Please pray

[Aquatic_blue]

God knows the need.  

[Aquatic_blue]

OtakuKat

I'm Sorry to hear about your daughter. Keeping you all in my prayers.

Thank you.  

[cristobela]

[edited: formatting and a typo]

To keep things in sober perspective, consider those who can only consume their nutrition through a feeding tube, inserted directly into their stomach (through their abdomen, not their mouths whatsoever). The removal and loss of teeth, whether it happens to us in youth or old age isn't the end of the world. And childhood is a stage of development when our parents, full of wisdom, should lovingly train us in the way to go, preparing us with the skills necessary to sovereignly take care of our own bodies, as faithful stewards of it in line with our Heavenly Father's Will.

And on that note, from both a practical stand point in addition to prayer, humbly examine yourself to confirm that you're heeding the divine purpose our Heavenly Father gave to food for both your and your family's own good:

• 1 Corinthians 6:13 New International Version
  
  13 You say, “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food, and God will destroy them both.” The body, however, is not meant for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
  
  
• 1 Kings 19:8 New International Version
  
  8 So he got up and ate and drank. Strengthened by that food, he traveled forty days and forty nights until he reached Horeb, the mountain of God.
  
  
• Ecclesiastes 10:17 New International Version
  
  17 Blessed is the land whose king is of noble birth
      and whose princes eat at a proper time—
      for strength and not for drunkenness.

The purpose of food is to reach the stomach and be broken down into the nutrients the body needs for strength (even strengthening bones / teeth); just like the living bread reaches our innermost being to strengthen our innerman, enabling us to endure trials, temptations, afflictions, physical food strengthens our physical bodies. And to strengthen the teeth, of course we need the often mentioned calcium, but also vitamin D and the lesser acknowledged magnesium; they are needed to aid calcium's absorption in the body (as the stomach and other digestive organs break the food down to access those vital minerals).

Some sources rich in magnesium if you'd like to check and make sure they're incorporated into your diet: magnesium

Our decisions should be based on honoring the function God gave food (and the nutritional/strengthening information that it contains) and not be carried away by the world/its ways, allowing the lust of the flesh (including the lust of the eyes and the taste buds), to distract us from the main organ that food is actually meant for (the stomach / the innermost being), nor allow the flesh to dominate / determine how we may make decisions in our stewardship of our body that may compromise on our Father's Commands, on top of nutritional value, for taste (to be clear, the sense of taste has its purpose: to help us determine if something is rotting/too ripe, not ripe enough/too green, or just right, or if what we put in our mouth is food at all. But the senses by themselves can be deceitful and are not the only criteria that guide us. God's Word should guide ultimately, even above our stomach).

• Proverbs 23:2-3 New International Version
  
  2 and put a knife to your throat
      if you are given to gluttony.
  3 Do not crave his delicacies,
      for that food is deceptive.
  
  
• Philippians 3:19 New International Version
  
  19 Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is set on earthly things.
  
  
• Galatians 6:8 New International Version
  
  8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

The Holy Spirit wishes to honor the purpose He gave food; fallen flesh, in contrast, is given to gluttony/no restraint (and on the flip side, not eating enough) and not eating for strength, only taste/what's pleasing to the flesh and its senses. Side with the Spirit.

[Keep That Smile! Calcium and Vitamin D Prevent Tooth Loss]
[Sugar Is the Only Cause of Tooth Decay, Study Says]

Quote:

If you don’t want tooth decay, you should seriously cut back on the sugar. According to new research published in the journal BMC Public Health, sugars are the only cause of tooth decay in kids and adults.

https://time.com/3380563/sugar-tooth-decay/

[3 Surprising Ways to Keep Your Teeth Healthy]

Quote:

[...]

You need vitamin D to help absorb the calcium. Vitamin D is obtained from fluid milk, fortified soy and rice beverages, margarine, fatty fish such as salmon, and moderate exposure to the sun.

Fluoride is key. To a large extent, cavities can be prevented by giving children fluoride in the first few years of life. Fluoride is supplied through fluoridated water (not all municipalities fluoridate their water supply, however), beverages made with fluoridated water, tea, and some fish, as well as many brands of toothpaste and some mouthwash. Fluoride supplements are available for children who don’t have access to fluoridated drinking water. It is wise to check to see if the water supply in your area is fluoridated. Excess consumption of fluoride can cause mottling of the teeth.

Also needed are phosphorus, magnesium, vitamin A, and beta carotene. In addition to calcium and fluoride, minerals needed for the formation of tooth enamel include phosphorus (richly supplied in meat, fish, and eggs) and magnesium (found in whole grains, spinach, and bananas). Vitamin A also helps build strong bones and teeth. Good sources of beta carotene, which the body turns into vitamin A, include orange-colored fruits and vegetables and the dark green leafy vegetables.

[...]

https://www.thehealthy.com/dental/3-surprising-ways-to-keep-your-teeth-healthy/

The last article has other helpful information, including that nutrition of our mother's and our diet in childhood can affect the strength of our teeth. I would add, that although the world recognizes sugars as a cause (the only cause), I'm sure “pharmakeia” may play a part. So if it all possible, wherever possible, try to get your strength from foods. They are our God-given medicine first and foremost. Keep your immune system strong.

• Revelation 9:20-21 World English Bible
  
  20 The rest of mankind, who were not killed with these plagues, didn’t repent of the works of their hands, that they wouldn’t worship demons, and the idols of gold, and of silver, and of brass, and of stone, and of wood; which can’t see, hear, or walk. 21 They didn’t repent of their murders, their sorceries,[a] their sexual immorality, or their thefts.
  
  Footnotes
  
  a. 9:21 The word for “sorceries” (pharmakeia) also implies the use of potions, poisons, and drugs
  
  
• Revelation 22:2 New International Version
  
  2 down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

The world's medicine can be very poisonous in contrast to what God has provided for mankind to consume.

On the bright side, remember that God is sovereign and all things work out for the good of those who love Him. Our Heavenly Father may allow this, like with Paul, sending a thorn of Satan in his side, to keep you (and your daughter) from evil—and/or from further evil, if you're on that path already, to get you to pause and assess how you're walking, if you're being holy in all aspects of your life, and if not, but are being worldly/following "prince of this world" ways/honoring demons and doctrines of demons that have you doubting the Father's instructions, repent/turn it around. Count your blessings in gratitude and make sure to heed His Word in order to abide in the richness of His blessings:

• Malachi 2:2 New International Version
  
  2 If you do not listen, and if you do not resolve to honor my name,” says the Lord Almighty, “I will send a curse on you, and I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have already cursed them, because you have not resolved to honor me.
  
