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Well, it really depends on what the Devs want to do... Do they want most/some more of us CL 10s to appear out of the woodwork when they change/release something? Or do they want us to stick around all the time and be relatively happy?

Most people want (and seem to assume, I think) that it's the latter.

If they do want us to stick around, they'll have a lot of work to do, including a CL 9/10 only area or some ingenious thing to simulate infinite content. On the other hand, you can pull the "Casual MMO" stunt and say that they don't really intend for people to play every day unless they're going completionist on zOMG! (which has kept quite a few people entertained)

I think of the Casual excuse more, and say that the people who complain of having nothing to do are expecting too much. Go home, show's over. Find something more lengthy and time-consuming- At least until another update/Chapter 2. Because if you're whiny already, how whiny are you going to get during those 6-12 months when they're doing Chap. 2 exclusively?

Yeah. That's certainly a part of it. I guess zOMG! wasn't designed to handle bored end-gamers.

Hmm. To slap players with restrictions because end-gamers are sticking around. That's tricky....

Also, why is my captcha saying "lodged pelvises" o.O;;

I think that the devs are really pushing the concept that as a CL 10, the entire game is your content. For example, every "hard-mode" instance is another activity for CL 10's. I think they've had a hard time getting users to accept that, which isn't very surprising. Most games don't encourage you to lower your power/CL and go back to earlier areas after beating the game, but that's exactly what zomg does. So, in a way, it's flawed logic... and I agree, we need more things to do at CL 10, unsuppressed.

Qixter has said that he wants to add content for CL 9+ endgamers, and I'm hoping he'll pursue that. I'm guessing that if they are going to add more content for CL 10 players, they'll begin working on it after this update (ring balance), or perhaps after the next update (VoIP, probably). Only time will tell.

Anyways, I guess my point is that I agree with you - more CL 10 content plz. I think the devs recognize that there needs to be more CL 9+ content, but I also think that they view the entire game as CL 10 content. Mini-events and boss-lair difficulty levels were both attempts to encourage that idea (as are CL caps and the like). Hopefully in the future they will add something for us endgamers to do without suppressing.

I will add my agreement to the problem of end game content, despite this not being a complete game but that is dicking with semantics so I won't pursue it.

They are setting it up for more and more CL 10 players to be made with almost every update. Case in point being the whole orb update, orb spills, etc. Saying the whole game is end game content is flawed logic from the beginning. The whole game isn't end game. End game means after the main content, not go back and do it all over again, that is Game Plus. Big difference.

I also find that they are doing their best to make it unplayable except for those who wouldn't be considered "Casual Gamers" in the first place. You are pretty much having to follow strict leveling guidelines to fight any of the instanced bosses. Worse yet, they are even taking away some instances for reasons that utter baffle me.

On the whole, you are right but the biggest problem is the fanboy userbase. Anything that gets removed or dicked with, they yell at anybody who questions it. They are usually the first to tell you to ******** off and play something else. Unfortunately, I lack a throat punch function on my desktop so it is a problem that seems without end.

I just wanted to add to DWN's comment about the userbase... You can't ignore the fact that there is a portion of the userbase that will complain about nearly any change implemented. I'm not saying that either one is better than the other, just pointing it out. There are the Chronic BAAAAAWers and the Unquestioning Fanboys/slaves.

And what instances are they getting rid of? O_O

@OMFG Taylor: I think you hit on something important there. The "whole game is your content" approach runs contrary to the otherwise linear progression. Maybe the problem would be reduced if people were introduced to suppression earlier in the game?

Maybe have quests which require you to return to old areas and reduce your power level. If you condition them to be used to doing that, then maybe the problem will resolve itself?

It will be interesting to see if the problem with "griefers" is relieved with the addition of endgame content.

@DWN: xd Yeah, that fanbase is why this is hidden away in my journal. Anyway... I wouldn't go so far as to say it''s flawed logic.. it's incomplete logic. Well, okay arguably since it's incomplete it's flawed >.< Speaking as a bit of a noob programmer, it seems like they're trying to recreate a new and unique game, but they're going about it using tried and trusted techniques, which just don't work...

@OMFG Taylor: Oh god, I hate the baawers. They single handedly ruined any chance of a reasonable argument for the need of an end-game area being heard D:

Either way, they are trying to add new ground by making you go back the way you came. I honestly just don't see a point in the CL system with how they are doing things. They also seem to be hung up on unique instead of good. It is a horrific thing for programmers to do. Some things are used for a reason, because they work and work well.

