about the ways of this world, partying, getting drunk (thus over consumption, gluttonous eating and drinking), practicing falsehood, thus not the truth of what God says, and hating on all those who do speak His true message.

The equivalent concept to eternal life (and our doing affecting it) that I can think of throughout the Old Testament is:

      • 1 Kings 3:14 (NIV)

        14 And if you walk in obedience to me and keep my decrees and commands as David your father did, I will give you a long life.”

      • Exodus 20:12 (NIV)

        12 “Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

      • Deuteronomy 6:2 (NIV)

        2 so that you, your children and their children after them may fear the Lord your God as long as you live by keeping all his decrees and commands that I give you, and so that you may enjoy long life.


Perhaps equivalent to:

      • Mark 10:17-22 (NIV)

        17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

        18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’[a]”

        20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”

        21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

        22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.

        Footnotes:

        a. Mark 10:19 Exodus 20:12-16; Deut. 5:16-20


Regardless of whether “long life” (on earth) is all “eternal life” means or the Old Testament verses are just a picture of how we will live with God, our Father (whom we honor through obedience), forever on a new earth and new heavens, or whether the Old Testament doesn't talk about eternal life at all (arguably, it could just seem that way because it is written in Hebrew, and the New Testament is written in Greek, and thus perhaps why it was not translated the exact, same way, [long life vs. eternal life]; Jesus seems to be alluding to those verses translated as “long life” in the New Testament Greek where it was translated “eternal life” by saying you inherit/get it by keeping the Commands), whatever the case, God's grace (even of giving us instructions in the first place for how to do well on a corrupt earth—which was a favour) doesn't negate that we have to walk in His Wisdom / His Way for things to go well with us.

      • John 1:16-17 (NIV)

        16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.


And the other point of Paul's epistles is that—just like it has always been—there's no such thing as atheistically walking in YHWH's Commands, denying the One who gave it, and you being justified. We have to trust in YHWH. And trust/faith is what has always declared someone righteous/justified: trusting in what He said and in Him who said it, both. I still get the impression from many Jews that it's all about honoring the Jewish people, the Rabbi's and the temple, not an actual trust in God (the divine person). Ergo, why this needed saying:

      • John 5:24 (NIV)

        24 “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.


They weren't really trusting in God, but the religious system they had built around His Commands. Nothing like the living faith Abraham (and the other patriarchs) had:

      • Romans 1:17 (NIV)

        17 For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed—a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[a] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[b]

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 1:17 Or is from faith to faith
        b. Romans 1:17 Hab. 2:4

      • Romans 4:3 (NIV)

        3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]

        Footnotes:

        Romans 4:3 Gen. 15:6; also in verse 22

      • Hebrews 11:4 (NIV)

        4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did. By faith he was commended as righteous, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith Abel still speaks, even though he is dead.


I go through this to demonstrate that more important than "orthodox" theological stances, and traditional ways of phrasing or paraphrasing Scripture, let's strive to be cohesively Biblical. What is the concept that all the verses together are describing? YHWH, through His incarnation, came to save us from the guilt of our sins, dying for us as a sin offering, to save us from eternal wrath / the place that sin has destined us to (Gehenna/lake of fire), and save us from the earthly nature we're born with, so that we can be forgiven, be renewed / become a new creature, walk in righteousness sincerely (thus work righteousness sincerely, the righteous acts of God's people), and live with Him forever instead of live with Satan forever in the lake of fire; all Satan does is mislead us, nurture doubt in our Father's Instructions, so that we could be damned to the lake of fire just like he is:

      • Matthew 25:41-46 (NIV)

        41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

      • Revelation 20:10 (NIV)

        10 And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

      • 2 Thessalonians 2:7-12 (NIV)

        7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

      • Romans 2:6-8 (NIV)

        6 God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[a] 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.

        Footnotes:

        a. Romans 2:6 Psalm 62:12; Prov. 24:12


---

As an aside, an old earth age does undermine what is written. Christ came to deliver us from the death that entered through Adam's sin; but if death had entered creation before Adam sinned and thus death was around before man was ever around since the beginning to have sinned and invited death in (they date the earth to be about 4.54 billion years old), but that man came billions of years later/after the beginning, the time when they say early man finally arose (1.2 million years ago), then you can't trust Genesis (or even the New Testament or Jesus) at all as documenting the truth. Denying Christ's words / the Word of God isn't being a faithful Christian.

      • Genesis 2:17 (NIV)

        17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

      • Genesis 3:17 (NIV)

        17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

        Cursed is the ground because of you;
            through painful toil you will eat food from it
            all the days of your life.

      • Romans 5:12 (NIV)

        12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

      • Matthew 19:4-5 (NIV)

        4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]?

        Footnotes:

        a. Matthew 19:4 Gen. 1:27
        b. Matthew 19:5 Gen. 2:24


Man arising billions of years later is not the beginning. Faithful Christians need to accept what Christ says.
 

cristobela
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:45 am
1 Corinthians states :

"It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption."

also Romans 4:

"1 What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”a

4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the one to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:

7“Blessed are those

whose transgressions are forgiven,

whose sins are covered.

8Blessed is the one

whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

and...

Ephesians 2:8-9:
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

====

works will never make us righteous or save us.... they are our service to God out of love and obedience, nothing more.... we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ....remember, scripture says our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Also see this excellent resource: CARM on Justification

"In Romans it says,

"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight . . . " (Rom. 3:20)
"for we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law." (Rom. 3:2 cool
"For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.'" (Rom. 4:3)
"Therefore, having been justified by faith . . . " (Rom. 5:1)
"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness." (Rom. 4:5).
(continued at CARM site)

====

May the Lord bless you. Thanks for your response. Next time, please include a link or reference to what you are quoting.... sources matter in such a critical issue. Thanks again.  
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