  
• Luke 11:27-28 New International Version
  
  27 As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, “Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you.”
  
  28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

P.S. - to re-emphasize, I'm providing the information for self-reflection's sake, not accusing. I'm not a witness to anything you may or may not have done. Nor have I insight as to why this may be happening to you otherwise (like a blameless Job, albeit he is the rare example, God bragging about him to Satan that no one else was like him on the face of the earth in his day. Paul was also blameless when he was sent a thorn in his side to prevent him from puffing up in the first place. But God proving / demonstrating something, and sin prevention aside, it would be a disservice not to bring up the other examples that Scripture is also filled with and quite frankly is the most common problem: humans causing their own—and their children's—downfall by their actions/decisions not in line with the Father's Will [and I humbly including myself in this]).

• 1 Corinthians 11:29-32 New International Version
  
  29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

That said,

Peace be with you, may He guard you and your daughter from dangerous paths, keep your hands, feet, eyes and the thoughts of your hearts from falling into the traps that this world is entangled in, and guard you in total tranquility as you harmonize completely with His Word, growing in the grace and knowledge of Christ.

heart

 

[cristobela]

Aquatic_blue

I'm not quite sure I understand your post 100%.

I, too, have done much research upon teeth (orawellness.com, wellnessmama.com, Weston Price evidence findings, tooth/organ meridian charts). Thanks to the internet, I have been able to gather a host of information and use what is safe and what we can. The fact is, it isn't helping as much and I'm stumped as to why. I took medication for 15 years (10 years on the same medication) and was told years after taking this medication that it saps nutrients from my body. After each pregnancy I lost a tooth. My body obviously didn't have the calcium/magnesium/vitamin D/phosphorous - whatever it was that it pulled from mine to give to the baby teeth, but I still couldn't give enough, I don't think. I took all the prenatal supplements, all the extra folate I was prescribed, and was told it was all safe. Now I'm thinking that it's not safe. Even though my whole family is eating an "as-organic-as-possible/as-phytic acid-free/as-sugarless-as-possible diet", my teeth are still falling out of my mouth. I do those yucky green juices, I take fermented cod liver oil/butter oil blend (nasty tasting stuff), I use eggshell calcium that I get from my own chicken's egs, etc. I have had 2 extractions this month and I'm so embarrassed. I'm not even old and I'm looking at the possibility of partial dentures already. While I was given the okay by my doctor to quit the medication, it still seems I have a long way to go to restore the damage if I can.

If this was solely diet based and the medication issues were out of the question, I'm sure my teeth would be great. My teeth weren't always like this. I actually had a great smile per dentist words once upon a time. They gradually got worse each year I was on that medication and there wasn't a whole lot I could do about it. I kept trying to take vitamins, but it was taking more than I could put in my body. When I finally pressed to get off of it, they checked all my tests and gave the okay. I pray that I never need the stuff again, but it's caused me a lot of grief. I feel like I've lost a piece of my life I can't get back. I'm so overwhelmed because I'm doing everything in my power to keep teeth in my family's mouth and it's not working right now, but it seems a lot of damage has somehow already been done.

I think I'm feeling real bitter...like why is this happening to me? Why is this my life? Why is this happening to me? Why is this happening to my kids?! I'm trying to overcome and have faith in God that He knows the why's and how's and will help us get through.

I understand you may come from a background which looks down poorly on medications or medical intervention or sorts. Perhaps even as "sorcery". May I ask, "Have you ever been on a medication for a disabling medical condition?"/"Have you ever had a disabling condition that could have killed you without the medication?"/"Have you ever had a disabling condition that kept you from living life safely without a medication?" Maybe it's never happened to you, but it has happened to many and the "pharmakeia" argument is one that tends to point to the person with medical illness as a sinner and the standpoint I've seen taken in churches that abide by this is of the utmost wrong towards people that are ill.

In Revelation 9:20-21, the word "sorceries" is mentioned and yes, "pharmakeia", is the word used to describe it and the Biblical usage of outline is:

1. the use or the administering of drugs

2. poisoning

3. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it

4. metaph. the deceptions and seductions of idolatry


Regarding this verse:

b. poisoning (Plato, Polybius, others): Revelation 9:21 (here WH text Tr marginal reading φαρμακῶν; many interpretations refer the passage to the next entry).
c. sorcery, magical arts, often found in connection with idolatry and fostered by it: Galatians 5:20 (where see Lightfoot) (Wis. 12:4 Wis. 18:13; for כְּשָׁפִים, Isaiah 47:9; for לָטִים, Exodus 7:22; Exodus 8:18; for לְהָטִים, Exodus 7:11); tropically, of the deceptions and seductions of idolatry, Revelation 18:23.

The most likely meanings here point to "poisoning" or "the magical arts".

The word that branches off into "drugs" is pharmakeus, which is: From pharmakon (a drug, i.e. spell-giving potion). It also means one who prepares or uses magical remedies or a sorcerer.


While I'm not saying that I agree with the medications and all their hideous side effects or that some people have definitely been done wrong by some heavy medications out there, or how they have the create this stuff in a lab because they can't patent nature - I will say that there is a time and a place for everything and there may be a time when someone's life is saved by a medication. There are times where children like me were ill and parents kind of have their arms twisted behind their back - your child needs this medication or you're doing medical negligence. Do you do the medication in hopes your child comes off of it or lose your child? I mean, it's a thing that can happen these days.

The medication did help me and now I'm at the point where I have the doctor okay not to use it anymore and hope that I can now continue to heal with food. However, I don't believe anyone who uses a medication their doctor prescribes is immediately in sin or under a type of sorcery.

Back then there were often times "the medicine man" or "shaman". While there may have been a few, natural, good ones back then - there have been some that would blame the patient (they didn't "accept" the healing) or something of the sort. Instead of blaming themselves, they blame the patient - that does nothing for healing anywhere. Sometimes they were delved into magic of some type that they used to heal with the power of demonic forces and not of a divine one.

Even what God has provided mankind to consume is almost non-existent. GMO foods, foods that have been bred to sell because they make sure the genetics pump out the most sugar possible, waxes put on fruits to look marketable, pesticides sprayed on food just to be sure that there isn't as much crop failure due to pests at the expensive of people's health, lack of vegetable diversity, etc. - Face it, we've come a long way from Eden. Our food system is in peril.

Even if you're posting this stuff to "help", being in the overwhelmed and stressed state I am, it's not the words I want to hear as I already place enough guilt upon myself as it is. It does sound accusatory the way this is written even though you feel you are "stating the facts." I'm not sure if you're a parent, but if you were and a doctor said there is something wrong with your child and that surgery is needed, I think you'd be stressing, too, and wondering where you went wrong even if it wasn't your fault and had nothing to do with you specifically because you'd do anything to take their place.