I fear one of the biggest parts of their problem is that they are trying to reinvent the wheel instead of making a functional car. Like you said, they are going about it the wrong way and thus taking any feeling of accomplishment players should get.

One thing thats bugged me is no matter how much you ask the devs 'how is the memory leak issues' (In other words: lag) they don't answer you. I'd be fine if they just gave an answer, good or bad, but not a peep. Really bugs me.

I think the flaw in the zOMG is the way they are selling the game off as and yet, thus far, the game isn't the casual MMO we think it should be. If it was casual, there'd be lots of other stuff to do besides killing monster. Right now the only games that are souly that you don't have to kill anything are Fountain and Gluckens. If your a low CL, you have to fight anything on the Greens to play Goof and the orb spills require you to reduce your CL, causing you to have to fight anything you run into (you could try to run but that doesn't always work).

It be one thing if they had gotten an expansion out real fast and focused more on getting things like rings and such fixed earlier on but its been almost a year and the only thing to really do at this point is kill things. I'm not complaining about that but it gets boring for awhile with nothing else to do going on. And I gave up with the daily chance so don't know if it gives orbs or rings.

Rest of the issues are mostly those that can't truthfully be fixed right now sense zOMG is still young. Mostly things like ring variaty, recipe gathering, stuff like that.

@DWN: Yes... there's a definite point that unique doesn't mean useful or good. A triangular wheel is unique, but has obvious failings. I think though, the problem is not so much trying to be unique, but rather that in trying to be unique, they're making mistakes by using old approaches. Going same-old same-old in design approach, but making systems that have (arguably) never been made before.

And that's why we're here. To provide an inspirational boot up the arse.

@dFangX: While I do think that more things outside of combat to do with the rings would be nice (see puzzle thread), they don't really address the concerns of the developers that have lead to restrictions.

Soulbinding. C.L. Caps. (I still find it amusing how many players think that the game would explode if you allowed players to fight KKD at C.L. 10.0). The Great Buff Nerf (applies at targets C.L.) etc...

I'm still waiting for one of them to actually make an argument that makes sense about CL Caps on instances. I'll be old and dead before that occurs.

As for unique, eh, they are using old methods in a backwards way it seems. They believe that pushing forward is done by adding stuff to the beginning. I understand tweaking your work but seriously. Oh well, I am beating a dead horse at this point.

Personally... I've never seen the allure of killing weaker bosses at CL 10.0... I've done it before, and I found it thoroughly unsatisfying. Maybe that's just me?

This is my argument about CL caps on Boss instances:

People are lazy. If they're offered a choice between letting a CL 10.0 rape a boss for them or having to actually fight it, most will let a CL 10 do it for them. That's exactly what happened to me with Shewolf, back when she was outside of her instance. I was walking by, and I saw a high CL taking huge chunks of her life away with each hit and taking no damage. I quickly ran up and got one hit in before she died. And got credit! So basically, any challenge that the developers wanted She-wolf to pose to me was thrown out the window.

I've seen the same thing happen with the DMP. CL 10 players camping outside, recruiting lower CLed players, and just blazing through to the OMGWTF. These areas are supposed to offer somewhat of a challenge, are they not?

I'm imagining a response along the lines of "Well, it's their choice! If they want to breeze through the game, that's up to them!" and in a sense, that's true. But... from what I've seen, 90% of players would go with the CL 10. When offered a clear choice between easy victory or a challenge where they might die, most would walk the path of least resistance and opt for the guaranteed win.

And if that's the case... then what's the point of even having the boss lairs as part of the chest chain?

@DWN: I've heard arguments that make sense from a development point of view, but I think there are better ways of solving those issues *points at journal entry*

@OMFG Taylor: It's not just you, but it does differ between players. There's a certain amount of satisfaction in blowing an old nemesis into tiny little bits.

And now, I have two points to your argument,

1) Is powerlevelling really all that bad?

2) I think there's a better way to approach the problem than restrictions. I've never seen powerlevelling performed quite like it is in zOMG!, and I suspect (as per journal post) that it's a result of C.L. 10.0 players being thrown back into the lower levelled areas.

