1 Then said he unto the disciples, It is impossible but that offences will come: but woe unto him, through whom they come!
2 It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
4 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
Let's break this down. Was Jesus looking for reasons to hate people? Was he leading them to greater faith? What is real forgiveness? What is faith?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 7:05 pm
Swordsman of God
Let's break this down. Was Jesus looking for reasons to hate people?
If by this you mean, "just trying to spot wrong in people for the funsies and to start up problems", then, no, He wasn't "looking for reasons to hate people". But He does point out hated behaviors (sin, lawless behavior, wicked ways, what is violating)—for the purpose of solving the problems once and for all / put an end to them because He knows there can be no real relationship if there are unacknowledged issues impeding the trust between two people.
If one of the two (or both) is feeling violated, that needs to be brought up, recognized, and dealt with. Someone has to repent of wrongdoing, thus admit what they did is wrong in order to turn away from it. Both have to agree—be on the same page—that this should not happen again and agree that it was incorrect to do (someone, if not both, has to admit, "my bad") and receive/accept correction; otherwise, there is no forgiveness, no reconciledrelationship.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
You must rebuke (correct) him. And if they agree with God again, to turn away from violating/trespassing ways, then they are forgiven (by you and by God). If they refuse, then they're not forgiven, but you're not at fault for that.
Leviticus 19:17-18 (NIV)
17 “‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.
18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.
Revelation 3:19 (NIV)
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
Correcting the incorrect behavior is loving. You're extending your hand to help save the relationship—with you and with YHWH. They're not just violating themselves, but others (including God).
If we don't resolve our issues, what is violating to one or to the other, there can't be a restored relationship. At the very least, there has to be the intent to refrain from doing so again (even if they fail, and give in to the flesh, the attitude is to stop violating you [and stop violating God]); otherwise, how has the relationship been made right? trust restored? it hasn't.
To illustrate using an example of false forgiveness: David and his son Absalom. (For full context: 2 Samuel 13-18 [those six chapters]). Absalom murdered another son of David (his half-brother, Amnon) for raping his sister Tamar and not taking responsibility for her. (First of all, holding grudges against Amnon for raping/violating daughter's and father's consent instead of seeking legitimate marriage
i.e. permission from her father, Tamar's lawful authority/head/protection while husband-less and a virgin, and paying the bride price [lawful purchase/redeemed; you're now mine, lawfully, everyone knows it, it's official and lawfully binding. Under the power of the law, I am now your protector until death do us part. And no one would have reasons to feel wronged: your father—who raised you and helped you survive all these years and looks out for your best interests—is alerted, plays a part in the decision, and as your wise, discerning head, he's your protection, daughter is protected, and everyone in the household doesn't feel like you got wronged—of course, the man whom is seeking the bride is deciding whom he will marry too. And is showing forethought, I want this to be permanent, and take care of you, not some momentary feel. No one gets wronged when things get pursued lawfully because by definition it is considerate of all parties involved. Amnon didn't care about Tamar and David's feelings in all this, nor those of her immediate brothers—nor God who has to witness this ill-treament of His creations, their body, emotions, and consciences getting assaulted
; second, for—after defiling her by force—not seeking to rectify his lawless pursuit by taking care of her [not becoming her husband, lawful caretaker, not taking responsibility for her, bodily and emotionally; even going so far as to hate her for no reason afterward, just a whim. I no longer want you]). So, sins have been committed, stable relationships ruined, consciences assaulted. But neither justice (though arguably there were no witnesses, so it can't be prosecuted; lawfully, you must show mercy) nor forgiveness were sought. The issues not dealt with. Just ignored. That only allowed things to fester; no saved relationships achieved.
Joab—commander of David's army, also David's nephew—wanted to force a reconciliation between father and son (his uncle and cousin), but it wasn't genuine because, at first, neither of them wanted it. Then it was just one-sided from David. Absalom ended up conspiring to end his father's (David's) life despite David ostensibly forgiving him in his own heart. Their feelings of wrong/violation were never truly resolved and neither was their trust. Ergo, reconciliation not truly achieved (and that is the purpose of forgiveness: to facilitate a saved relationship/reconciliation).
2 Samuel 14:1 (NIV)
14 Joab son of Zeruiah knew that the king’s heart longed for Absalom.
2 Samuel 14:23-24 (NIV)
23 Then Joab went to Geshur and brought Absalom back to Jerusalem. 24 But the king said, “He must go to his own house; he must not see my face.” So Absalom went to his own house and did not see the face of the king.