You cannot just pull scripture "snippets" and twist them to fit your situation here. In 1 Corinthians 11:29-32 - it does have surrounding context starting in verse 17 about "correcting an abuse of the Lord's supper." This has nothing to do with eating and drinking food in general - this is talking about taking communion and what ways are pleasing or displeasing to the Lord. You cannot use this for the sole meaning of "nutrition," that would be incorrect.

It's precisely because I don't intimately know you, your situation, nor what information you may already be aware of that I provided a range of possibilities in my reply to consider—for you to make any judgment calls (whether of being faithful or of having been straying / deviance, if there are any, in your life. To clear your conscience and calm yourself down, upon self-reflection, that you've chosen the best possible path in your set of circumstances.

• 2 Corinthians 7:8-11 New International Version
  
  8 Even if I caused you sorrow by my letter, I do not regret it. Though I did regret it—I see that my letter hurt you, but only for a little while— 9 yet now I am happy, not because you were made sorry, but because your sorrow led you to repentance. For you became sorrowful as God intended and so were not harmed in any way by us. 10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death. 11 See what this godly sorrow has produced in you: what earnestness, what eagerness to clear yourselves, what indignation, what alarm, what longing, what concern, what readiness to see justice done. At every point you have proved yourselves to be innocent in this matter.

Of what you decided to share, and trusting our Father's instructions, I wouldn't recommend that we consume from anyone's/anything's organs whose function it is to filter fluids in the body of toxic chemicals / poisons that the body naturally makes during the process of digestion (organs such as, liver, kidneys, etc). Those parts of the animal would be sacrificed on the fire, not eaten by the priest nor anyone else (of those who know and obey YHWH) in Scripture. Unlike other portions of the animal that would be eaten.

He continues to warn us that there still exist unclean things that can contaminate the physical body.

• 2 Corinthians 7:1 New International Version
  
  7 Therefore, since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.
  
  
• Revelation 18:2 New International Version
  
  2 With a mighty voice he shouted:
  
  “‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!’[a]
      She has become a dwelling for demons
  and a haunt for every impure spirit,
      a haunt for every unclean bird,
      a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.

The Book of Revelation is a vision Jesus sent to John about end times. In the literal, physical realm under the sun, unclean things still exist beyond unclean thoughts and attitudes. Unclean because of the function it continues to have on earth. Be it an unclean animal or an unclean thing like blood (which are good things in their proper place, that place is just not the digestive system; the liver filters the blood in the process of digestion, and yet the blood is not safe to consume despite the filtering/detoxifying); unclean things continue to physically exist and have an impact on our bodies if we consume them / bring it into the beginning of the digestive system, where it doesn't belong, in the same way unclean thoughts / unclean attitudes can contaminate our inner-being (and such thoughts and attitudes which can even have a physical effect on the body).

• Acts 15:19-20 New International Version
  
  19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood.

I'm not seeking to add grief and stress to your life but alleviate you of it (especially your conscience) if you've chosen faithfully. And if not, and you see that you haven't chosen faithfully in an area, to get you to repent in those areas that you see you still can, so that your conscience can rest, knowing that you're walking on the safe path faithfully, and knowing that there's nothing more you can do no matter what results (same mental state, both for walking faithfully or repenting to walk faithfully). And thus have peace with whatever happens after that. Because at that point, you know you've done everything within your reach. But helping you achieve that clean conscience is the goal:

• Hebrews 10:21-22 New International Version
  
  21 and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
  
  
• Acts 24:16 New International Version
  
  16 So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man.
  
  
• 1 Timothy 3:9 New International Version
  
  9 They must keep hold of the deep truths of the faith with a clear conscience.

Whether you're a deacon, leader over the church, leader in your house, anyone drawing near to Jesus. Maintaining a clean conscience is key to having peace in your innerman/with yourself, with other people, and with God. Whatever circumstances presents itself / whatever circumstances get sent your way in your life.

That said, knowing the purpose God gave the liver, and knowing He told us to abstain from blood, do not trust the world when it tries to pawn certain things like this (e.g. eating the dirtiest inward parts of an animal) off as a benefit to you. They don't submit to YHWH's Wisdom; they don't have the Father/the Son/the Holy Spirit's revelation.

• Romans 8:7-9 New International Version
  
  7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.
  
  9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ.
  
  
• Ezekiel 36:27 New International Version
  
  27 And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws.

The world does not submit to His Wisdom. So whenever there is a point of conflict between the world's advice and His Commands, what He said in the totality of Scripture, side with your Maker and rest easy in your conscience that you're not violating neither man nor God (whether things result how you'd prefer them to or not). How far you're willing to submit to what He has revealed to you is up to you and the level of faith and understanding He has given you, what He has allowed you to see. Beyond clear Commands, it's not my place to say what you should choose; I can only offer information for self-reflection so that you make an informed choice.

And if there has been more disobedience (than the cod liver oil), He may have mercy on your situation and provide healing upon seeing you trust, fully, in everything He says. There may be something interacting within our bodies wrongly if something He said shouldn't be there is in there, and that man's science cannot detect how they relate/interact. In faith, seeing you trust and obey His Instructions, He may open up opportunities or grant favor for things to have a different outcome depending on how you react to what He's telling you to do in His Word. Whether you resort to the type of thing typified by “healing balms”, doctors/physicians, (which is also used to refer to spiritual healing, repentance from wicked ways to the truth, repentance from a way that appears right to man but in the end is death, sinners needing a doctor physically and spiritually) or do not resort to healing balms and physicians whatsoever (as those examples also exist in Scripture, both do); whatever the case, God's favor has to be on you to be healed (with or without other creatures intervening to our knowledge) or His favor be on the person who asked on behalf of another to receive healing:

• 2 Chronicles 28:15 New International Version
  
  15 The men designated by name took the prisoners, and from the plunder they clothed all who were naked. They provided them with clothes and sandals, food and drink, and healing balm. All those who were weak they put on donkeys. So they took them back to their fellow Israelites at Jericho, the City of Palms, and returned to Samaria.
  
  
• Jeremiah 46:11 New International Version
  
  11 “Go up to Gilead and get balm,
      Virgin Daughter Egypt.
  But you try many medicines in vain;
      there is no healing for you.
  
  
• 2 Chronicles 16:12 New International Version
  
  12 In the thirty-ninth year of his reign Asa was afflicted with a disease in his feet. Though his disease was severe, even in his illness he did not seek help from the Lord, but only from the physicians.
  
  
• John 9:15 New International Version
  
  15 Therefore the Pharisees also asked him how he had received his sight. “He put mud on my eyes,” the man replied, “and I washed, and now I see.”