P.S. The final dungeon, can be completed at C.L. 1.0 if you have the right friends. Where's your challenge now? =P

On the level of making the game fair and taking away easy short cuts, I suppose CL restriction is useful in that sense in that it prevents you from assisting players at a much higher CL then the monster. This of course dosn't stop anyone from going ahead of their CL to higher CLs but, unless you're really nice, no one at the moment will take anybody on a Endboss run unless you are CL 10... I might be wrong but who in their right ind right now would take a gimp to SS when its broken and over charged in difficulty?

I think they need to make the CL restrictions go both ways: keep stronger players from taking part in low CL areas and keep low CL players from going into the higher, stronger areas. Not a major lock out, like maybe .2 from being the indicated CL for the area your heading into really. Just be fair really and ensure that both sides of the coin are addressed.

@Val: I think you hit the nail on the head. No, there's nothing wrong with powerleveling, but it should be a distinct choice. As you mentioned in point two, zOMG is a game that encourages CL 10.0's to go back to earlier areas. Low and high CL players co-exist. How many people do you think will actually legitimately fight a boss when help is right there and so easily accessed? Especially because, if it's anything like the DMP was, CL 10.0's will be there recruiting low CLed players.

I haven't seen a solution that both addresses that problem and doesn't introduce restrictions of its own. The way I see it, some sort of restrictions needs to be put in place. The combination of CL caps and difficulty levels seems to address the issue very nicely - you actually have to fight the boss (no one can one hit kill it for you, making the entire battle/quest pointless) AND you can choose how hard you want the battle to be. The main downside that I hear is that you can't go back and fight bosses at higher CL's. I think the pro's outweigh the con's.

I know some people like to "overlevel" to make a fight easier... but the problem is that unrestricted CL caps introduce too many issues that aren't easily addressed. CL caps give you the same result - an easier fight - but in a different manner.

I've heard some people suggest that (for example) KKD stops scaling at CL 3.5, allowing you to fight her at CL 4.0 and have an easier fight - essentially, a form of over-leveling. I just see that as a more complicated way of implementing difficulty levels. You get the same fight as on "easy mode" (that is, the animated are approximately .5 CL lower than you are), but it's done in a much less intuitive way, and makes it harder for players who want a challenging fight to figure out what CL they should be.




A couple things - You can no longer do this, you have to be CL 8.0 or higher to enter the whirlpool now. And... the people who got you there (as in, got the CL 1.0 to EB), still had to fight appropriately level animated along the way. So it's not quite the same situation.

Note that I think that the minimum CL for SS is too high/unnecessary. If they actually felt that a min CL was needed, I think that a CL 7.0/7.5 cap would be more appropriate.

@dFangX: It's useful, but is it the best of fixes? It just feels... half-assed to me.

Also, regarding bottom C.L. caps: See my response to Taylor below.

@Taylor: You're inconsistent. First you say it should be a choice, then you imply that it's wrong by saying "How many people do you think will actually legitimately fight a boss when help is right there and so easily accessed?". Sounds like "Sure, it's a choice, but choosing to power level is wrong." xd

I can understand not wanting people to zip through the game, but I think there's better ways to address the previous plague of powerleveling (if it is indeed an issue, I've seen more noob C.L. 10.0s appearing AFTER powerleveling was discouraged) than restricting others on the way they want to play.

Regarding your point about levelling being less intuitive... Is it really that hard to understand? Stronger Character = Easier Fight. Weaker Character = Harder Fight. Not exactly rocket science D:

Damnit! Bottom C.L. caps are the ones I hate the most. It's gimping skilled players. D:

@Everyone: Taking into mind Taylor's idea about there needing to be a restriction... Which is more restrictive - Forcing everyone to con green when crewed, or forcing people to be a certain level to fight a boss?

Perhaps they need a detective ring set and, as you suggested in some topic, add some puzzles and such to zOMG. The detective ring set doubles as both combat and maybe has a ring or two that allows you to get clues for puzzles.

Honestly, though, I'm not totally sure on the restriction thing ether way. I still think they should be fair and go both ways on the restrictions but beyond that, I'm not sure restrictions should be as large as they are.

I think the major flaw is that we're only on Chapter 1. I hate to post something so short, but that's the only thing that I think is wrong with zOMG right now.

EDIT: That, and people keep playing the game even when they're bored with it.

@dFangX: Restricting up stops noobs, restricting down stops skilled players. While fairness is a good ideal, I think it makes sense not to implement it here D:

@grounderous: It could be a case of a game unfinished, I don't know. I don't remember the last time I played a game in Beta.