2 Samuel 14:32-33 (NIV)
32 Absalom said to Joab, “Look, I sent word to you and said, ‘Come here so I can send you to the king to ask, “Why have I come from Geshur? It would be better for me if I were still there!”’ Now then, I want to see the king’s face, and if I am guilty of anything, let him put me to death.”
33 So Joab went to the king and told him this. Then the king summoned Absalom, and he came in and bowed down with his face to the ground before the king. And the king kissed Absalom.
Absalom conspires to kill David in the next chapter (2 Samuel 15).
So it has to be mutual, sincere, all distrust, injustices, addressed, talked about, corrected, or those bitter sentiments will not yield true forgiveness, the evidence being, "I trust you, no more ill-will between us". No grudges.
But in order to achieve understanding and emotions appeased, they have to talk it out and I'm under the impression that no one did.
2 Samuel 13:20-22 (NIV)
20 Her brother Absalom said to her, “Has that Amnon, your brother, been with you? Be quiet for now, my sister; he is your brother. Don’t take this thing to heart.” And Tamar lived in her brother Absalom’s house, a desolate woman.
21 When King David heard all this, he was furious. 22 And Absalom never said a word to Amnon, either good or bad; he hated Amnon because he had disgraced his sister Tamar.
Quote:
Was he leading them to greater faith?
The apostles asked for a greater amount, but He was leading them to optimize whatever little faith they had so that they could walk in true, authentic relationship and unfeigned spirituality (not just pious-looking and sounding, but sincerely putting love/care into practice, actually, sincerely, loving God and neighbor) and having their prayers heard by God.
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
great quality faith / genuine faith / optimize it / use whatever little you have > a large amount of faith, not put into use/into practice
It's not an issue of the "amount" of the faith one has; what He wants is to have a person actually trusting Him with however much faith we've been given. In the little that we know and are confident that God is capable of doing, do we utilize it in our everyday life?
As it relates to unforgiveness and people who trespass against us, are we exercising faith/trust that this person is genuine in what they say? They can change and want to change and deserve to be given a chance to change because the Word of God allows it in that situation?
As it relates to faith in God, that when He says your unwillingness to forgive impedes His relationship with you so you better resolve it, then you believe it and go do something about it (even if the other person doesn't accept and reconciliation isn't achieved, at least you were willing, to correct, talk it out).
Having faith in what God said—i.e. that if your relationships with God (Head) and His believers (His Body; its members) are not right, He won't be fellowshipping with you, He won't be accepting gifts from you as if your relationship is peaceful with Him, nor will He be answering your prayers...you're not actually being a part of His Body.
Matthew 5:23-24 (NIV)
23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
Similarly:
1 Peter 3:7 (NIV)
7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
You, as the husband (the head), consider your body (your wife), and He (the Head) will consider you (His body) by listening to you. How we relate to His Body directly affects our relationship with Him.
And with people in general:
Matthew 6:12-15 (NIV)
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation,[a] but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 6:13 The Greek for temptation can also mean testing. b. Matthew 6:13 Or from evil; some late manuscripts one, / for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
In short, He was teaching them to put their faith into practice. Whatever little bit faith, what you trust God to be capable of doing, that you know to be true, without a doubt, act according to it. You can achieve / affect much change with a little trust / faith in what He said, trusting that what you speak in His authority, and in line with His will, has the power to change the natural circumstances around you.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
He finds a way to make that happen. So correct your brothers (the way that He said, the many times that He said) and if they want to repair the relationship, they're coming up to you 77 times, yes—of course, they're not being an impediment, you are. The relationship can change for the better, obstacles removed, if you're willing to give them a chance.
Quote:
What is real forgiveness?
1. When there are no grudges/ill-feelings left against the wrongdoing you already talked about, addressed, and corrected; you don't continue to bring up that past wrong when you argue because it has been dealt with or corrected / rebuked already (exception being: they act like a hypocrite, something you forgave them for, they won't forgive in another so you bring it up; so, why should I forgive you for this if you won't forgive this in others? i.e. Matthew 18:21-35).
Matthew 18:21-35 (NIV)
21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[a]
23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[b] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[c] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 18:22 Or seventy times seven b. Matthew 18:24 Greek ten thousand talents; a talent was worth about 20 years of a day laborer’s wages. c. Matthew 18:28 Greek a hundred denarii; a denarius was the usual daily wage of a day laborer (see 20:2).