Jesus healing a man using mud as a natural solution/in the process. I'd consider that a healing balm. And I'd consider him a doctor, a good one.

I'm including the passage concerning the abuse of the Lord's Supper for how it relates to the topic of gluttony / disrespecting proper limits described in the chapter itself (people not respecting God's limits on the stomach. Plus, gluttony leading to hoarding of food for oneself which results in others not having enough to partake and even others getting drunk, losing one's sober mind, making the Lord's Supper about pigging out instead of the solemn purpose of the ritual as He Commanded, which shouldn't have anyone engaging in gluttony). A theme that gets repeated throughout Scripture.

• Zechariah 7:5-6 New International Version
  
  5 “Ask all the people of the land and the priests, ‘When you fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh months for the past seventy years, was it really for me that you fasted? 6 And when you were eating and drinking, were you not just feasting for yourselves?

At that point, they do have an idol problem (worshiping their stomachs, not God) just like greed is idolatry (so both physical idolatry and idolatrous attitudes). God sends judgment for those attitudes in the heart, not just the physical consequences of gluttony/limit-disrespecting on our bodies. Ergo, why I brought it up for consideration.

• Colossians 3:5-9 New International Version
  
  5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices
  
  Footnotes
  
  a. Colossians 3:6 Some early manuscripts coming on those who are disobedient

Because, again, I do not know what else, besides what you've stated, that you may or may not have done, or what—if anything—you're still doing that may be contributing. I'm offering information so that you make the self-assessment for yourself. The websites I linked to also warn against over-supplementing (going over a limit). I'm not saying navigating this corrupt world, trying to find the most faithful path to take, is easy, but of the things He does bring to our awareness [and mine] I also bring up to share, for your and anyone else reading who may not be aware, so that we guard against it in our lives; it's for our, our children's [even if not our own, but mankind in general's] good and even the rest of the systems in the environment's safety/well-functioning/good, not just the systems in our body.

These instructions He gave were given precisely because we live on a corrupt earth. And I think you've taken necessary precautions elsewhere in what you shared. But make sure to not set aside the least of the Commands because they were given for our benefit so that we thrive on a corrupt earth [again, I know it's corrupt thus not perfect options available, and less nutritious state of the soil and, consequently the nutrient density of what grows out from it, and by extension our bodies compromised, but where possible, despite corrupt conditions, and you see you can be faithful in that area of life to a Command, I would advise that you submit that area to His Word—even if the church at large does not teach / encourage to follow Christ's fully-submissive example to the Father's Commands, but teaches a demonic doctrine/interpretation that has you denying the Father, distrusting His warnings; maybe they do not outright reject Him, but by how they reason and what they put into practice, they do]).

• Deuteronomy 10:12-13 New International Version
  
  12 And now, Israel, what does the Lord your God ask of you but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to observe the Lord’s commands and decrees that I am giving you today for your own good?
  
  
• Deuteronomy 12:25 New International Version
  
  25 Do not eat it, so that it may go well with you and your children after you, because you will be doing what is right in the eyes of the Lord.

Unless Jesus comes back in our lifetime, we're all going to die from something due to sin and death in the earth. And there may also come a time when one decides, for themselves or as legal guardian of another life, whether to reject things like a painkiller and die under excruciating pain (even if under other circumstances, other people choose to take it, and they're not demonstrating the same thing by their life). That's for them to decide between them and God. I'm not making the decision for them, I don't know what God wants to achieve by their life and by their death, just supplying the Biblical precedents that do exist in both directions for them to make an informed decision, whether it (and its consequences) is an easy one to bear or not.

With the pharmakeia topic I brought up, that's an example of the person having to discern between themselves and God what to do in their particular situation. Similar thing with David: will David eat the showbread despite the consequences it will bring to someone else? He's free to make that decision. That's a choice he made, and one based on lies and deception (poison in spirit, same when dealing with physical poison; he was lying to the priest), but Jesus brought it up as a Scriptural precedent of a legitimate path to take, and example to consider when making tough life or death decisions and what Command to prioritize.

Unlike David though, Jesus Himself didn't transgress a single Command in what's written in the Law and the Prophets; otherwise, He would have been sinning Himself. And seeing both examples (compromise vs. not compromising even with the slightest detail), one is free to choose. But, again, soberly aware that if one were to violate a Command to deal with the effects of corruption (e.g. sin, death, unjust persecution) in this world, like David did, we have to be alerted of the fact and know that there will be consequences even if not to yourself directly (e.g. the priest and his whole family got massacred due to the deceptive interaction David had, roping the priest into his situation dishonestly), and even if the world doesn't tell you upfront what the consequences will be, His Word does/did warn. Even for a noble cause. Ahimelek, the priest, known or unbeknownst to him, made a choice that the consequences of giving a non-Levite the showbread to eat was worth it, he'd risk his life for David, even if he didn't know the lawless persecution of king Saul after him didn't change the fact that he'd be setting aside that little Command and doing so had consequences that he could not foresee. But YHWH's Word implied was wrong to do. (The historical narrative found in 1 Sam 21-22, those chapters for anyone interested.)

Ergo, what I'm saying is, count up the cost beforehand based on what God warned not what the world warns, not in light of what the world says or downplays in the solutions they offer, but in light of His Commands and soberly decide, with the fear of God above the fear of death in mind, if whatever you're seeking as a solution is something you really want to do / worth it. And if it is, then accept the prophetic consequences already foretold—even the least of the Commands will have these unforeseeable consequences—and accept the consequences whatever they turn out to be because you made the best possible choice that you were able to discern out of a clean conscience. Whether choosing to deal with death sooner rather than later for being faithful, or later rather than sooner for compromising, and the life circumstances that result out of that decision/compromise, we are not able to foresee all the consequences, but God was able to, thus why He gave a Command concerning it. If you're being faithful to that Command, then even if death results for being 100% faithful, then let your conscience rest easy. And if you chose not to be faithful, but compromise, even if life results though not being 100% faithful, then know you actually have to live with those consequences.