As for the horrors of power leveling, I hope the opposition realizes that no boss is required except Otami and you can get help to do that. So no, powerleveling isn't the devil. Val already nailed reasons to go back and blow their heads off.

As is, if you are crewing with somebody too strong for an area, you get basically nothing. So just add that to quest credit. Not hard since they already do something like that with kicking you out.

rolleyes

If a crew member cons outside of say... blue/yellow, then no quests will credit? I guess that works, without being too restrictive.

Only concern would be it's intuitiveness... but I'm sure it could be explained plentifully at the start of the game.

Sorry for the late reply, I've been gone for a few days.

Maybe I'm not explaining myself well >~<

1. I'm fine with power-leveling, but I don't think you should get quest credit/orbs/gold for killing a boss that's purple to you (or letting a CL 10.0 kill it for you).

2. I'm worried that letting CL 10.0's kill a boss for you will become the norm. Like, every boss instance you go to, you expect that there will be CL 10.0's there willing to help you. If that were the case, then I think most people would eventually just let the CL 10.0 help them rather than try to actually fight the boss.

Do you see what I'm trying to say? >~<

3. I wasn't saying that leveling wasn't intuitive. That was in reference to my KKD example. It has just as many restrictions as the current system (actually, more), and selecting 'easy, normal, or hard' is more intuitive than knowing what your current CL means in relation to the boss and suppressing/leveling up accordingly. In addition, it forces people to overlevel for an easier fight. So, those who prefer to select "easy mode" lose out, while those who prefer to overlevel benefit... You've solved one problem but created another, essentially.

------

"If a crew member cons outside of say... blue/yellow, then no quests will credit? I guess that works, without being too restrictive."

^ I like where this idea is going...

I guess after thinking about it more, I'm fine with the idea of overleveling, but I don't think you should be able to get quest credit for killing a purple boss (I mentioned this earlier). What if quest credit was only given if the animated conned blue-yellow to your crew? That way, newbies can still get help from higher CL players (within reason), players have the choice of overleveling, players looking for a challenge can fight a boss that cons red to them, and anybody can go back and kill duneslam at CL 10.0.

When you walk into a lair, the game will make a check to see if anyone cons red and if anyone has the quest. If both conditions are met, a message will display that warns the crew that quest credit will not be given.

I haven't thought about this idea much. Are there problems to it? (I'm sure there are >__> wink The only real restriction is you can't get quest credit for killing a purple boss, which seems reasonable (too me at least. Maybe you disagree). Also, don't judge me if this idea totally sucks, or has been mentioned before ;o;

Personally, I can't really say that there's just one flaw. I know the entry doesn't particularly state it, but it implies that there is one major flaw doing the "damage".

To me, the "lack of end game content" is a fundamental flaw of all MMOs. Because developers will never be able to keep up with the fanbase in terms of cranking out content, there is always going to be that pool of end gamers that has nothing to do. I think Gaia's developers realize this (Given Qix has been making games for a long time, and plays them besides), and thus introduce the much debated topic in here: End game content is the entire game.

The problem with this is that as DeathWyrm says, none of it is new. If I spent days/weeks in the Village Greens getting those damn mushroom heads back in November of last year, what's going to make it anymore fun to go back now besides that I can now blast them all to hell with one shot? Except, doing that gets me nothing, since they all con purple now. The only way to go back and re-experience stuff is to gimp yourself. While you say in the entry that granted, very few/no other games allow you to do this, I believe that there is a reason. People don't want to make themselves weaker to experience content, that defies the entire rest of the game spent making yourself stronger. So in the end, there's nothing new except the mini-events (If you haven't played them)... Except you have to gimp yourself to experience those too, which puts many people off, myself included.

However, I don't think that no endgame content is the bigger problem, as that exists in all MMOs and yet they thrive for years just by gradually bringing new content to the table. I think that as you pointed out, the restrictions are the bigger problem. I touched on this at the end of my last paragraph with the mini events. To experience anything except... 2? Bosses and one area, you have to reduce your strength once you hit CL 10. There's literally no point in getting to CL 10 beyond competionism or bragging rights, since you can do everything else at CL 8 or lower. When you do make it to the "top tier", you find that to do anything but one instance over and over, you get to become weaker again, thus negating all of your hard work.

The Dev team seems to want to make this game as fair and fun as possible, but in creating an arguably entirely new level/class/power system they are running into problems that they don't know how to solve "properly". The result is restrictions galore that they hope will improve the overall game experience. The problem then seems to be that the players do not agree.