But again, the theme of, "for the sake of correcting", not start more trouble, not out of malice and wanting to hold grudges with a person who sincerely wants to make things right with you.
2. What they did in the past doesn't affect how you decide to treat them in the present (thus no longer ignoring, refusing to speak to), especially since their wrong has already been addressed (rebuked, corrected). And they have their mind set on not doing it again.
John 8:11 (NIV)
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
3. They agree with God. Otherwise, they're not your brother or sister, you're just doing favors for and watching out for your enemies / some stranger in the community; there's no fellowship there, no relationship of closeness, tied at the neck/yoked, walking in the same direction (because one of you disagrees with God /is acting like the world; the world isn't truly forgiven and intimately trusted outside of Christ and His Body).
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (NIV)
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[b]
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 5:11 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a believer, whether man or woman, as part of God’s family; also in 8:11, 13. b. 1 Corinthians 5:13 Deut. 13:5; 17:7; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21,24; 24:7
Matthew 12:50 (NIV)
50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If your brother or sister[a] sins,[b] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 18:15 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35. b. Matthew 18:15 Some manuscripts sins against you c. Matthew 18:16 Deut. 19:15
Quote:
What is faith?
Trusting God for what He says He's capable of doing for you. Trusting His promises. Heeding His warnings when He says to do (or not to do) something because the consequences will happen as He said, and you believe it/are sure that they will happen as He said—despite not seeing the negative (and positive) consequences yet.
Hebrews 11:1 (NIV)
11 Now faith is confidencein what we hope for and assuranceabout what we do not see.
Romans 4:5 (NIV)
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (NIV)
7 For we live by faith, not by sight.
cristobela Vice Captain
Offline
Swordsman of God
Offline
Posted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:05 am
That is awesome. Thank you.
Jesus is God in flesh 1John 4: vrs 7-8 Anyone who says they hate their brother but loves God is a liar. For God is love.
Posted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:45 am
Impressive you broke it down faster then I was hoping - Anyone Else>?
cristobela
Swordsman of God
Let's break this down. Was Jesus looking for reasons to hate people?
If by this you mean, "just trying to spot wrong in people for the funsies and to start up problems", then, no, He wasn't "looking for reasons to hate people". But He does point out hated behaviors (sin, lawless behavior, wicked ways, what is violating)—for the purpose of solving the problems once and for all / put an end to them because He knows there can be no real relationship if there are unacknowledged issues impeding the trust between two people.
If one of the two (or both) is feeling violated, that needs to be brought up, recognized, and dealt with. Someone has to repent of wrongdoing, thus admit what they did is wrong in order to turn away from it. Both have to agree—be on the same page—that this should not happen again and agree that it was incorrect to do (someone, if not both, has to admit, "my bad") and receive/accept correction; otherwise, there is no forgiveness, no reconciledrelationship.
3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.
You must rebuke (correct) him. And if they agree with God again, to turn away from violating/trespassing ways, then they are forgiven (by you and by God). If they refuse, then they're not forgiven, but you're not at fault for that.
Leviticus 19:17-18 (NIV)
17 “‘Do not hate a fellow Israelite in your heart. Rebuke your neighbor frankly so you will not share in their guilt.
18 “‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.
Revelation 3:19 (NIV)
19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent.
Correcting the incorrect behavior is loving. You're extending your hand to help save the relationship—with you and with YHWH. They're not just violating themselves, but others (including God).
If we don't resolve our issues, what is violating to one or to the other, there can't be a restored relationship. At the very least, there has to be the intent to refrain from doing so again (even if they fail, and give in to the flesh, the attitude is to stop violating you [and stop violating God]); otherwise, how has the relationship been made right? trust restored? it hasn't.