That's the point of my reply(now replies): to help you reach a place of peace with your decision, soberly assessed, whatever you decide, what to realistically expect when we're making less than perfect decisions (e.g. don't risk death, no anesthesia; lose baby teeth?; risk death with anesthesia, lose baby?) Whatever all the scenarios are, write them down, write the Commands that are coming to mind down, whatever choice has the consequences you're willing to live with, take that one), calm your mind and conscience whether you're being/have been faithful, to a Command despite society's persecution of it for being obedient to it, or if you haven't been faithful, help you reach that place of peace and clean conscience all the more if there is still unrepentant sin in your life that you are able to repent from and detect by anything I say [so, not that you find yourself caught between a rock and hard place, no matter what you decide, there are only sinful / Law-transgressing options. Though if that's the case, God knows]. But of what He does allow you to see and understand, and He makes a way, pick as faithfully as possible whatever the most faithful option to all of His Commands in your set of circumstances may be. It will work out for the good of everyone who loves God, whether it results in death or life, suffering or ease, let alone a more or less enjoyable childhood. Whether you get to keep the children He gave you or not, or keep certain customary ways of “doing upon the earth”, self-imposed by the culture or family tradition, not Him. Keep things in perspective, heavenly-focused / Him-and-His-Will-focused, not earthly:

• Psalm 73:25 New International Version
  
  25 Whom have I in heaven but you?
      And earth has nothing I desire besides you.
  
  
• Job 6:10 New International Version
  
  10 Then I would still have this consolation—
      my joy in unrelenting pain—
      that I had not denied the words of the Holy One.
  
  
• Romans 8:28 New International Version
  
  28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who[a] have been called according to his purpose.
  
  Footnotes
  
  a. Romans 8:28 Or that all things work together for good to those who love God, who; or that in all things God works together with those who love him to bring about what is good—with those who
  
  
• 1 John 5:3 New International Version
  
  3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

I do not know any other way to offer sound, effective consolation to you (or to anyone else). That's certainly the only thing that consoles me: having the highest, far-ranging perspectives from God's Word presented to me so that I can assess for myself, calm my conscience that I chose right, what decision has the consequences I'm willing to live with in my conscience even if it results in death, and if I haven't chosen right or the best, something brought to my attention to heed, then to correct myself, if there is still a way to guard more of myself and others [even others outside the household, in faraway nations], based on how I'm relating to the Word, even if I lose my life because of it, if that's what He chooses/if that's His will over my life for being faithful. He may also open up a path of opportunity / healing / life for being faithful. I'm not the Omniscient One to tell you that (how things will result one way or another). I can only encourage you to do good in your situation.

• Romans 7:12 New International Version
  
  12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

continued...

 

[cristobela]

continued...

edit: to correct typo's, add about the figs in Hezekiah's case + add a couple of citations

As far as making difficult decisions for myself, I'm of the mentality to jump up at the first Lawful opportunity to die / let go / not hold on (especially having come across Hezekiah's example early on in my Bible studies, I read the books chronologically in order, and that stays in my mind: Hezekiah who wanted to extend his life when YHWH told him to get his house in order; it was time to die. He prayed to God, that on the basis of the righteous life he led, to remember all that he did for God's people, take it into consideration and heal him, and God healed/acquiesced to his request. Hezekiah ended up having a wicked son during that extension of life, King Manasseh, who brought all kinds of idolatry and lawless bloodshed upon the land, which YHWH responded to with plague/calamity/judgment in the end; a lot of wickedness came through that son. By his Biblical example, I accepted early on, that when it's time to die, it's time to die. I won't even verbally fight God to extend my life for a meager few more years, I'm still mortal—15 years in Hezekiah's case—I say meager in light of the long lasting consequences over the generations that the extension to his life had on the land indirectly by siring King Manasseh in that time; likewise, the extension of my life, the consequences to everyone else for seeking to extend my life beyond YHWH's judgment of when it was the best time to die, even if accepting what He determines as "best timing" results in an excruciating death for me, painfully [though I pray, and prefer, it to be peaceful if Jesus doesn't return within my lifetime, but may His will be done]. And secondly, what struck me about Hezekiah's example: he extended his life by mere prayer, on the basis of the righteous life he had, not even resorting to pharmakeia—so I feel like that's one more degree of forcing an extension of my life beyond the natural limits and best timing, or dying at the hands of hostile enemies for my being 100% faithful or seeking to be. Consequently, I'm not the type to pray demanding I be healed because of having this example in my mind. Let alone resort to medicine. It's not my default, what I ask.

I do have a cousin who was born with brain damage; he reacts violently when not on medication. But what led to this? My aunt decided to have sexual relations with an already married man, not a widow (thus adultery); and these were the consequences that she now has to live with. Had she known YHWH before then, and been trusting of His Commands, she could have avoided this by not committing adultery. I don't know when she came to faith. But it was not the years we were born. I don't envy her situation. Nor do I condemn her situation that sees the need for the medication; because that would result in a violent death or injury for more than one person involved had he not been on medication; he's like a raging bull yet he's not an animal that can be put down. He's a human being. And my aunt's case is not my case. So, it's very easy for me to see and my stance towards pharmakeia is: evil, and necessary evil in some cases, but still evil as Scripture identifies it (which is why there is a Command against it in the first place). And it will have consequences to someone if we resort to it even for good. Just like capital punishment is Lawful, but killing God's anointed invites a curse even when he deserves it (King Saul, though he deserved to die; the Amalekite who assisted his death got killed by David in return). Some situations are tricky, and sometimes our compassion gets taken advantage of to entangle things even more for ourselves. So even if it comes across as cold, I have to make people aware of these consequences / realities that God's Word warns about even when they're being compassionate and noble.

I see Biblical precedent for numbing the pain with intoxicating substances, but Jesus didn't resort to that (the numbing of His pain); so people are free to decide what to do concerning that (and I'm not “looking down” on them on these matters, that no matter which you choose, God doesn't condemn, both have Biblical precedent spoken of favorably, or cannot be enforced on every life, you don't know what personal vows/oaths they took, how the effects reach beyond themselves, much less when there's no clear indication, either which way, of one being better or downright sinful. They're going to die anyway; they're just easing the pain, though not killing them/taking their life. They die on their own. Just limit yourself to the information I actually did present, don't read into it based on how “other believers” you've encountered may have quoted from Scripture, even the same verse. Because I'm not them).

And on top of Hezekiah's example driving me in the opposite direction, and not wanting to share his earthly focus, but be focused on what YHWH would assess to be the best timing for my life/my lifespan, my conscience finds it close to unbearable to have to continue living on this corrupt earth. Running through all the conditions, “is this right, is this wrong?” is crippling even if I'm not physically crippled. There's not much that is clean left to partake of. And to have to assess/to discern through all these conditions day in and day out, and knowing that even the least of the Commands breaking has negative consequences, that I'm going to hurt someone even indirectly by how I choose to live in this deviant society that doesn't teach me how to live without it, that makes discerning/assessing what the most righteous thing to do is all the more difficult—since Adam and Eve decided to become self aware, be god of their own decisions, and that affected our awareness too as their offspring—I'm exhausted. I feel "battered around" mentally at the prospect of what the world expects me to do: speak, apply, sell them poison, to their bodies, their minds, unclean things, submit to laws that have me denying the Father's. I cannot out of a good conscience do that. Plus having to deal with unbeliever's freaking out when you're faithfully doing something in obedience that flies in the face of their “survival as the ultimate end goal of life” mentality. No, being faithful to God and His Commands, over anything on earth and anything in the heavens, is.