@OMFG Taylor: 1) Fair enough. 3nodding
2) I agree that that could happen... I'm starting to wonder though, is it such an issue? Especially once we start trying to drain away the supply of C.L. 10.0s (by addressing the issue).
3) Depends how precise you're being, and how afraid of dying you are. If you want to know how tough she is in comparison.. try fighting her? It's fairly intuitive that if you get your a** kicked, your too weak. xd

Regarding that idea... I could live with that. Actually, I could quite agree with that. Even extend it to Badges. You kills only count if they at least con blue. That way there's an encouragement for badge farmers to suppress, even slightly. I would suggest that maybe a con red count as well however.

@Gaidin: Yes... there was an implication that it was one big flaw.

There's certainly an aspect of the player mentality of it. We're used to playing a linear game where once you are strong, you stay strong. To that end, I would guess that introducing the suppression system as part of the storyline and letting people get used to it would be a good idea.

I think some players disagree compulsively xd Would you say then that a hint of content geared towards C.L. 9.0+ (say... PvP?) would relieve some of these problems then?

One thing Taylor... A lot of people like to play their own game. A majority of people aren't going to just wait for somebody else to do it for them. Hell, I didn't have a problem leveling myself up to deal with my own problems. A lot of people I know didn't have that problem either. True there will be people just wanting a bump along but a decent majority will just crew up or do it themselves.

Gaidin pretty stated it. People don't like to gimp themselves, at least a lot of them don't. It defeats the point. Weeks or days to get to CL 10... Just to be told to suppress and act like it is a reward.

I understand the idea of restriction for the basic areas but I am still boggled to all hell about instances being limited. Let alone the death of the God Run, that is going to keep pissing me off for a while.

Inevitably, I find part of the problem is that CL 10 seems to be a target for exclusion in new content and being told to suppress isn't really the wonderful prize people believe it is. The other part, the Bigger part if you will, is that we are in Chapter 1. A lot of forgiving has to be done at this stage because we are in Chapter 1 and it isn't even out of Beta yet. I think the system will look much better on the whole when the game is done or has at least four chapters worth of content out.

Unfortunately that is a pie in the sky kind of thinking that I hate subscribing to. I would like some hope now with something besides a spit in the face whenever new content is added. That said, I am hoping to see a new wave of rings with a number of redundancies to help people match theme, much like our items. New areas and monsters to keep things flowing with plot to match, etc.

I believe my last shred of hope is the nebulous idea of new areas and rings giving us a broader spectrum on CL thus pulling the underwear out of developer cracks thus a possible relaxation of a**l fixation on restriction. xd

There are other games where you could gimp yourself.

In Final Fantasy XI, you could "level sync" yourself to a lower level person so that you could level together. It was really useful.

Val - Yeah, mentality definitely has something to do with it. The mentality comes from the game progression too though, not just our normal way of doing things. If the game incorporated more content where suppression was just a normal part of doing many things, then the idea of doing so wouldn't be as bad to most. Personally I'd still mostly abhor it, simply because I see little point in getting to the "ultimate goal" if that newfound power then has no use.

As for more content quieting the "disturbance in the force" known as long time CL 10 players... At this point I think it would help some, yes. But given it's been nearly a year (Regardless of the Beta title, the game has been available a year), people have been so set in the idea that "there is nothing for CL 10's to do" that I don't think the complaining would stop for very long. It would be a step in the right direction though, and of course there is the fact that the game isn't technically released publicly to consider. My only hope that is if they do release content for the truly end game group, that it be made with solo players in mind as well, and not heavily slanted towards crews like the last SS update (Though that's another issue entirely).

Ya, even introducing it early might only serve to cause more rage quitting than complaint stopping. Think about it, imagine going to CL 3 after hours of grinding only to be told to dumb down to CL 1.5 or some such. Then you have this happen multiple times so eventually you learn to hate leveling because it just leads to another source of tedium where you constantly have to check what level you are to see if you are too tall or short for the fight. rolleyes

I have personally found that mini events tend to piss off a lot of new players. Sure, I deal with them just fine because I can faff about at any level with a ring selection that I can peruse to select something just right to fight the good fight. Every time I see an event, I see a group of people milling about at a null just waiting for it to end so they can begin playing again.