To illustrate using an example of false forgiveness: David and his son Absalom. (For full context: 2 Samuel 13-18 [those six chapters]). Absalom murdered another son of David (his half-brother, Amnon) for raping his sister Tamar and not taking responsibility for her. (First of all, holding grudges against Amnon for raping/violating daughter's and father's consent instead of seeking legitimate marriage
i.e. permission from her father, Tamar's lawful authority/head/protection while husband-less and a virgin, and paying the bride price [lawful purchase/redeemed; you're now mine, lawfully, everyone knows it, it's official and lawfully binding. Under the power of the law, I am now your protector until death do us part. And no one would have reasons to feel wronged: your father—who raised you and helped you survive all these years and looks out for your best interests—is alerted, plays a part in the decision, and as your wise, discerning head, he's your protection, daughter is protected, and everyone in the household doesn't feel like you got wronged—of course, the man whom is seeking the bride is deciding whom he will marry too. And is showing forethought, I want this to be permanent, and take care of you, not some momentary feel. No one gets wronged when things get pursued lawfully because by definition it is considerate of all parties involved. Amnon didn't care about Tamar and David's feelings in all this, nor those of her immediate brothers—nor God who has to witness this ill-treament of His creations, their body, emotions, and consciences getting assaulted
; second, for—after defiling her by force—not seeking to rectify his lawless pursuit by taking care of her [not becoming her husband, lawful caretaker, not taking responsibility for her, bodily and emotionally; even going so far as to hate her for no reason afterward, just a whim. I no longer want you]). So, sins have been committed, stable relationships ruined, consciences assaulted. But neither justice (though arguably there were no witnesses, so it can't be prosecuted; lawfully, you must show mercy) nor forgiveness were sought. The issues not dealt with. Just ignored. That only allowed things to fester; no saved relationships achieved.
Joab—commander of David's army, also David's nephew—wanted to force a reconciliation between father and son (his uncle and cousin), but it wasn't genuine because, at first, neither of them wanted it. Then it was just one-sided from David. Absalom ended up conspiring to end his father's (David's) life despite David ostensibly forgiving him in his own heart. Their feelings of wrong/violation were never truly resolved and neither was their trust. Ergo, reconciliation not truly achieved (and that is the purpose of forgiveness: to facilitate a saved relationship/reconciliation).
2 Samuel 14:1 (NIV)
14 Joab son of Zeruiah knew that the king’s heart longed for Absalom.
2 Samuel 14:23-24 (NIV)
23 Then Joab went to Geshur and brought Absalom back to Jerusalem. 24 But the king said, “He must go to his own house; he must not see my face.” So Absalom went to his own house and did not see the face of the king.
2 Samuel 14:32-33 (NIV)
32 Absalom said to Joab, “Look, I sent word to you and said, ‘Come here so I can send you to the king to ask, “Why have I come from Geshur? It would be better for me if I were still there!”’ Now then, I want to see the king’s face, and if I am guilty of anything, let him put me to death.”
33 So Joab went to the king and told him this. Then the king summoned Absalom, and he came in and bowed down with his face to the ground before the king. And the king kissed Absalom.
Absalom conspires to kill David in the next chapter (2 Samuel 15).
So it has to be mutual, sincere, all distrust, injustices, addressed, talked about, corrected, or those bitter sentiments will not yield true forgiveness, the evidence being, "I trust you, no more ill-will between us". No grudges.
But in order to achieve understanding and emotions appeased, they have to talk it out and I'm under the impression that no one did.
2 Samuel 13:20-22 (NIV)
20 Her brother Absalom said to her, “Has that Amnon, your brother, been with you? Be quiet for now, my sister; he is your brother. Don’t take this thing to heart.” And Tamar lived in her brother Absalom’s house, a desolate woman.
21 When King David heard all this, he was furious. 22 And Absalom never said a word to Amnon, either good or bad; he hated Amnon because he had disgraced his sister Tamar.
Quote:
Was he leading them to greater faith?
The apostles asked for a greater amount, but He was leading them to optimize whatever little faith they had so that they could walk in true, authentic relationship and unfeigned spirituality (not just pious-looking and sounding, but sincerely putting love/care into practice, actually, sincerely, loving God and neighbor) and having their prayers heard by God.
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
great quality faith / genuine faith / optimize it / use whatever little you have > a large amount of faith, not put into use/into practice
It's not an issue of the "amount" of the faith one has; what He wants is to have a person actually trusting Him with however much faith we've been given. In the little that we know and are confident that God is capable of doing, do we utilize it in our everyday life?
As it relates to unforgiveness and people who trespass against us, are we exercising faith/trust that this person is genuine in what they say? They can change and want to change and deserve to be given a chance to change because the Word of God allows it in that situation?
As it relates to faith in God, that when He says your unwillingness to forgive impedes His relationship with you so you better resolve it, then you believe it and go do something about it (even if the other person doesn't accept and reconciliation isn't achieved, at least you were willing, to correct, talk it out).
Having faith in what God said—i.e. that if your relationships with God (Head) and His believers (His Body; its members) are not right, He won't be fellowshipping with you, He won't be accepting gifts from you as if your relationship is peaceful with Him, nor will He be answering your prayers...you're not actually being a part of His Body.