Whatever cord that ties me to this life I don't have this forceful grip on it; it's a loose hold that really just wants to let go at the slightest hiccup. The only thing keeping me alive is adherence to all of His Commands (seeking to be). Having to be aware to this degree about making faithful decisions in the current, corrupt state of the world, how far it has devolved, is a burden I wouldn't/don't want to continue bearing longer than I have to. As you said, we're far from Eden-like conditions. The circumstances on earth are so convoluted that I can barely take it. To have to bring a child into that (which implies I get married first, redeemed from my father's / mother's house so things end favorably in God's best timing), would increase the discerning burden for sure, because now I can't just “selfless, servant”-sacrifice myself as easily; I'd have dependents, not just my own life, but being responsible and accountable for theirs. I don't have either (lawfully-wedded husband nor children), just a Chihuahua and if I could, I would choose death for him and myself. Things like rabies vaccinations which are unavoidable, lawfully mandated, I submit to with a clean conscience because He set the governments over us. If it were possible to have him taken away from me, if I refused “pharmakeia” services otherwise [beyond what's lawfully obligated], would be a hidden blessing for me (if I'm being honest and I am); because then I wouldn't have to deal with any burden whatsoever on my emotions [though not my conscience; my conscience would be fine] to deny him anything if he were in discomfort/pain. It's easy to make that decision to suffer in pain for myself, not as easy to subject someone else to it. But the Father did of His Son; I can do it for my Chihuahua. I'm not saying it's easy to discern, but regardless I do have to provide the information, as Scripture does, that would indicate that pharmakeia isn't safe. Even when we use it for what we would deem noble/good causes, they're going to have consequences. Obviously, if in someone's case that is a necessary evil, so be it, but that does not negate that it is still evil and will have consequences, even if the world downplays it, God's Word is honest about them.

But whether I'm “gift-of-celibacy”-ing, “staying single/unmarried to avoid the troubles of this world” like Paul and keep my undivided devotion on the Lord or not, and choosing to be accompanied by a brother in the faith / in Christ later and are given children by the Lord or not, none of that changes the aim of my replies to you: if you're being faithful in everything, to get you to soberly accept whatever is happening, under His Sovereign control, and have peace that you're on His path of safety. And if there is something you're not being faithful in, change it to be more compliant, then change it, have further peace to your conscience and avoid further unforeseeable difficulties.

• Psalm 119:165 New International Version
  
  165 Great peace have those who love your law,
      and nothing can make them stumble.
  
  
• Philippians 4:6-9 New International Version
  
  6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. 7 And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.
  
  8 Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things. 9 Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me—put it into practice. And the God of peace will be with you.

Those two passages covers everything from practical obedience to the Commands, obeying the Word of God, to the attitudes and thoughts of your mind, what I've been emphasizing equally. Make a decision trusting in everything God said, whichever direction, and then let it go. Don't stress over it. I'm guiding you through things to consider so that you can reach that place of peace and assess for yourself whether or not there are any areas to repent of so you can reach that peace, whatever happens. And if you've obeyed totally, then, again, to have peace with your decisions. Let nothing and no one disturb you from it regardless of the consequences, even persecution from the world or your own people.

The Scriptures / the Word of God—and the Living Word of God's, Jesus', example—is what I'm presenting to you as the the highest thing to keep in focus (not earthly things like an enjoyable childhood, or the losing of teeth, as something you allow to throw you into in a state of stress about, outside of peace into unrest. God doesn't care about external beauty. So if He doesn't, then don't let the losing of teeth or a once beautiful smile bother you; we didn't always have a beautiful smile [infancy] and many lose their teeth as they age, some earlier, some later. You still have your ability to eat / ingest strengthening nutrition even if that takes another form than being able to chew as you once did. And if [again, if] your bodies grow weak, and you're never able to see healing, despite you doing everything right, then accept that too. You did everything that was asked of you. We're not immortal yet, ridded of corruption and decay in our bodies. For some that has been accelerated. Others decay more slowly, but we're all decaying, every part of our body. Like flowers fade and wither so does beauty. Don't let that bother you.

Keep your priorities heavenly so that you have a transcendent peace about the situation, soberly keeping it all in perspective. Don't be offended when someone who is totally unfamiliar with your life circumstances comes along and presents the foundation upon which we build and struggle to make those faithful discernment decisions that are clean in His sight, and to help you discern, and guard our bodies, minds, and consciences clean that we've honestly made that best decision with respect to the earth, man, and God by what we do. To keep ourselves in peace as long as we live on this corrupt earth, whatever your circumstances are.

Having someone, who does not know you nor everything going in your life, bring up all these things to consider, may not be what you wanted to hear, but it's what we need to hear especially if there is something we can still do to help guard ourselves in a certain area of our lives [unlike Job's friends, I'm not insisting that you did do something despite my not having witnessed it, I'm saying in case this is so. You revealed one]; I didn't know one way or another, so I supplied a feast of things to consider. And to be fair I cannot make judgment calls in either direction neither of wrongdoing nor lack thereof when I'm not witness to what you're doing / what you have done or not (nor do you have to divulge any of that; that wasn't the point of my reply, but for you to use my reply to self-assess for your own peace of mind and to confirm / clear your own conscience that there's nothing you're overlooking for your/their own good).

Whenever (and sometimes it's unavoidable), we make decisions that compromise on even the least of the Commands, there will be consequences we have to live with (presuming that the compromise resulted in our continued life)—or something that someone down the generations has to live with—unavoidably, even if we did set a Command aside for a good reason, to guard life, preserve the function of a body part. But the way we went about it was forced and that will have consequences. Man's medicine is not the same as God's healing (and even God's healing, like in the case of Hezekiah, he used prayer alone [and Isaiah later used figs somehow as a natural remedy 2 Kings 20:7], it still could have unwanted and unforeseeable consequences in the negative, for forcing our lifespan longer [or shorter] than what He initially decided for you as best, and revealed to you as best—with respect to the time/age we're dealing with, be it perfect conditions meant to live eternally or corrupted conditions, if you die, then you should die xyz date set by YHWH when He said; I'd pray for that, His will, not mine, not even to extend my own life by prayer alone). And we can recognize all these things and not necessarily be “looking down” on people, for whichever healing they experienced, who've resorted to medicines, healing balms, and doctors (as one could say that Jesus served in the capacity of) or not (like Hezekiah, got healed in response to prayer from afar with no balms, no mud applied to his body [though yes figs at Isaiah's instruction. The figs + prayer working together], no visible, physical presence of God manifesting on earth Himself, though Isaiah receiving revelation [presumably] to help Hezekiah heal after he prayed and God said yes).