There was such a rift in the beginning of the mini events because a number of CL 10 players finally had something new to do and they didn't care if they had to suppress. Meanwhile other CL 10 players were like... "Great, end game content that won't let me use what I earned at end game." Thus sparking the entire gruesome schism. Basically it was end game content that wasn't meant to be end game. And now it is end game content that you won't even get any loot for. Now they are just bugger all annoyances interrupting whatever it is you are doing at the time.

So yea, I am with Gaidin in that I am not so desperate that any cookies tossed under the guise of something new will satisfy me if it constantly denigrates the effort I made in the first place.

Here is my honest suggestion. Stop, simply stop, trying to overcrowd chapter 1 and future chapters. Imagine if there are mini events in every damn area from here on out. Perhaps you like the idea of random suppression events at every area until we hit the final end but it sounds like a war of attrition against my sanity. The idea of having to worry about my CL and ring load out constantly while I am just trying to farm already makes me prematurely grit my teeth.

Don't get me wrong, I do like the mini events... For all of the first five times... Then they become an annoying guest who shows up, eats your food, kicks you in the toe, and then runs out when you finally get the sense to do something about it like look for your brass knuckles.

"managers tactless" Hehe, silly captcha.

@DWN: That's an interesting point. They maybe shouldn't have released the items while the high C.L. crowd is flooding Chapter 1... maybe wait for the high C.L. to be in Chapter 2, then flesh out Chapter 1.

@Devek Scott: Oh right. I played before that so I completely forgot about that one.

@Gaidin: Hmm. Combo attack; get the mentality working, while offering some more incentives to reach said final goal. Ideas, they are a-coming.

@DWN: Oh god, I hate those mini-events. They're fun enough if you've got a few friends there who know what they're doing, but when you're the only player on the map who knows that standing there is not helpful.... Ugh.

It kind of feels like they're out of touch with the community on that point. They spent months because it would be "fun", and now a lot of players actively avoid them.

I think I agree. Rather then keep juicing up chapter 1 areas with more content to do while stronger players are still around, they should have waited and added that stuff in to give PURPOSE for the higher CLs to still visit those areas LATER. We've played them so much now that most of us don't want to go.

And of the events, Otami is the only really annoying one my opinion. There's no way to end it. You just have to keep fighting the animated till time runs out... and less you get a decent number of players, it gets hard as ever Tom, d**k, and Harry runs in and out, attacking what ever, then vanishing or dieing. Clutch and Gruckens are the only two similar to this but CLutch their is a limit to how many Clutches are out at a time and Grucken you don't need any skill to play. The rest of the events, not including orb spills, are just kill the monsters before time runs out.

I wouldn't mind mini events in future zones so long as they weren't as crowd needed. Most events you need a crowd of people in order to complete. I'm all for team building but come on, if you can't complete an event with atleast six people, the standard for a crew, I feel you are just asking too much. Again, maybe some smaller events in later areas like, if we get a snow covered mountain terrain, some Yetis come down and start attacking. Have them be Yellow and let a single player or two be capable of taking down one yeti, with like 10 total. I don't know: throwing ideas out.

Another bother is the fact that its almost zOMGs one year anniversary and yet their is no sign of hitting that expansion. I am hoping to see the expansion BY Halloween atleast. If not, I'll be greatly annoyed. >.<

@dFangX: If by "expansion" you mean "Chapter 2". You're going to blow a blood vessel. I'd be honestly surprised if they've even started on it come new year.

I think another fundamental flaw isn't the game itself but people's perception of the game.

I'm talking about the rings. Rings, when the game came out, were four things: your special abilities, your weapons, your CL, and a collectible. Collectible currently can't happen do to the market place lock down but I still think we might get a ring trade system at some future date but till then, they are still weapon, skill, and CL.

Now, an argument I've heard a dozens times now is that rings shouldn't be sold in cash shop because it wouldn't be fair, because we shouldn't have to buy our skills. My argument is why not? Other games do it: Adventure Quest sells weapons that have skills attached to them. Fusion Fall sells the weapons but the special abilities you need to find in the game and even then, you are paying to play for the other 32 skills after the free portion of the game. And while I don't know the details of other MMOs, most games, single, multi, or online, have places where you can buy generic skills or weapons will skills attached to them.

And if the devs had no future plans to make ether shop or cash shop rings, why then did they originally have the rings purchasable in the marketplace? Point is, with the skills we have now, we can easily continue to play threw the game and we wouldn't NEED any new rings to likely get threw Chapter 2. Considering that, why then COULDN"T a shop or cash shop rings be made for rings we WANT? Again, its all a matter of need and want. We don't need more rings as we can likely beat the next chapters with out any. But we want more rings. We'll likely get plenty of new rings we can get in game so why not let Gaia sell 3 or 4 rings to let players who want to pay pay?