Matthew 5:23-24 (NIV)
23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
Similarly:
1 Peter 3:7 (NIV)
7 Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers.
You, as the husband (the head), consider your body (your wife), and He (the Head) will consider you (His body) by listening to you. How we relate to His Body directly affects our relationship with Him.
And with people in general:
Matthew 6:12-15 (NIV)
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation,[a] but deliver us from the evil one.[b]’
14 For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 6:13 The Greek for temptation can also mean testing. b. Matthew 6:13 Or from evil; some late manuscripts one, / for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
In short, He was teaching them to put their faith into practice. Whatever little bit faith, what you trust God to be capable of doing, that you know to be true, without a doubt, act according to it. You can achieve / affect much change with a little trust / faith in what He said, trusting that what you speak in His authority, and in line with His will, has the power to change the natural circumstances around you.
6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
He finds a way to make that happen. So correct your brothers (the way that He said, the many times that He said) and if they want to repair the relationship, they're coming up to you 77 times, yes—of course, they're not being an impediment, you are. The relationship can change for the better, obstacles removed, if you're willing to give them a chance.
Quote:
What is real forgiveness?
1. When there are no grudges/ill-feelings left against the wrongdoing you already talked about, addressed, and corrected; you don't continue to bring up that past wrong when you argue because it has been dealt with or corrected / rebuked already (exception being: they act like a hypocrite, something you forgave them for, they won't forgive in another so you bring it up; so, why should I forgive you for this if you won't forgive this in others? i.e. Matthew 18:21-35).
Matthew 18:21-35 (NIV)
21 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”
22 Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.[a]
23 “Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold[b] was brought to him. 25 Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26 “At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27 The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28 “But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins.[c] He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.
29 “His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’
30 “But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31 When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35 “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 18:22 Or seventy times seven b. Matthew 18:24 Greek ten thousand talents; a talent was worth about 20 years of a day laborer’s wages. c. Matthew 18:28 Greek a hundred denarii; a denarius was the usual daily wage of a day laborer (see 20:2).
But again, the theme of, "for the sake of correcting", not start more trouble, not out of malice and wanting to hold grudges with a person who sincerely wants to make things right with you.
2. What they did in the past doesn't affect how you decide to treat them in the present (thus no longer ignoring, refusing to speak to), especially since their wrong has already been addressed (rebuked, corrected). And they have their mind set on not doing it again.
John 8:11 (NIV)
11 “No one, sir,” she said.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.”
3. They agree with God. Otherwise, they're not your brother or sister, you're just doing favors for and watching out for your enemies / some stranger in the community; there's no fellowship there, no relationship of closeness, tied at the neck/yoked, walking in the same direction (because one of you disagrees with God /is acting like the world; the world isn't truly forgiven and intimately trusted outside of Christ and His Body).
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 (NIV)
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister[a] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”[b]
Footnotes:
a. 1 Corinthians 5:11 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a believer, whether man or woman, as part of God’s family; also in 8:11, 13. b. 1 Corinthians 5:13 Deut. 13:5; 17:7; 19:19; 21:21; 22:21,24; 24:7
Matthew 12:50 (NIV)
50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
Matthew 18:15-17 (NIV)
15 “If your brother or sister[a] sins,[b] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[c] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Footnotes:
a. Matthew 18:15 The Greek word for brother or sister (adelphos) refers here to a fellow disciple, whether man or woman; also in verses 21 and 35. b. Matthew 18:15 Some manuscripts sins against you c. Matthew 18:16 Deut. 19:15
Quote:
What is faith?
Trusting God for what He says He's capable of doing for you. Trusting His promises. Heeding His warnings when He says to do (or not to do) something because the consequences will happen as He said, and you believe it/are sure that they will happen as He said—despite not seeing the negative (and positive) consequences yet.
Hebrews 11:1 (NIV)
11 Now faith is confidencein what we hope for and assuranceabout what we do not see.
Romans 4:5 (NIV)
5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
2 Corinthians 5:7 (NIV)
7 For we live by faith, not by sight.
Swordsman of God
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Prophet of Holy Fire
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Posted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 5:54 am
WOW Swordsman this girl is a thumper
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:05 pm
Prophet of Holy Fire
WOW Swordsman this girl is a thumper
Please do not insult anyone here. As Christians we should lift each other up, not tear each other down with insults.
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