And if one were rebelling in some way against God's perfect will/best timing, and we can recognize that, there's no crime in pointing out that general attitude even if the rebellion results in life, and it came about by God's healing alone in response to prayer (still talking about Hezekiah). Nor is it wrong to continue warning against Pharmakeia like Scripture also continues to do. Pharmakeia doesn't cease being a threat just because we can find some good uses for it. I'm aware of what Pharmakeia is, and what idolatry in all its forms is. Not just shamanistic magic, but idolatry can be as simple as worshiping your own stomach, not heeding YHWH's limits for the stomach, or being the slightest bit greedy as the verses declare.

When it comes to my life, my mind is very present on verses like these and oriented in that direction (so I don't see eye to eye with most people):

• Isaiah 57:2 New International Version
  
  2 Those who walk uprightly
      enter into peace;
      they find rest as they lie in death.
  
  
• Revelation 14:13 New International Version
  
  13 Then I heard a voice from heaven say, “Write this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.”
  
  “Yes,” says the Spirit, “they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them.”

So, for me personally, I cannot relate to the Hezekiah's who would want to extend their life beyond YHWH's wisest timing, even if that means enduring through pain for a short time, because on a spiritual level, I'm already having to endure the pain of living through this life / discerning through this utterly corrupt, compromised world that does not make it easy for my conscience to breathe. I'd rather be in physical pain unjustly for a little while, than have my conscience in pain. A shipwrecked conscience is suffocating. And, for reasons stated before, not wanting to force extend my life even by prayer, I'm all the more wary of using things that are outright poison (prayer is not, prayer is good, so let alone poison) to extend my life as a “solution” for the reasons you acknowledge; the side effects, but not just to myself, the environment as well and its continued use down the generations. So if it can be avoided, I'd avoid using it, but again what I'm signing up for or not doesn't change the truth of what Scripture says in its totality.

There will be consequences that we live with if we compromise (even understandably for a noble cause, allowed by Jesus, approvingly [as far as I can tell], of Ahimelek's sacrificial, “let the curse fall on me”-behavior, for allowing David to eat of the showbread. Even if not verbally stated, that is what he was stating by how he decided to act for David). That's just the sober reality of having to live in a world that is corrupt. Don't beat yourself about having fallen to the world's dishonest deception; Eve did too (the lying serpent painted something as a benefit, downplayed the consequences that God already warned about in in His Word to them, “no, it'll be totally safe”; it wasn't. If it breaks God's Instructions there will be consequences). But to avoid what can be avoided and avoid this kind of deception by heeding His Commands, the complications/sufferings in life that we unduly invite/allow/don't guard against, I point to the Commands, a reminder (in case one is needed) to check the areas in our lives that we still can change, to trust in His Instructions, walk in faithfully, so we can have peace no matter what results. Death or life. Knowing that we submitted to the highest standard there is, so we're not violating neither God nor man, gives us peace about our decisions. Whether we're currently walking that faithfully, or there's an area we still need to put our guard up against.

At this point of my life, knowing the example of the One we worship, seeing old age / surviving in such a corrupt place, isn't even my goal or desire, especially if it means having to compromise on the Commands. And it's only because of the restraints of God's Commands that I bother not neglecting myself to death. I pray for an early death, albeit a peaceful one. That's my preference. Since you asked: I personally wouldn't take medication to survive. I avoid it. It's a point of contention between my legal guardians and myself; we don't see holding on to life the same way and granted I have less to be accountable for. I just have my life. I know my decision is easier than theirs and yours. The pain of having to see someone dying, especially someone more vulnerable than you, and you helplessly can do nothing about it; no one prefers to see that (unless they enjoy death but that's a sinful nature). So they try to alleviate their own suffering of having to witness someone else suffer by offering them to alleviate their pain, even forcefully when they don't want it.

But my tight or loose grip on my own life doesn't change that I too have to live within the restraints of His Commands, and not just commit suicide like a Judas. And because I'd want Him to answer my prayer that if I die before Jesus returns to make it a peaceful one, and one that avoids unleashing more harm than necessary on people's bodies and minds, then I obey the Commands wherever possible. In that way I am similar to Hezekiah, knowing this:

• John 9:31 New International Version
  
  31 We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly person who does his will.
  
  
• Psalm 40:8 New International Version
  
  8 I desire to do your will, my God;
      your law is within my heart.”
  
  
• 1 John 3:22 New International Version
  
  22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we keep his commands and do what pleases him.

But in the total opposite direction of Hezekiah's prayer: because I want to ensure my death, if Jesus doesn't return within my lifetime, is as I asked for: a peaceful one. Though, may His will be done above my own if He disagrees.

Again my circumstances and attitudes towards life doesn't change the truth of His Commands, what results / the consequences when even the least of these Commands are broken, which we cannot foresee. So if we want things to end favorably, whatever that looks like to God (our life or our death), and we're allowed to see something that we can show more trust of God about in our life, then that's my recommendation: obey it (presuming you aren't already doing so). Even if Christians don't fully agree with Christ's example of full submission, even if what we were facing were to be life-threatening, to us or someone in our care.

God is not obligating you to put your daughter under anesthesia if you don't want to risk losing her to anesthesia. His Commands certainly are not prohibiting you from avoiding anesthesia. And if the biggest concern is that she won't be able to enjoy her childhood as much, if she doesn't go under anesthesia and you don't want to deal with the consequences of anesthesia, then it doesn't seem to be a stressful option to take [not go through with it] if that's the only consequence: less enjoyable childhood, also knowing that it doesn't violate the Commands. And if you can't withstand the thought of her being under anesthesia, due to physical ramifications that will result to her and others, or to your conscience, then don't subject her to anesthesia. If God-willing she survives and lives on to adulthood (surviving whether going under anesthesia or not, just life in general), for her adult teeth to grow back, thus your limiting this negative effects to her childhood? Either way, from the sounds of it, you're saying she'll still have the ability to eat, even liquids or pureed foods. So I was trying to reassure you that, if you can't stomach the thought of putting her under anesthesia, that's fine. In God's eyes. If you cannot sleep at night, thinking that anesthesia is a horrible decision, then don't choose it. Regardless of what people think of you. Regardless of the consequences, the persecution; your conscience should not be shipwrecked.