Again, its a big argument and I could go on talking for awhile. But I'll stop here and let you voice your opinion on this subject. *looks around nervously, hoping DWN doesn't find the post*

@dFangX: While I'm not entirely opposed to the idea... Something doesn't feel right about it. Maybe it's my inner gamer rearing it's pimpled head.

Maybe not have -rings- for sale, but rather packs which can be equipped in game to change the effect of your rings. G'hi mods or something like that.

That way, you still have to earn the ring, but you can customise it as per your idea.

Yes, yes the game is flawed. Not necessarily because of CL caps in, and of themselves. The over use of said CL caps to try and solve all the games problems is the problem in my opinion. The abundance of CL caps prevented the dev's from finding a better solution to solving the problems. Yes the game does need more content geared twords end gamers, but there is enough general content to prevent the alienation of CL 10.0s. I would have the devs to improve the late game in order to free up the restrictions on early events though.


Oh and the fact that this isn't really a beta, it's just an excuse for a bugged early release.

@Val: I could see that. Maybe something that gives the ring an additional effect or able to place two rings onto it to gain a whole new power. I suppose that be less likely to upset Gaian's as a whole.

@Creas: Nice to see you're the only one who posted here from that thread crying

Rather than new end-game content then, would you support the introduction of quests to get people used to the idea of using suppression. Relying on the community not to cheat, say.

@dFangX: Not additional effects. That would be unfair. But different Animations was what I was thinking. That way you get a ring system that meets (to an extent) the freedom of the Avatar system.

Of course... what is the point in releasing later rings then? Most of the new rings possible would only be thematically different. D:

@ val: I would indeed support that. I would also support the come back of the old sewer system, and better tutorials.

I kind of like how they require you to revisit the areas you've already completed.

And I was going to type more but my teacher just got here so I'll edit later if I remember.

@Val: Sounds like that idea has its flaw then. Sense agreed, many later rings will be nothing more then re-animated versions of the existing rings. So what would be the point? :/

Again, I'm not going to say I'm a full on supporter on the idea to include cash shop rings, its simply I feel it is something that is possible in future updates as, again, as much as Qixter wants to keep the game free, we all know at some point, like regular Gaia, they'll start adding more G-Cash stuff for game use and less GOOD free stuff. And, of course, to make people more likely to buy, they'll make the ring effects for bought rings better then the regular rings with maybe some catch to try and be fair but still not enough to detour people who can afford them to buy the rings and start cookie cutter sets. It's sad but probably true. -.-

@Creas: Yes... A better tutorial system. I think that could be arranged. Also, I removed your double post for you ^^

@Jikoniau: Alrighty ^^. Yeah, to an extent it's nice, but I think it's an overdone gimmick.

@dFangX: We can only hope that Qix has enough gamer sentiment not to allow overpowered cash rings.

As for the changing theme.... I dunno. If the options were still limited there might be things to do. Also, since the game gets less casual as the chapters progress, we might see more advanced rings coming.

EDIT: Oh, and sometime tonight I'll be writing up the next journal entry, which will detail my suggestions as to how this might be combated. It will include:

Late-Game incentives. Post-Endgame early chapter content. Suppression based quests. Tutorials about the less intuitive features about zOMG!.

Etc...

I saw that Fang... stare

Adventure Quest is a game I dropped like an ugly baby whose face split into the Predator when I realized the game was hounding me with random events and then telling me that I had to be a paying member to get it. Once or twice... Fine. Then I got hit again... and again.... and again...

The ugly predator face splitting baby was dropped and I remember the incident out of pure and bile filled hatred colored spite.

One of the annoyances of MMOs is when they try to mix free and paid. It basically becomes a level of condescending that makes you either max out your funds or drop the game entirely. Making players pay for skills is a quick way to alienate your base.

So if they want to sell booster gems or some s**t that augment your rings, that would be fine as long as they weren't soulbound. Hell, I would dig up some funds to grab a life leech gem for my Slash or Hack Ring. But an entire ring/skill? Not so much.

Cash Shop add ons will only work without soulbinding, at least as so far as being "fair" goes.