I don't know what it's like for other people, but if my conscience is not at peace with a certain action, I cannot function and would rather die/and I get into this "kill me now" attitude in dread of what I'll have to decide, in case I can't honor what's violating my conscience and reject it. But at the end of the day, I'm not one who is very tied to life, who has very many ties to this earthly life, forcing neither myself nor others to live on earth if Commands need to be transgressed. So asking me will not give you anything delightful/pleasing to hear if that's what you were expecting. If you mean having other people take her away? Child Protective Services, I can't foresee what will happen. But, in my case, regardless of whether the consequences pain me later or not, my conscience and complying with what I think is most faithful to God would have to come first. And if I could do that, and also appease others’ concerns (or avoid people meddling, with His Divine Favour on the situation, great). But my conscience and relationship to God comes first, I do try to submit to His hierarchy for the household, especially as an unmarried daughter, but otherwise I do not let the opinions of others disturb my conscience over what I decide to do in full devotion to the Lord.

I'm very much about finding ways to harmonize our lives in a way where we don't have to transgress and that I can see from God's Word leads to peace (innermost, first and foremost, but also bodily); I identify what in my life is violating a Command and repent of it. I know the Commands, whichever it is, will be guarding well-being in the long run to everything involved on planet earth, even the soil. For living beings, guarding their mind in what's right on a physical, mental, emotional, psychological level; and if it hurts, it hurts you in just the right way, whether I immediately see the benefit or I don't. And only after I obey, deeper understanding comes later, certain life events develop, and I see what He was guarding me from. So when there's a path more closely faithful to what I see in Scripture, even if that results in not living up to other people's standards, I take it because it's more compliant with YHWH's Commands and what my conscience can tolerate. I have no guarantee for my future existence and I'm okay with that because, from what I'm able to see, I didn't have to deny any of His Word or violate anyone else. I die as sacrifice alone. That's my focus. And because that is my focus and I do seek to harmonize all aspects of my life to His Word—everything in His Word, every Command—that's how I end up advising others; that's what comes out of my mouth.

Do not take it the wrong way. I trust everything—every Command that YHWH ever commanded, as it is written in Scripture, because I know/trust that whatever He said, He said with our own good in mind. He's not a cruel God who Commanded unsafe things that lead to harm; that's what the world and the spirits who influence them does without His Wisdom. His perspective is the highest. There's no need to have a knee-jerk reaction feeling attacked when Scripture is presented to you. Everything written is for our good. And there has been nothing unstably handled in what I presented to you when you open up the context of the chapter. Similarly, as it relates to the articles (of secular observations about the vital minerals in food), I faithfully quoted from them too without distorting their context.

TL;DR – I'm saying to consider these Commands, Biblical examples, precepts and themes:

[1] to help you clear your conscience, calm down, reach peace about the consequences going on if you're already walking faithfully in them; and can't find ways to be more faithful, your heart already perfect in obedience.

[2] to also self-analyze yourself against them so if there are any areas you should guard yourself in that you're not currently guarding, but He tells you to, yet you are leaving room open—unnecessarily—for attack (even from God Himself, any activity that is slightly demon-honoring, idolatrous, gluttonous, or greedy [was not saying that you do all these things, but to analyze and see if you do them even in spirit] that He Himself warns He will send judgment on), to repent of them if you do them and guard yourself on that front.

[3] that even when we choose the best option, which we were able to see at the time, it's also true that: when neither option is perfect, and even the least of the Commands are broken, there will be unavoidable negative consequences—some you may live to see in your life time, immediate like in David's life, but others not in our lifetime (but more like the consequences developed fully in the lives of Hezekiah's sons after him, after he passed away).


(even for good things like giving showbread in the Levitical priesthood to someone who was not a Levite. We can all agree that was good to do, for David, because Jesus said it, but that still had consequences to Ahimelek [the priest who handed him the bread] who broke the Command [not exactly the same issue that Jesus was correcting the Pharisees on by bringing the example up: Jesus didn't break a Command. The erring Pharisaical interpretation of how not to break the Sabbath, and what the Law actually allows you to do on the Sabbath, do good, things the Law allows, the Law doesn't prohibit you from healing/being healed and carrying your mat back home. The Law doesn't prohibit you from saving an animal from a ditch, in fact it tells you to help them up if you see them fallen over on the road [Dt 22:4]. Animals are heavy; that is a burden, but Lawful to do on the Sabbath. What Jesus was correcting them about was their traditional way of interpreting the Commands that obscured what all of the Commands taken together were saying and actually allowing or prohibiting]; my point, however, is the documented historical reality that Jesus referred to, what happened sequentially in that interaction with David in its full context.)


So, not just the David's to know that seemingly harmless lying can also have unintended effects (not just bearing false witness in court, but lying in day to day interactions, even to save your own life), can result in unexpected victims for distorting the truth even in the slightest, but also the other side: for the Ahimelek's who break a Command, despite being presented with a false narrative about the reality going on [David lied] / not knowing the consequences that would result, not knowing the full truth of the situation, but you know that YHWH's Commands say "no, don't do that", but you proceed anyway, you will not be guarded for choosing to proceed in that direction. Something is going to happen, accept it when it comes [massacre on his family; he could not foresee that, for helping David in this way, despite David not informing him of the truth—angry king Saul persecution—God's Commands said not to, but he proceeded. And if that's the case, and you're aware counted up the cost, so be it. But don't be surprised when a less than perfect decision was made].

Needless to say, I do not know the cause of how your body is reacting, nor am I claiming to know as I said, just offering things to consider, implement, and guard against in case they do have some interconnected effect that simply obeying a Command would guard against.

I think #3 is the hardest to see the heart of my intentions, but to summarize it: I did not insinuate that discerning through any of this is simple. Sometimes you choose a necessary evil, but it will have consequences despite doing it for good motives (even for God / His anointed i.e. for David).

And having that expectation, consciously aware of it, then have peace however it turns out, no surprises. Or if you only saw the evil in hindsight and are now reaping its effects, still have peace: God can have mercy if He sees you fully trust Him and what His Word says. Repent of thinking/going contrary to Him. And for the others that you can see preemptively, and can avoid violating, you see a more obedient option, do choose to obey in that area in order to avoid unnecessary suffering we invite onto ourselves for not heeding a Command (some suffering will come for obeying too). The point is to strive to be faithful to Him and His Commands regardless of whether we suffer for it. And regardless of whether or not those who teach us the Commands try to say there's no benefit to obeying it; there is. As long as we live on this earth and these heavens, the warnings in the Commands still guard our good if heeded and are still relevant for how to live amongst a corrupt creation. My mention of demons was to refer to doctrines of demons that has us denying obedience to the Father's warnings, and limits, like Satan tempted Eve with. Whether it's one instruction or several that He later elaborated on as creation continued to decay to guard against the harm for our good. And if you're being faithful like Job, then have peace about your situation as you continue to do good.

I do hope / expect my intentions behind my reply are now crystal clear, no ambiguity. gaia_diamond