"handbag Battle Plan" XD Awesome capcha

about the soul binding the problem was the exchange of level ups in it self .

the trading off skills is not a problem seens in a way its the same as in other mmo trading weapons , pets/summons , books , ect.... , but the thing that zomg docent have is variate whe currently have only 40 rings un like other games who have millions of weapons and or summons and in the off case small variate but whit a interesting custom growth summon system ( phantasy star )

and to fix the problem whe would need (a) a ring zing or (b) mass produce 200 new rings and last and the least favorite but easiest (c) close all ring exchange indefinitively

the restrictions well every mmo has them ( specially the free ones to make you pay money for there special privileges ) weather it is whit weapons having level restrictions dieng having horrible penaltys and mi most hated off all in the universe and the only reason i quit many mmo i start playing weapons having durability that you have to fix but sometimes risk losing the weapon forever wen fixing.

now what whe can do seens the game is in beta is well give constrictive criticism a.k.a complain , half the reason the forum was made was for that in the first place

I keep suggesting it but what about making a trade system that would allow players to trade zOMG goods (loot, rings, recipes, orbs, g-cash items) for other zOMG goods? That way they can keep rings locked from market but, depending on what ever else is added thats soulbound from Marketplace, allow players to trade between one another. It would allow some freedom to what they could add in that the devs feel would have to be soulbound or not.

Also, I like the gen idea. Like real rings, add in extra gems to make the ring look better, though in this case let the ring have additional skills. Like Vasu from Zelda: Oracle of Ages/Seasons.

i suggested lung ago as a ring zinc having recipes that use your rings to make them and get an item in the theme of that ring

@DWN: Hmmm. Booster gems. Now that could be fun. And yeah, soulbinding them would be definitely uncool. *coughpowerupscough*

Also, lawl, dFang got snapped.

@rafakun: It wasn't just the levels. That could have been bypassed by putting it as C.L. 1.0 when listed on the marketplace. There was something else behind soulbinding.

Which interestingly, when taken in to account with the rest of zOMG!... I really don't think the devs like their game. It -feels- like they're really railroading you into playing it. Almost like it doesn't have anything to keep you there if they don't.

Every MMO has some restrictions, but few do it like this. Normally the restrictions ease as you level. Here, they get heavier as you level.

@dFangX: I don't think that really addresses the reasons devs soulbind things ._.;;

@rafakun: Ring sink, I think you mean. And yeah, a ring sink would be pretty neat. Raxa suggested something like it awhile back.

like i sead tha variate of rings in the game is to small for any ring to be really rare so the prices were dropping catastrophically to an even cheaper level then recipe items


the only 2 ways to make ring trade able and keep the rings from being to easy to get even to a newb whit no cash to buy cash items and exchange them for a quick gold mountain are well mass production of rings can not be done in such a short amount of time and the ring sink well it could but you know again not as easily as yost sealing the trading of rings

and not every restriction becomes easy to bear as you grow in other mmo

no mater what level you are weapon durability is still bullshit and some even restricts the amount of items you can carry all at once and in every mmo as you grow you will need the space in the inventory

@rafakun: I dunno that that is a problem though. Especially if you can't level from it. Unless you're saying that to have all strategies available to you, you have to spend hours working on it.

Weapon Durability isn't really a restriction, especially if you can repair it. But yeah, it can get annoying...

the thing is 99% of the mmo whit durability restrictions tend to make it so that there is a chance so that the weapon gets permanently broken or gets part of its durability permanently cut out wen repairing

and about the ring variate being a problem it issint but it also is

i can guess it is to Q
i can see that he likes people having to work for almost every thing and seing the current tutorial were you get a solar ray and get you butt kicked out of the sewers whit only point and click as your only leason in the hole thing that he considers every thing hand holding

i can see he wants people to play for a serten period of time and the hving to get all 40 rings seems to be one of the ways to secure this

@Rafakun: Yes... and that's a huge problem. The first thing they teach us in Software Engineering is that its the users that you design the program for. Not yourself.

Soulbinding is a simple matter of... they are greedy. Pure and simple. They want the money and don't want people who aren'tpaying for the items to get them.

I'll never understand soulbinding unused power ups. They can simply stop having the game drop them if it is such a big deal. What would happen is that people would still ******** buy the damn things to sell. The gaia cash would still flow, if anything the gold price on the marketplace would mean a constant demand for them thus assuring more cash flow by either personal users or secondary vendors.

Even the greed excuse is stupid as it stops people from being secondary vendors who would buy a large supply of the ******** things...